Jigglypuff for Top Tier?

[-Jumpman-]

Cool story bros.

I am completely misguided after reading some of these posts.










Look, I'm sorry if I play SSBM REALLY REALLY ANNOYING AND GAY, but why is it that this whole "banning jiggs" thing wasn't incited when Mango was destroying all the tournaments with her? Regardless of the fact that he pretty much mains Falco.

It's unfair. I train for weeks and I get 2nd place at the biggest Melee tournament ever and 3rd at the next largest tournament ever, only to see that people want to ban the character I use.

HEY GUYZ I'LL GO ALL FALCO AT A TOURNAMENT

OH LOOK I GOT 2ND YAY
BUT WAIT MANGO PLAYS FALCO AND HE GOT 1ST
AND LOOK ANOTHER FALCO GOT 17TH???
PREPOSTEROUS!!!
LET'S BAN FALCO












this is bull****.

It's stuff like this that preoccupies me and makes me question the validity of the forums, or even the community itself.

My secondaries are awful. Last night I played Capn Crunch, my OLD training partner who got me good at the game, and my secondaries were destroying him because he didn't know the matchups too well. Then I went Jiggs, and we were going FIFTY-FIFTY. This guy doesn't even place in tourneys. It JUST SO HAPPENS that he plays Fox/Jiggs matchup CORRECTLY and doesn't whine about her.


Mango could care less if Jiggs gets banned. He's actually got 4 other secondaries WHICH HE TRAINS WITH. You guys would succumb to his every request. Fanboy bull****.

NOTE that I took Mango's Jiggs to 5th game WF, My set vs. M2K was SUPER CLOSE, and nearly all my bracket matches went to THE LAST GAME.

IT ISN'T IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT JIGGS.

On the topic, Jiggs COULD be top tier, but in reality,

WHO GIVES A **** WHAT TIER SHE IS

Will being top tier make her magically better? Does having a Sticky make a tournament more legit? It's nothing more than a title, and I take back considering anything I've said regarding orders of tiers. It's a pointless argument.


It's OBVIOUS that people don't like my playstyle. I'm sorry, I can't do anything about it. I was playing Sheik and Falco and a bit of Fox for 3 hours last night, mostly shiek.

It's just not the same.

If Jiggs gets banned, I'll have to pick up a new character, LEARN EVERY ****ING MATCHUP ALL OVER AGAIN, LOSE CONSECUTIVELY AT TOURNAMENTS, LOSE MORAL, and probably quit smash and become a yodeler or some ****.

Yo DarkRain, Falcon's banned, so pick up Fox.

Hey Jman, we're banning Fox, but I'M SURE YOU'RE GOOD WITH SECONDARIES because CLEARLY you're good with fox, so it shouldn't be a problem amirite?

What's good, HMW? BTW Doc is banned, so just transfer all that skill to Shiek. IT'S EASY RIGHT?













no.


I do not and will not play other characters as good as I play jiggs.

I just happen to be a person that learns quickly, and I have training with MANY different characters due to my diverse crew, WATO.


Anyways I'm going to Disney now, TLDR JIGGS IS NOT THE BEST CHARACTER AND OTHER PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW THE MATCHUP YET.

Better start trainin' *****

 

[Reaver197]

I haven't read most of this thread, but shouldn't invoking the name of Colbol pretty much finish off this argument?

 

[Dark Sonic]

lol, yeah dude. Not that Marth needs that dumb **** to beat Jiggs anyway :-P

we'll duel soon.

Nah, I'm not going for slightly in Marth's favor. I'm going for 100-0 JIGGS NEVER WINS EVAAARR!

Then I'm gonna start catching turnips, stichfaces and bombombs ;p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptdQEyJn78&feature=related&fmt=18

Are you going to NOOB 1? It's apparently going to be the new gigabits.

 

[gm jack]

If you don't enjoy playing, then why play?

As with any game, often there is a "best choice". Either players find ways to deal with it, or the community takes balancing/banning action. So far, jiggs isn't totally destroying the metagame. Fights are still interesting, apart from jiggs dittos for some people. It just so happens that two of the best players at the moment main jiggs.

Camp more, play more gay and do everything in your power to stop jiggs' strength. Mango is an incredibly good player, so wins by him with jiggs don't mean so much, as his does well with many characters, but jiggs is his best, so obviously get pulls out for finals etc.

Now, Hbox could just be another incredibly good player. It could be a player of his caliber using another character could do as well, and that players of different character having got tech skill down to such a passive level that they can focus on tactics and reading to the extent of these two. However, if more and more jiggs players start joining the ranks and taking top placings, then maybe there would be a case for a rules change. Maybe you reintroduce a couple of stages that are particularly gay to jiggs, or an outright ban if people start picking up jiggs and placing in a month or so.

Either way, jiggs is a solid character, certainly one of the best in the game, and players either need to find ways to deal with superior players using a character which exaggerates the player being better (a close match in terms of play for play could be a 2 stock entirely down to rest) or find some way to deal with it.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Cool story bros.

TLDR JIGGS IS NOT THE BEST CHARACTER AND OTHER PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW THE MATCHUP YET.

1) guys jiggs shouldnt be banned thats ludicrous. if you want to ban a smash character go look at metaknight
2) hungrybox haters will hate thats what people do
3)the tier list does need to change and jiggs should move up from high tier (i think the new matchup chart should influence another tier list but w.e, just my opinion)
4)hungrybox dont let a few people misrepresent a generally awesome community

edit
5) sheik dittos are probably the lamest ditto there is

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hbox's post made me a fanboy

this thread is over. anyone who seriously feels like "discussing" things here is just trolling. i'm pretty sure that everyone who didn't get it before gets it now.

 

[holypho]

she isn't top tier guys wth!!!! the!! when she misses her rest she is open forever...

 

[john!]

she isn't top tier guys wth!!!! the!! when she misses her rest she is open forever...

/thread .

 

[Toobz]

/thread .

Please. We just need someone from the SBR to come in here and explain just what exactly their tier list is supposed to represent. We need some common ground so that we can come to an understanding.

 

[brg]

why is this thread still open? this thread is like people raging alone, arguing against a tree lol

Hbox's post made me a fanboy

this thread is over. anyone who seriously feels like "discussing" things here is just trolling. i'm pretty sure that everyone who didn't get it before gets it now.

pretty much it

 

[Charlesz]

strawhat is no joke. Jiggs is like the second best teams character.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Why puff thought? there is nothing broken about her not evem rest is grabs normally lead to kills, combos can lead to kills normally. di better avoid the rest she misses you laser 4.6 times upsmash really hard. you can even run away from her unlike most people.

if puff is broken

so are ICs grabs, fox shines, darkrain's falcon, a few other heavy chain throwing people, and anyone that could tech chase you to death. In fact everyone is uber broken then play because whatever your broken too.

But really rest is like ICs grabs and other stuff don't mess up and you won't have to worry about it. Ps everyone play better.

 

[Strong Badam]

what ?

 

[Animal]

Why puff thought? there is nothing broken about her not evem rest is grabs normally lead to kills, combos can lead to kills normally. di better avoid the rest she misses you laser 4.6 times upsmash really hard. you can even run away from her unlike most people.

if puff is broken

so are ICs grabs, fox shines, darkrain's falcon, a few other heavy chain throwing people, and anyone that could tech chase you to death. In fact everyone is uber broken then play because whatever your broken too.

But really rest is like ICs grabs and other stuff don't mess up and you won't have to worry about it. Ps everyone play better.[/QUOTE

like i said before, its just because people do not know the matchup yet. Im sure if the mango of ice climbers came along and started ****** every1 we would be having the same conversation about them. which is still stupid. Give it time.

 

[Toobz]

Why puff thought? there is nothing broken about her not evem rest is grabs normally lead to kills, combos can lead to kills normally. di better avoid the rest she misses you laser 4.6 times upsmash really hard. you can even run away from her unlike most people.

if puff is broken

so are ICs grabs, fox shines, darkrain's falcon, a few other heavy chain throwing people, and anyone that could tech chase you to death. In fact everyone is uber broken then play because whatever your broken too.

But really rest is like ICs grabs and other stuff don't mess up and you won't have to worry about it. Ps everyone play better.

OK I've changed my mind. Close thread now please.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

That was wobbles and chu dat I believe. Also I loved how I said heavy chain throws. The only thing I mis like about puffs are the lack of combos on her. But if we bought brinstar depths in we wouldn't have this problem

 

[choknater]

i think so many characters beat puff in a battle of trading hits. peach, ganon, sheik, ic's, heck maybe even luigi. you don't need to approach her, but just trade when she approaches. peach is good because she can approach with turnips, and she can spam a lot of them against puff.

in order to play a game of trades with spacies, i do a lot of stationary full hop bairs.

if ur playing that trading game just dont get rested

ic's do soooo much damage against puff, i tend to not really care if i get gayed, cuz i just try to stay in the lead if i get one. :D even popo alone can trade hits with puff and do fine. she edgeguards ic's too well though hahah, oh well. i just won't get knocked off the stage <3

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Can someone tell me what the verdict is on wobbling in the various regions?

 

[Blea Gelo]

Why is everyone forgetting Armada...I think he's better than Hungrybox (top2 = Mango and Armada) IMO. In fact when M2K gets his head back on and has confidence like he did against Hbox's puff he'll begin to catch on to Juan's gayness and ****... He almost beat his puff so yeah. M2K is a more skilled/knowledgeable player than Juan IMO....he just sucks at the matchup

BTW, who won that $50 MM b/w. ARMADA AND HUNGRYBOX

strawhat, parec que todos los queh ablamos espanol pensamos las cosas bienXD..

imba comment, dont bann jiggs.. mango is just to good.. armada will take him out, either m2k, or another good player

 

[Zatchiel]

Jiggz is too much 4 all of you....

 

[holypho]

Why puff thought? there is nothing broken about her not evem rest is grabs normally lead to kills, combos can lead to kills normally. di better avoid the rest she misses you laser 4.6 times upsmash really hard. you can even run away from her unlike most people.

if puff is broken

so are ICs grabs, fox shines, darkrain's falcon, a few other heavy chain throwing people, and anyone that could tech chase you to death. In fact everyone is uber broken then play because whatever your broken too.

But really rest is like ICs grabs and other stuff don't mess up and you won't have to worry about it. Ps everyone play better.

its alittle better than icecy's grab cuz you can seperate ICs, but you can't seperate jiggy from her rests : D

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

She does mess up your L-cancels or have projectile set-ups but yeah just an ex. plus puff gets punished more for missing a rest than ice climbers do for missing a grab. how about fox's shine he could inf combo them which isn't insanely hard to set-up likewise falco's pillaring which adds a lot of damage and can kill.

Really my point is other people have really good tactics too that one could say is broken but people can deal with it better. I will stop coming to this thread end eventing/morning/night/midday/or where ever you are in the time zone

 

[HoN3Y64]

don't stop coming icg, never stop coming.

 

[Zephynazo]

**** @ the noobs thinking Puff should be banned... "QUE life" - is all i have to say!

 

[wraith55]

1. Quit life if you think Jiggs should be banned. Come on guys, are we really considering banning a character because it is good? Mango and HBox are both great players, but so is M2K, Armada, JMan, Amsah, etc. and they don't play Puff. Less QQ more pewpew.

2. Tiers don't make a difference. Except for noobs who don't know the characters well, then tiers can be very beneficial.

3. That said, Puff, in my opinion, is definitely top tier. Tiers are based on tournament placings and matchups. Like Sean "the don" showed, Puff meets the qualifications for top tier. Also, there are other great puffs out there besides Mango and HBox (e.g. Raistlin and Darc) who consistently place well in major tournaments as well. I don't understand why she would not be considered top tier, especially thinking on how many Marth mains there were in the top 10 at Rom2, Genesis, Pound 4, etc. M2K plays mostly Sheik these days, and name another top Marth player. (Don't get me wrong, PKMVodka and G$ are awesome, but they are not top contenders, seriously though, no offense to either of these great players)

4. I'm going to say this again: Putting Puff in the top tier will not change anything about the game, so I don't know why everyone is getting all antsy about it. It's not going to make Jiggs less good, and it won't make it so Jiggs will be an easier matchup for you.

5. I think a big part of the reason Puff does so well at tournaments now is because people don't know the matchup that well yet. However, I do think they will learn. Puff is not broken. But she is a very good character and should definitely be in top tier.

 

[wowoduend]

Wait, banning Jiggly? wtf that sounds like a bad idea. She is light and easy to KO. She isn't too hard to beat.

I thought banning MK was a good idea long ago until i've seen a lot of players beating him. Then i learned that S tier characters are not impossible to beat. They play brokenly gay, but there are ways around it.

Banning characters is dumb now.

*continues trying to beat Sagat in Street Fighter 4*

 

[Turazrok]

Wait, banning Jiggly? wtf that sounds like a bad idea. She is light and easy to KO. She isn't too hard to beat.

I thought banning MK was a good idea long ago until i've seen a lot of players beating him. Then i learned that S tier characters are not impossible to beat. They play brokenly gay, but there are ways around it.

Banning characters is dumb now.

*continues trying to be Sagat in Street Fighter 4*

Don't post if you don't know what you're talking about. Jigglypuff is a very good character with an amazing punish and gimp game, with above average recovery as well. Not banworthy IMO though.

 

[n1000]

so I came back to this thread and thought I was rereading a page I glanced at earlier, nope...same arguments, different page. No one gives a **** about anyone else's posts. Good stuff.

 

[Inaphyt]

Someone said in the op that you should switch to zelda and kick jigglypuff for a kill at 30%, If a fully charged sheikh upsmash wont kill jiggz the toe wont.

Fox is a character of technical skill.

jiggz is a character of profound Knowledge. She should be top tier, considering it's been proven time and time again she can kill any character in the game.

What is there to discuss?

 

[t3h Icy]

Instead of whining to get Jigglypuff banned, learn the match-up instead.

Jigglypuff isn't as flashy, fun to watch or as interesting as other characters, but Jigglypuff is one of the most (if not THE most) tricky characters because her playstyle has to run off of the player's mindgames and adaptability. Think of Taj with Mewtwo; you're not fighting the character, you're fighting Taj, in the sense that anything effective he does is from superior spacing and predicting. Jigglypuff is like that, only with the addition of being a good character as well.

If a player can't use the appropriate playstyle or is more technical than strategic, Jigglypuff gets killed easily. Hungrybox and Mango are both incredibly smart players, and others like Darc and Raistlin, while not to their level, are also very intelligent players.

Also if you're annoyed by Jigglypuff playing gay, play gay back. Use Marth's Ftilt and Jab or use Fox's lasers and just run away. If you do your own thing with approaching, make a mistake and Jigglypuff capitalizes, that's your own fault for taking a risk.

And I'm still thinking Zelda would be one of the best characters against Jigglypuff since she has all the attributes to avoid Jigglypuff's advantages, but I don't know of any fantastic Zelda players.

 

[hoopspr226]

you know i have to deal with that same **** in brawl always *****ing about MK even though he's LESS dominant at the top level. When people MK ditto me I always 2-3 stock them, but I never get credit it's always wah I'mma ***** about MK even tho I get 3 stocked in dittos and don't place top 3 (with the other top 2 being snake and diddy)

Dude if you hate when people do it to you in regards to Metaknight, why are you doing the exact same thing to Hungrybox with Jigglypuff? That's just hypocrisy at its finest.


...Anyway, I think anyone with any sense knows that Jigglypuff is not good enough to warrant a ban. Maybe she's far more unpleasant to play against than any other character, but disliking a character is not grounds for banning /her. Only if she's unbeatable and has a significant advantage in every single matchup should it be considered... and this is clearly untrue.

If Puff gets banned, smash will be a complete joke among all competitive fighting game communities. If any other fighting game community saw this discussion they'd seriously laugh - it's absurd.

Another thing, the fact that she forces you to play differently is completely irrelevant. Look at Street Fighter... Zangief is a perfect example of a character that makes u play completely different. He even does so in a very Jigglypuff-esque way. You literally cannot go near the guy due to his overpowering grab game and have to spend the entire match shooting projectiles and poking with single attacks, regardless of what character you use. This makes him very unpleasant to play but is NOT anywhere near grounds for a ban. DUH.

 

[Inaphyt]

I think the top tier should include.

jiggz peach and captain falcon.

Then the high tier has 2 characters. Why is this a bad idea?

Peach has been proven to be an amazing character a feared matchup up for top tier characters, captain falcon can compete with any character at top levels of play. All of these characters can place in the top 3 at tournaments solo. I doubt ganondorf or doctor mario could win an international tournament solo, but i don't doubt any of the other characters i've mentioned, abilities to succeed. thoughts?

 

[Strong Badam]

no .

 

[Masmasher@]

Why is the smash community basing its tiers off of tournament wins still? Thats not what tiers are.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

Dude if you hate when people do it to you in regards to Metaknight, why are you doing the exact same thing to Hungrybox with Jigglypuff? That's just hypocrisy at its finest.

exactly what I was about to say.

now I know why people don't respect m2k's opinions anymore.

 

[victra♥]

no its not just that.

the pro-jiggs top tier group argues a lot of points and big walls of text while the anti-jiggs top tier group says "but lol, she's light".

 

[Let It Riot]

Alright, this is coming from a guy who really doesn't have any melee experience, so I won't comment on if Jigglypuff should be higher or stay since I of course can't give an informed opinion.

But what I do want to comment on, is why the discussion isn't happening. People give reasons for why she should be in a higher tier and then others explain why she shouldn't be the best in the game. That's just making up a false argument and then defeating it. This whole thread has gotten side tracked on a myriad of other sidebar topics of Jigglypuff's traits, the point is to juxtapose her merits on the rest of the cast, to see if she should belong in a higher group or not.

Why is this so hard for people to do?

I love reading about games that people delve into passionately and really try to learn and shape the game, normally it's great to see what's going on in smash. But this thread has been disappointing when I was really hoping for some lively discussion.

 

[Fletch]

MK isn't good enough (in fact LESS dominant at the tippity top level) either but the community is about to make me quit both games

If this happens couldn't you just concentrate on Melee?

And to keep this on topic, was anyone serious suggesting banning Jiggs? Ya she's annoying, MAYBE top tier, but not even the best character in the game. Absolutely ridiculous that someone would suggest that.

 

[n1000]

she's far more unpleasant to play against than any other character, but disliking a character is not grounds for banning /her.

Nah that's a great reason for banning someone. Puff matches aren't fun to watch and it's all about youtube stardom anyway.

There's no reason to ban jiggs because he's like an identification system for *******s...not playing jiggs is it's own reward.

PS: Leave jiggs as is but ban hungrybox...it's win-win




PPS: *win-lose....definitely win-lose.

 

[hungrybox]

nooooooooooooo

i don't wanna be another Pb&j