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Uh.....I never said anything about the numbers on this matchup...Nor did Mmac IIRC.
Except you never made relevant points, never asked for a rebuttal. I'm going to report you soon, please leave now.
Umm... yeah... that's not true at all.
All of those things were 100% totally relevant to the conversation. You might not AGREE with the points, but they had everything to do with the subject at hand.
That's even LESS true.
I haven't gone two posts without requesting a reasonable counterargument. And I've been extraordinarily patient dealing with your hostility thus far, in my opinion.
I beg your pardon? I haven't called you any names, or said that your opinions weren't valid, nor have I told you to stop posting because I don't like what you have to say. In fact, I have been nothing but respectful to you in spite of your constant barrage of insults. You might not believe this, but if you'll go back and look at the posts, you'll find it to be true. At worst, I've been overly sarcastic, but that's hardly a rarity in Internet forums.
Mango won Pound 3, a national tourney. I would do well to place in single digits in my region.
Yeah but you are considered a very good player on these boards. And Jigglypuff was good in melee....
...I'm not on anyone's side in this argument because I haven't read the posts, but what does saying jiggs sucks and trolling have to do with each other? I say that **** all the time.
Even assuming for a second that this was true, exactly why am I approaching Jigglypuff again? I have no need to do that at all.
First of all, this makes the rash assumption that I'm throwing where you are instead of where you're going to be. I'm not going to be throwing eggs at you, I'm going to be blocking your flight path. Your only choices are to back up, dodge through, or change elevation without getting hit by shrapnel. Not good choices.
How?
If you're trying to space with aerials (which is what Jigglypuff does), then his pivot grab is extremely viable in this match-up. Hell, he can even grab Game and Watch out of the turtle. What chance to you have to avoid it?
We know how she approaches. I'm saying those approaches put her at more risk than Yoshi.
You would be surprised at how many character representatives think they are "one of the few that can gimp Yoshi." (Verbatim.)
STOP. TIME-OUT. HOLD THE PHONE. Edgehog Yoshi. You're serious, here. I would love... and I mean LOVE to see a video of a Jigglypuff doing this to him.
This does't seem like a huge risk, really. I'm not saying you CAN'T hit Yoshi with Pound, but the chances are better that Yoshi is going to hurt you.
You really believe that, don't you? I... I'm honestly... well, flabbergasted at the idea. Jigglypuff as a BAD match-up for Yoshi, even without his up air, is an extraordinarily tough pill to swallow. One of his WORST match-ups? Worse than Lucario? Worse than Game & Watch? Worse than Marth? I'm sorry, but that's just flat-out wrong, man.
Yes, thank you. I really do appreciate you taking the time to discuss this with me, now.
What... you are going to throw eggs all day? The point is Yoshi has no solid approach against Jigglypuff, while Jiggs has sufficient approach options against him.
Are we talking about the same Yoshi? Eggs are not the obstacle you make them out to be. It's not like air dodging is hard.
How is a character with excellent horizontal aerial mobility and 5 double jumps going to get around a long-duration multi-hit aerial?
You can't grab someone who isn't at ground level. Jigglypuff should never be at ground level.
...How?
Good for them, but most other characters don't have fast aerials that can deal enough horizontal knockback to knock Yoshi out of his double jump, nor the aerial speed to follow him out there.
It's not that hard to understand. You just have to pressure Yoshi away from the edge with nairs and dairs long enough for him to lose his window, and grab the ledge when he goes for his last egg. As long as you are still invincible when the egg hits, Yoshi falls and dies.
Certainly. Between his Egg Toss Slide, his Edge-Canceled Egg Toss, and his general mobility on ground and in the air, I don't see why not. I toss eggs, therefore I force you to approach. Ergo, I don't need to approach you.
Both of these statements are incorrect. Yoshi could feasibly approach Jigglypuff without fear of reprisal if he needed to. Jigglypuff must be constantly evasive in her approach and is always at risk of being pummeled with eggs, pivot-grabbed, and generally counter-attacked.
And that's exactly where you made your mistake. You just air dodged right into a hyphen smash. Egg Toss is going to put the hurt on Jigglypuff one way or another.
The better question is, how does any of that mobility help you when you don't have an answer for that aerial? She can't punish it afterward, because I'm just going to cancel it into a neutral air or a tilt if I'm landing. Yoshi's back air is pretty safe against her. Pound is a vague possibility, but it leaves Jiggly open.
If this were true, Snake wouldn't be sweating bullets over the Cypher grab trick. If Jiggly's too high for his grab, she's in range for his up smash. If she's not in range of his up smash, she can't attack. It's a lose-lose situation for her.
Let's leave the anecdotal evidence out of this, alright?
As a rule, experienced Yoshi players never rely on their armor to protect them against pursuit. If you're playing anyone that is, they're using him poorly.
...Or I don't bother with Egg Toss at all, recover above you, and dodge down.
Absolutely not the case. Believe me, I'll be the first in line to admit it when Yoshi has a bad match-up. Heck, Lucario scares the living daylights out of me. This isn't a matter of character pride. It's a matter of being realistic. And the fact is that Yoshi can always afford to bide his time and counter what Jigglypuff's doing. Jigglypuff is constantly under pressure to act, being forced to approach and having (yes, slightly) less aerial mobility and a lot less ground mobility. She doesn't have reliable killing options against Yoshi, while Yoshi has several against her. Yoshi will survive at much higher percents than her, he is less punishable than her, and has better range on his attacks. To me, it's a pretty straightforward equation.
Apparently not, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we?
No, actually, I didn't.
...what? This is the most nonsensical post in this thread. Jigglypuff is the most aerial character in the game, with the slowest fall speed and vertical acceleration. Snake isn't. Snake is scared of the cypher grab because he can be hit low and horizontal and low percents... Jigglypuff is not scared of Yoshi's pivot grab because she is never on the ground! The two situations and characters aren't remotely related.
If I try to explain the Yoshi players I've played, I get dismissed as being anecdotal.
I just don't know what to say to this. It's wrong. I get hit by a max of like two eggs a stock, normally because I misread a throw or thought I could beat Yoshi to it with a nair. This is like you sitting here trying to tell me that Din's Fire is something Jigglypuff can't deal with, or that Mario's fireballs pressure her. It's just wrong!
I'm sorry, credibility lost.
She doesn't have an answer for the eggs...pound might beat them, but timing that repeatedly will become a chore. No response.
I know pound has crazy range, but she won't get hit by the egg shards?
That was fast.
Using prediction to hit us is a moot point. That falls into the range of mind games. If you predict where we're going, we can predict where you're throwing. That's why mindgames don't get discussed, so stop using them. Otherwise we get into theoretically where we're always hitting you with rests and rollouts and there's nothing you can do "because we predicted you." Just stop.
