Jigglypuff General Discussion Thread (Q&A)

[teluoborg]

People still play on those ?

Jiggs doesn't really benefit from either stage and her sharking is really unsafe unless you're using ultra short ranged Uair.

If you want to play like a mofo you better go ledge camping.

 

[Osennecho]

I just love Delphino...I'm extremely good on that stage with Puff and other characters. Plus the stage depends on who your fighting. Not every character has fast spikes so I tend not to shark against characters with those options. Still, I have made good use of Delphino in friendlies as well as tournaments. Water transformation rest wake up, on the walk off part of Delphino I baited my friends Oli cause I was down a stock and managed to fair->bair->grab or something like that into forward throw for death the other day (his Olimar is actually legit), and several other gimps/gimmicks. You just need to know what part of Delphino is best for staying put, going in, etc. And most importantly, it allows for Puff to have a better chance/actual chance at a comeback than most other stages.

Its not like she has any good stages to begin with anyways. She's more of a what stage can you make work for you character. I'd probably say FD is her best but characters like Snake and Falco would beg to differ.

^^^That's just my opinion on the matter though.

 

[SoulPech]

Her best stages are delfino, FD, and Smashville. PS1 is also a good stage. Any stage that has a high ceiling and little to no platforms for the opponent to hide under. If there are platforms, then having a sharking stage (delphino) or a changing stage (PS1) would be good. Don't go castle seige because 2 of the 3 stages go into your favor (the 2nd and 3rd transformation). As for sharking, I would roll out Halberd due to its low ceiling. YI and BF can eat a **** and as for Lylat...eh. It's good for those who have bad recovery.

 

[Osennecho]

Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you possibly shark with roll out? I can see the one transformation where you can rollout onto the stage beneath the flying stage part meeting it, but that's not exactly sharking. Did you mean RULE out Halberd? Or is there some awesome trick for Puff I haven't discovered/learned?

Halberd goes both ways for me because it favors Rest and can allow for sharking. Massive downside is the low ceiling. Thus, its not really a stage I'd ban. I'd rather save the ban for a different stage based upon their main like Olimar and Castle Siege. For BF I can just go Marth (main/secondary depending upon how I feel). Although BF isn't bad for Puff vs IC's. And YI is just stupid... This conversation makes me miss Brinstar.

 

[SoulPech]

When I said "roll out" I mean like rule out Halberd as in don't go there, lol. Because of the low ceiling, over half of the cast can kill you earlier than most stages. Granted, you can land the rest, but it still has a high risk factor than to use other moves. People (like Olimar) can just YOLO Purple and legit kill 65% on that stage. You can shark on the stage, but it's like...50% You can shark 50% You cannot. If you want to shark, it's better to go to Delphino. You already have **** weight , so you need as much stage control/stage advantage as possible.

 

[Osennecho]

Thanks for the response. A friend now mains Olimar and is picking up Snake as his secondary. So I'm familiar with early KOs at this point >.<... And his base skill level has been slowly approaching mine. It makes Puff matches so much more insane/difficult... Part of why I'm just trying to find any little improvement for her. He's been fighting my Puff for like 2 years now so he knows the character and her lack of options. I get what you're saying though and I'll keep it in mind. I do think Castle Siege is noticeably worse for Puff than Halberd though.

 

[Desu~]

Well choosing the stage depending on your **** weight is already some kind of stalemate wouldn't you think?
Because i thought that since you pick a stage where there is a high ceilling, other characters will also be able to take advantage of that since they can survive much longer with this.
And at this point, if you struggle too much, you can't kill your opponent anymore.
I wouldn't know anyways cuz im in my suckage period. Can't do anything right anymore.

 

[SoulPech]

I"m curious why you think Castle Siege is worse than Halberd. On two stages, Puff has more mobility on 2 of the 3 transformations and those two stages have a high ceiling where as halberd has a low ceiling

 

[Osennecho]

....This will be a long post.....And I won't even list all the reasons....
Perhaps it is my Puffs play style or the fact I have a friend who mains Olimar that influences my opinion, but I'll start with several things I dislike about CS:

The first transformation-> It's just too damn small. This part is like Yoshi's but worse. And you start near your opponent. I don't like how quickly they can begin to pressure you. The positions of the platforms really hinder Puff in most matches and side KOs seem too easy. Now granted that helps Puff, but she can go farther off than most characters so IMO it hurts her more than it helps. Plus, smaller horizontal DI ability can be just as bad if not worse than a lower amount of vertical. Also you can't mind-game rollout. Now some Puffs say WTF rollout? But it still works because people are dumb and we know it 100x better. I got 2 BS rollout kills on Zero in one friendly match at Xanadu for this reason. I also got multiple ones on other people including tournament (singles). Plus it favors most top tiers/likely to see in tournament more-so than parts of Halberd. Especially Marth for example. Well aside from his utilt (F the Usmash we shouldn't ever be hit by that).

2nd transformation-> It's huge yay plus for Puff. But rollout is worthless and you can''t edge guard because there are no edges... And if your opponent is good you really don't want to go up to the top platforms escape pressure because now you're dead. Same for going outside the middle kinda.... Plus the statues get in her way. Overall it generally favors other characters more than her especially Olimar.

3rd transformation-> YAYYYY Falco's lasers it's Lylat all over again. Stupid tilts... Now you run to the ledge. If you aren't dead yet you now just gave up the stage while at a high percent. For most characters this wouldn't be the case though and you should be fine. Also, I don't enjoy sniping tilting ledges with rollout ever so I'd never use that as a recovery mixup here. There isn't much to complain about this part though as IMO it's the best of the three.


Now Halberd:

1st part/opening: Hardly lasts. Pretty negligible. Not much will/should happen. Unless down throw works if timed for the transformation to kill and only they die? Never tried it because I'm lazy/forget to bother. I know it works for MK. But that shouldn't ever really happen, but neither should a lot of things. If they tried to apply pressure you can always wait near the edge. Why/what character would gamble going closer to the edge vs Puff when the stage is about to transform? Nobody except MK. And if a different character does you have a gimp opportunity more-so than them for the reasons they do and the stage being about to transform. Don't forget footstools if need be.

2nd part: Hell yah. Sharking early because you have no percent. Guess what? You have no percent... Oh I said that already. Well it needed to be said again. Sharking is safe now against a fair number of characters to some extent and you can ledge camp/retreat/shark till you add percent to them. Really if careful, you shouldn't get hit much here/ever unless you are fighting MK. Worst case you use ledge grabs and the stage transforms and nobody really took any damage. If they stay on the top platform float through try to hit and get back to the ledge. And it's never fun for a Falco to try to recover here. Minute little plus there. Oh and if you get lucky and your opponent (not MK) trips while you shark then knock them off the stage and try to kill or try to read the roll and punish accordingly.

3rd part: Ok great now they have more percent than you. Well now you can utilize the stage interactions to your advantage to create/relieve pressure when possible in addition to giving a chance to even hit with rollout, rest, or another kill move depending upon how things go. You also might have done well enough on the 1st part that you get them to rest kill % and when you aren't at kill percent. These things aside this part is pretty much a neutral aside from the evil low ceiling which can now kill you.

Now it resets to part 2: Sharking may or may not be a valid option here now based on your %, but gimping them horizontally most certainly is. The platform won't help much though.


I'm to lazy to add more opinions/facts to any of this because A. It surely isn't all right as some of it applies more towards my Puff's play and B. This post is already to F**king long. Feel free to critique it. No really, feel free. I'm open to anything which can help my Puff improve at this point especially since there are no Puffs and the few that ever visit these boards seem to know her inside and out. Every tiny little mixup that one hardly ever thinks of like rollout bounce off PS1 windmill are incremental to her play after all.

 

[SoulPech]

My response

on CS:

1) That's her worst transformation. Just dodge everything and bait/punish
2) Just don't' use rollout lol. Yes, it's a big stage and the benefit to this stage is that it's large. Plus, statues, which means...extension on hitboxes. They're at kill % for your Fair, use Fair on the statue. It'll extend the hitbox and kill.
3) Falco's lasers are easy to dodge. Because of the high ceiling and sides, Puff is great on this stage. Not to mention, because of the tilts it's good to gimp those w/ bad recovery.. like *ahem* falco.

on HB:

1) Meh.

2) This transformation is hell. The only way to be threatening is to shark. Even if you shark, it risks getting Spiked down the stage and the floor death is steep. On the stage is an annoying platform dead center of the stage. Because of this, it damages your ability to approach if the player is smart enough to camp under it. Even then if you get hit hard enough on the sides or ceiling, you'll die early. LIke i stated, Oli's Up Smash will kill around 60% WITH DI.

3) Stage interactions are not that big of a deal because if you play a smart player they'll never get hit by it. You still have that annoying ass platform and low ceiling though.




CS>HB IMHO

 

[TM_icecream]

CS is one of my favorite stages ever with puff tbh

 

[Osennecho]

I think our play style is probably just different. It also doesn't help with Falco that the only good one I've ever played before is Xzax who has Dapuffster experience and is amazing at recovering. And every little % from lasers adds up a lot more on Puff than others. Also hitting the statues with fair only stales your moves (poor Puff) and a decent amount of characters can outrange puffs Fair/out prioritize it with their own hit-boxes and just better utilize the statues. And stage interactions are absurdly important. Not because noobs walk into them like when you tell someone that the laser heals them, but because they can be used to add pressure, mixups, resets, and hitting/getting hit/grabbed into them. It's not the little bit of damage they can give but how they can be used.
I don't really like either stage, but would rather play on Halberd. I can see where you're coming from with your preference for CS though.

 

[SoulPech]

I've played Shugo...he's good


-_______________________________-

 

[Osennecho]

Shugo is one of the few other high level Falcos. *Stares at line/face thing*
Is that a face or a line as in we pretty much talked this topic to death? Personally I like this line more:

 

[Angiance]

Jigglypuff needs more vitamins and minerals, cause she/he can't do nuuuuthin in Brawl

 

[Desu~]

Needs alot of dat protein, iron and carbon.

 

[Osennecho]

Needs alot of dat protein, iron and carbon.

And Carbos. I feel like Carbon existed as a rarer vitamin in Pokemon. Think I got it from the lottery once. I have no clue what it did though.

 

[Desu~]

And Carbos. I feel like Carbon existed as a rarer vitamin in Pokemon. Think I got it from the lottery once. I have no clue what it did though.

What the **** was i saying.
I meant carbos man! My bad.

 

[SoulPech]

Puff doesn't need any vitamins...just a better bair and a rest that kills earlier.

 

[Maniclysane]

Not a mod, but keep it on topic dudes

 

[SoulPech]

we have been O.O

 

[Desu~]

We should be actually debating whether or not Jigglypuff should evolve into Wigglytuff for the next smash.

 

[teluoborg]

I think what Maniclysane meant was : dat aint social.

 

[SoulPech]

2 days off track by 2 people and I brought it back...didn't know that was a crime.

Anyways, GnW vs Puff.

 

[Desu~]

It's a really ****ing cute matchup.

But really, what can you do about it. G&W's a scrub.

EDIT: So yeah, how's the TL and MU going on anyways?
People wants to bring Jiggs to rock bottom and everything is cool.

 

[SoulPech]

TL stays at -2.
I mean...Mink almost beat PJ and I beat Near. It's not going anywhere, lol.

 

[Osennecho]

I don't know anything about the Puff G&W matchup.... Never played a good one in singles. All I know is that I have trouble with scrubs who know/use the moves that can wall her out. TL at -2 sounds pretty dead on IMO.

 

[Desu~]

All I know is that I have trouble with scrubs who know/use the moves that can wall her out.

Well there you go. That's exactly how it goes against a G&W.

 

[Osennecho]

Well there you go. That's exactly how it goes against a G&W.

But but but.... I thought Olimar was almost as bad but now I have a + record aside from Castle Siege vs my friend who mains the character. I feel like there has to be a way around it and I just haven't had any matchup experience. It's the same for Kirby. I only fought one really good Kirby player before. That dude who carries around a Squirtle plushie. He either 2 stocked or almost 2 stocked me because idk the matchup. I do better vs MKs. Speaking of which, does anyone know how to fight Kirby....?

 

[Desu~]

You know what?
I'm sick of those players that keeps saying that Kirby is not a great character.
He's got so many **** in his moveset and you can easily string them together it's dumb.
But, really, Kirby is pretty much a better version of Jigglypuff with a bad fair i guess.
Don't get caught by his dtilt. It's the worst.

 

[SoulPech]

the reason why ppl say he's bad is because he doesn't have a reliable kill move. To us, he does since Puff doesn't have reliable kill moves either xD

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Eh, G&W isn't unwinnable or even close to it imo, just gotta be patient

Kirby is pretty balls, his strings only work if you can't SDI properly, but he is better than Puff

 

[Desu~]

Looks pretty unwinnable to me.
He's got a scrubby bair to keep Jiggs away, got a great recovery so that you can't even try to guard the edge properly, and he hits too hard.
You do something wrong, you lose a stock to a scrubby dsmash.

 

[Osennecho]

Looks pretty unwinnable to me.
He's got a scrubby bair to keep Jiggs away, got a great recovery so that you can't even try to guard the edge properly, and he hits too hard.
You do something wrong, you lose a stock to a scrubby dsmash.

^^^^ My opinion atm as well. If I had like 10-15 hours against a G&W main I might think differently as I'd download the matchup.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Looks pretty unwinnable to me.
He's got a scrubby bair to keep Jiggs away, got a great recovery so that you can't even try to guard the edge properly, and he hits too hard.
You do something wrong, you lose a stock to a scrubby dsmash.

You can basically air dodge through the bair on reaction a lot of the time (and it's not like you have to do it, if for whatever reason it wouldn't be safe to air dodge through you can just retreat; Puff doesn't exactly get pressured when she's at the edge, she's too mobile) - and then you're in front of G&W and you can attempt to punish whatever his next move is (you can even directly punish the bair if you time it perfectly). You can even roll behind it pretty safely if he really commits to it (i.e. is moving into you).

I think too many Puff players get walled out by moves because they have the "Puff must short hop bair over and over" mentality. The cool thing about her is that you can spend a whole minute just safely avoiding attacks and working out your opponent's habits/conditioning them, and then you just read the move that is walling you out when you're confident enough (pretty much nothing is safe when you read it) and punish it. It helps that even if you get hit by bair, big woop, SDI out and go for the ledge and you'll take less than 10% at most lol

Most characters can't edge-guard G&W. I'm trying to think of situations where you make a mistake and get hit by dsmash... It's like frame 15 or some ****, and the hitbox isn't that good.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm staying at the best G&W in my country's house next month for a few days, so I might come back with more insight or some recordings.

 

[Desu~]

That would be really nice.
Enjoy that stay.

 

[teluoborg]

Guys
Just
Why

Do you even go in the air against an airborne GW/Kirby ?

It's like, just because Jiggs' ground moves are balls everyone forgets she has a shield and a grab.

 

[SoulPech]

gnw's bair has a delayed hit and if we're caught off guard, we'll get hit by it. Also, the delayed hit will push us back far eough where it'll whiff the grab. the only to beat the delayed hit is to powershield it. The sheild + grab can work on kirby. As for competing on the ground, Kirby outclasses Puff's moveset, while GnW's dtilt outclasses Puff's Moveset...even pound sometimes.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

^Pretty much, you're not shield-grabbing G&W's bair unless they space very poorly

GnW's ftilt is mad laggy... do you mean dtilt?