Japanese Scene

[Mr.-0]

I've herd alot of people saying that M2K's the best player in the world. But in that same conversation somebody said, " yeah, but we don't know about any of the japanese players yet." Are they any good? I've never herd any talk about them or seen any youtube videos of them. I wonder if they have had some major tournies. And if it is majorly competetive, who's the best and why havn't we done international tournies yet? Plz discuss.

 

[Kitamerby]

Japan is sorta... behind the American metagame in terms of efficiency. They apparently don't like playing gay, meaning that while they probably have more viable characters, The pros in America will cream the Japanese "pros."

 

[Mr.-0]

Hmm.. sad. They havn't lowered themselves to playing gay yet. I made that dicision when I joinded smasboards.

 

[Tamoo]

Yeah, they play much more agressively, which is more entertaining to watch, but would get owned in the US
heres a couple of vids i found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81vSP40sd14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hXrEf_o5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUcNRz2kmQ0

 

[Bellioes]

I heard that they even consider Fox an even matchup with MK (YUI has such an awesome Fox ) I dont if its cause there are good Fox players in japan or the MKs just suck Whatever it is, watch the Japanese players on youtube (YUI, Kite and Bombsoldier to name a few) and judge for yourself.

 

[Brinzy]

Considering how fast they play... do they rank the slower characters to be the worst ones? Not that this doesn't correlate to an extent here or anything.

 

[wh1te5had0w]

I'm sure when (if) brawl get's put on the MLG they will start playing more cheap to win

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I think that we are unfairly judging the Japanese scene based on hearsay and a few videos ;0

 

[Mr.-0]

Ya, maybe. but w] seriously: Who's the best in japan. YUI?

 

[CRASHiC]

The Japan scene is viewer based.
The American scene is player based.

 

[Mr.-0]

? what does that mean?

 

[Gaudeo]

It means that in Japan they play to put on a good show for the audience, so they don't chaingrab or plank unless it looks impressice, and don't repeat strategies for an extended period of time. By contrast, in North America, we play to win, and will do whatever it takes, no matter how boring it is to watch, in norder to do so. That's why the Japanese matches are so aggressive and fast whereas many North American Matches are just campfests or players repeating the same combos over and over again until they win.

 

[Mr.-0]

Ahh.... I see. so that pretty much means that the best of japan won't beat the best of NA, right?

 

[CRASHiC]

Yes, but the American player, if it uses such tactics, will be given a bad label in the Japan scene.

 

[Brinzy]

I think we should quit saying that they "won't" or "can't" beat NA players. It's not like they won't adapt to win as well. If I'm playing aggressively and I want to win, but my opponent is crushing that tactic, I'm not gonna play that way for the next nine stocks so I can lose due to stupidity.

 

[Mr.-0]

I suppose your right.

 

[z3r0C0oL]

Japanese dont play as gay as Americans.

Here, we simply play to win, no matter how gay.

The Japanese actually fight it out....

Imagine if boxing were like this, and a US boxer tagged his opponent to score a point, then ran away for the next 9 rounds? lol

 

[Dekar173]

Japanese dont play as gay as Americans.

Here, we simply play to win, no matter how gay.

The Japanese actually fight it out....

Imagine if boxing were like this, and a US boxer tagged his opponent to score a point, then ran away for the next 9 rounds? lol

QFT.

Brawl won't be picked up by any of the national tourney running organizations at the rate it's going. Sure, EVO wants us, but that's just because the Smash scene as a whole is huge in comparison to other fighter scenes. What we need is to stop playing so gay, and start playing to both entertain AND to win (cough ban infinites if it's on livestream, otherwise I really don't care).

Let's play flashy, that ****'s fun.

 

[blukberry]

Yeah but seriously, there arent too many flashy things you can do in Brawl. The most technical ATs in Brawl look stupid if you dont know what goes on behind the AT. Take yoshis DR for example. He just slides while attacking. Its not even that far (it seems equal to like Peachs WD in melee). But the technique is seriously hard to perform consistently with normal controls. I say that Brawl is always gonna look slow even if we stop playing gay. Its not like its combo happy counterpart melee.

 

[GHNeko]

You could always like...script a fight to make it look cool. hahahaha.

 

[nevershootme]

Japan = Be respectful or be hated for being disrespectful. in essence, play with honor

America = Cheat to win, Just like Eddie Guerrero would say.

 

[blukberry]

Japan always cared about honor.
but America just says screw it. "I want my happy meal"

 

[Big-Cat]

Japan always cared about honor.
but America just says screw it. "I want my happy meal"

Actually, Japan usually just says, "Screw it. RAN RAN RUU!"

 

[adumbrodeus]

Japan = Be respectful or be hated for being disrespectful. in essence, play with honor

America = Cheat to win, Just like Eddie Guerrero would say.

So, how come I don't see M2K using IDC in all his bouts (tournaments where it's not banned exempted)?


Cheating is violating the rules, so who in the American scene cheats?

 

[blukberry]

lol right KUma

@adumbrodeus He means being cheap/gay (camping and planking for example)
Cheating is just... going too far

 

[Staco]

Japanese play much more defensive than americans!!!
They play as gay as Americans, maybe gayer sometimes.
There are matches of Rain MK vs. Kyte Wario and the matches are like 6 mins or longer, because they are jumping around and nobody wants to get hit.
They aren much more aggressive.
There are matches of Snake vs. Falco and they both camp for 8 minutes.
And they both camp all the time and dont try to go into close fight.

And they use some tricks, which Americans dont use.
I wouldnt say for sure, that americans are better.

Does this Snake look bad to you???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBVjU9US9iA&feature=channel_page
For me he seems to be better than Ally!!!

Does this two players look bad to you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C3lYwqj4K0&feature=channel_page
They play their chars very good!

Japanese doesnt play aggressive, they play as gay as americans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY&feature=channel_page
Camping for 8 mins.
And there are a lot of MK vs. Snake FD matches, where Snake camps for 7 mins and it works, lol.

Ah so, Wario chaingrab at Ganondorf isnt gay? Of course Japanese players play gay, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8augsg2Ybdg&feature=channel_page
And so ****ing good. I dont know a video where some americans is ****** a Ganondorf like this.

More vids: http://www.youtube.com/user/ssbbmania1
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=wadastin&view=videos

And Japanese arent that bad, some of them are pretty amazing and I think some of them are much better than the Americans are.

one example: I dont know an american falco, which is using laser tricks at the edge like rain is doing with falco.
And I never saw an american Wario using his bike vs. Shiek needles as a shield like Kite is doing in one of the videos.

Japanese arent the type of player who play aggressive and simply run in their enemys (only bombsoldier does this). They often play much campier/deffensive than americans do.

 

[GHNeko]

*snip*

You're killing any chance people have at playing with honor. Shush.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah thats true. In melee, the Japenese players were definitely slower and more careful than the Americans flashy playstyle. Im guessing they havent changed with the game. But Ive seen vids of YUI and hes actually really aggressive. Thats probably why he gives the Japanese MKs trouble and why they consider Fox vs MK a 50:50 matchup. There not used to people playing like that

 

[GHNeko]

Send samboner over there. Rofl.

 

[Staco]

Fox cant play deffensive vs meta or marth, because his laser isnt good in this game.
Look their Falcos and Snakes to see their campy style.

Look this Wario, he is spacing so good. And look his clever use of the bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik0Sq5Jvjbw&feature=channel_page

Look this Falco, he is doing edge tricks like the one at the beginning very often and good, watch the campy match vs. Snake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiqTv5mU5Wc&feature=channel_page

Isnt this Bowser nasty doing this Cypher trick?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81vSP40sd14&feature=channel_page
Never saw an american bowser doing such a trick.

This match is wifi but look at DDD how perfect he is Power Shielding, WiFi!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRoWxjwdqHE&feature=channel_page

Ever saw a MK teching that good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol6Zb8knkMQ&feature=channel_page

Look at all this tricks american players doesnt use.

And remember the matches Ally lost to M2K?
He got hold upwards by M2K for 20-80% every time, if he tried to come from upward with Cypher.
Japanese players never have problems with this, because they use B-Reversals. And they use this since November and earlier. And Ally still didnt use it to come down savely, but it works.

For me americans doesnt seem to be better than japanese. Maybe they are, but nobody knows, because if you watch some of this guys they play very very good. Watch the perfect spacing of Kites Wario.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah Ive already seen them. But I dont like watching them (almost as bad as 2 MKs planking ) I just wanted to say that not all Japanese players are as campy as the rest. Maybe its cause YUI uses Fox that hes aggressive but still, Ive seen campy Foxs
And whos samboner??

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah Ive already seen them. But I dont like watching them (almost as bad as 2 MKs planking ) I just wanted to say that not all Japanese players are as campy as the rest. Maybe its cause YUI uses Fox that hes aggressive but still, Ive seen campy Foxs
And whos samboner??

AiB Celeb. IIIRC, one of the best Fox's on their ladder, if not the best.

 

[Mr.-0]

So: back to one of the original questions: who's the best japanese player? And I agree that they play semi- gay. There was quite a few CG's on disk's behalf.

 

[Snare]

both japan and america have pretty good players. a souther vs ally snake ditto match would be freakin amazing. im pretty sure rain is suppose to be the best mk in japan (?) i dont think m2k would have much trouble with him though.

you won't know for sure how both our styles will clash until you get some matches between both countries.

 

[GHNeko]

Quick, someone make an OC3.

 

[adumbrodeus]

@adumbrodeus He means being cheap/gay (camping and planking for example)
Cheating is just... going too far

Obviously, it was a roundabout comment on his misuse of the word, by using cheating (and to a lesser extent, being cheap/gay) you linguistically duck the value debate about whether it's a valid tactic.

That's because that word (and the others to a lesser extent) have a linguistic "ungoodness" attatched to them, in other words, people react negatively to the word itself inherently, which biases towards people to a certain side. In other words, it's preferential language. I mean, come on, you don't wanna cheat do you? So why are you planking? That's the linguistic effect.


Americans do everything within the rules to win, just as Japanese players should (and I assume to a great degree, are). It is simply not cheating, cheap is meaningless, and gay... it's neither happy nor likes tactics of the same gender as itself.



So, why shouldn't we use tactics like edgehogging and chaingrabbing?

 

[Staco]

I think the best japanese are:
Bombsoldier
Rain
Kite!!!
Souther
and maybe Gano

then there are some other guys like:
Yone

 

[Bellioes]

Obviously, it was a roundabout comment on his misuse of the word, by using cheating (and to a lesser extent, being cheap/gay) you linguistically duck the value debate about whether it's a valid tactic.

That's because that word (and the others to a lesser extent) have a linguistic "ungoodness" attatched to them, in other words, people react negatively to the word itself inherently, which biases towards people to a certain side. In other words, it's preferential language. I mean, come on, you don't wanna cheat do you? So why are you planking? That's the linguistic effect.


Americans do everything within the rules to win, just as Japanese players should (and I assume to a great degree, are). It is simply not cheating, cheap is meaningless, and gay... it's neither happy nor likes tactics of the same gender as itself.



So, why shouldn't we use tactics like edgehogging and chaingrabbing?

True. So what should I call tactics like Planking; Unflashy, unfun, irritating. I mean come on, noone wants to see 8 minutes of 2 MKs Planking -_-
And its so hard to understand on the internet when people are really asking a question cause they dont know or when theyre asking just to make a point

 

[TheStig]

i thought that they did plank. didn't they come up with the 70 ledge grab rule and don't they still timeout matches when they have a 10 min time limit?

 

[KevinM]

This thread is all hearsay, and therefore it doesn't really serve a purpose sorry guys.