Jigglypuff Matchup #7: Olimar

[illinialex24]

Please discuss Jigglypuff's potential, strategy and stage counterpicks here.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

PND, make a new chart : /

His range is annoying like marth's, and his smashes are too fast. He is the easiest character to gimp off stage, which makes him perfect for jiggs. I'd say 50:50 or anything close. I still am waiting for my olimar match from Maniclysane.

 

[DanGR]

After playing this matchup a little more, I really have no idea how Jiggs is supposed to approach. What I do know is that her dair beats out upsmash. This can help her float above Olimar sort of like MK can against most characters, but it gets predictable and thus easily punishable. (usually upair) The only thing she does have on Olimar is good edgeguarding, but the whistle can take care of that some of the time. Also, she's not going to get very many, if any opportunities to be in that position anyways.

I'm pretty confident that the matchup is at least 75-25 Olimar. Maybe higher.

 

[Metatitan]

uhg olimar. 65:35 just because his recovery sucks *** for facing jiggs with. he pretty much dominates her IMO

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

After playing this matchup a little more, I really have no idea how Jiggs is supposed to approach. What I do know is that her dair beats out upsmash. This can help her float above Olimar sort of like MK can against most characters, but it gets predictable and thus easily punishable. (usually upair) The only thing she does have on Olimar is good edgeguarding, but the whistle can take care of that some of the time. Also, she's not going to get very many, if any opportunities to be in that position anyways.

I'm pretty confident that the matchup is at least 75-25 Olimar. Maybe higher.

75??? Higher??

I am sorry sir, but are you trying to imply that Olimar is jigg's hardest matchup?

This is madness.

His recovery is gimped as soon as he leaves the stage, and this is for any matchup, not to mention jigg's WoP.

 

[Spoonbob]

75??? Higher??

I am sorry sir, but are you trying to imply that Olimar is jigg's hardest matchup?

This is madness.

His recovery is gimped as soon as he leaves the stage, and this is for any matchup, not to mention jigg's WoP.

But it's incredibly hard to get a good Olimar anywhere off the stage. This matchup is grim...it's incredibly hard to approach him and get decent damage in regularly, and his smashes are beast as hell. Rollout is virtually useless, too, though it's not really relied on much.

 

[Metatitan]

the only reason oli isnt higher than 75 on jiggs is because of priority issues. pounds most certainly works (at least for me) very well in this matchup. The reason olimar doesnt **** us (like a certain 2d character does) is because we have high priority attacks to fight back with and we are more suited than most characters for ledgehogging him. 65:35 olimar IMO

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

But it's incredibly hard to get a good Olimar anywhere off the stage. This matchup is grim...it's incredibly hard to approach him and get decent damage in regularly, and his smashes are beast as hell. Rollout is virtually useless, too, though it's not really relied on much.

True.

Use pound and some n-airs to get him up in the air and to give him more damage. The small characters are harder to hit, and hard to trip.

 

[illinialex24]

Its not 65-35, it should be 70-30 or higher. It is Jigglypuff's second hardest matchup. Fairly widely accepted.

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

Its not 65-35, it should be 70-30 or higher. It is Jigglypuff's second hardest matchup. Fairly widely accepted.

What is the hardest?

(I am confused between the easy recovery punish and the GTFO moves on his side)

 

[Veril]

I am sorry sir, but are you trying to imply that Olimar is jigg's hardest matchup?

Olimar is Jigglypuff's hardest matchup. Yes, I said it. 80 : 20

Oh sure, he's an "easy gimp"... if you get him offstage. Good luck with that. There's no way to approach him and he doesn't have to approach you with his unstoppable spam army.

He's got crazy range and power, and though we don't really have to worry about chain-grabs, his grab outranges ours so a major component of our game is shut down there. You really can never be above him or next to him.

Your only option is to force him offstage and gimp his recovery. This is what EVERYONE tries to do to Olimar and his mains can and WILL prevent this.

To have even a chance of winning you have to pick a stage like Orpheon or Brinstar, THEN outplay your opponent substantially and you can win. YOUR FAIR MUST REMAIN FRESH. This is absolutely a necessity here.

Good Luck. Have a counterpick ready.

 

[illinialex24]

Nah he is definitely easier than G&W and I find him to be manageable if you are very smart.

 

[Veril]

Nah he is definitely easier than G&W and I find him to be manageable if you are very smart.

I have much less trouble with GW.

 

[Spoonbob]

Olimar is Jigglypuff's hardest matchup. Yes, I said it. 80 : 20

Oh sure, he's an "easy gimp"... if you get him offstage. Good luck with that. There's no way to approach him and he doesn't have to approach you with his unstoppable spam army.

He's got crazy range and power, and though we don't really have to worry about chain-grabs, his grab outranges ours so a major component of our game is shut down there. You really can never be above him or next to him.

Your only option is to force him offstage and gimp his recovery. This is what EVERYONE tries to do to Olimar and his mains can and WILL prevent this.

To have even a chance of winning you have to pick a stage like Orpheon or Brinstar, THEN outplay your opponent substantially and you can win. YOUR FAIR MUST REMAIN FRESH. This is absolutely a necessity here.

Good Luck. Have a counterpick ready.

This. Olimar and G&W are the only two characters that I literally say "****" out loud when I see someone using them...they're also the only characters that make me consider getting a real secondary.

The only thing I could think to do would be to just poke at the Oli till he's at a high enough percent to knock off stage for the gimp/knock off close to the edge for a fair kill. Keep fair fresh, most definitely.

 

[EraOfGames]

Olimar is Jigglypuff's hardest matchup. Yes, I said it. 80 : 20

Oh sure, he's an "easy gimp"... if you get him offstage. Good luck with that. There's no way to approach him and he doesn't have to approach you with his unstoppable spam army.

He's got crazy range and power, and though we don't really have to worry about chain-grabs, his grab outranges ours so a major component of our game is shut down there. You really can never be above him or next to him.

Yeah basically what Veril said...I don't feel safe approaching from anywhere, everywhere I go I get hit by a pikmin. The majority of the 20% in Jiggly's favor would be because of gimping, otherwise It's **** ._. I'll leave more comments later because I've only played oli a few times honestly.

 

[asob4]

uhhh i'll play meow next chance i get
but he is like super afraid of purples and olimar in general

 

[Thinkaman]

Heheheh...

Olimar is a terrible matchups for Jigglypuff players not fully familiar with their character, or even just the matchup, but once you learn it, it's probably about even.

Olimar is not only easily gimped, but has very poor diagonal priority. Jigglypuff meanwhile has excellent diagonal priority and aerial movement to use it to approach. Falling pounds are the best! Once he is in the air, respect his aerials like you would Zelda or such, and you can work your own in pretty easily.

Smash DI nairs and u-tilts.

WATCH HIS PIKMIN. When he has a blue up, he is going to want to grab you are high percents. This will kill you, so be even more aerial than usual. Purples kill upwards at even lower percents, but it's harder to grab with them.

It's easy to learn Olimar's advantages and work around them. Olimar can't really say the same about Jigglypuff.

EDIT: I like taking Olimar to Battlefield, personally. It restricts his aerial usage due to landing lag on the platforms, and is a somewhat narrow stage; that makes it easy to get Olimar off and gimp-able.

 

[TheStig]

take olimar to rainbow cruise

 

[deepseadiva]

No, take him to Jungle Japes.

The largest legal roof in the game for longevity and if he falls in the water, he's pretty much dead since it kills all his non-blue Pikmin.

 

[Meow n Stuff]

i hate olimar lol. hes a tiny hitbox of a character that pressures you to approach with flying pikmin. :/ olimars grab game and OoS options are just >_>. i guess its easy to gimp olimars that dont know how to smash DI up lol. If a olimar main knows how to space, power shield, DI, and has a close relationship with hes pikmin friends then... oh nose.

if a jigglypuff beats an olimar first round, prepare for weegee's mansion or corneria as a cp. lol thats even more horrible.

 

[Miles.]

i hate olimar lol. hes a tiny hitbox of a character that pressures you to approach with flying pikmin. :/ olimars grab game and OoS options are just >_>. i guess its easy to gimp olimars that dont know how to smash DI up lol. If a olimar main knows how to space, power shield, DI, and has a close relationship with hes pikmin friends then... oh nose.

if a jigglypuff beats an olimar first round, prepare for weegee's mansion or corneria as a cp. lol thats even more horrible.

meow your sig is ****.

i am on its balls.

 

[Thinkaman]

if a jigglypuff beats an olimar first round, prepare for weegee's mansion or corneria as a cp. lol thats even more horrible.

This should not be a problem.

First, you will never play on Corneria because you banned Corneria. This is because you play Jigglypuff, and people who play Jigglypuff ban Corneria.

Second, Olimar doesn't really like Luigi's Mansion as much as you'd think. The high ceiling and move-refreshing pillars make it a tolerable Jiggs stage.

Third, especially against Jiggs a smart Olimar would CP Halberd. It's a slightly campy, long stage with a low ceiling. Olimar can tether from good angles under the stage, and has a spike that prevents Jiggs from spamming approaches through the stage.

Fourth, stupid Olimar's will CP Norfair. It will be harder (but still easy) to gimp Olimar there, but a ton easy to rack up damage and land fairs.

 

[Zori]

i hate olimar lol. hes a tiny hitbox of a character that pressures you to approach with flying pikmin. :/ olimars grab game and OoS options are just >_>. i guess its easy to gimp olimars that dont know how to smash DI up lol. If a olimar main knows how to space, power shield, DI, and has a close relationship with hes pikmin friends then... oh nose.

if a jigglypuff beats an olimar first round, prepare for weegee's mansion or corneria as a cp. lol thats even more horrible.

meow knows too much about olimar
I blame myself

 

[EWING]

This should not be a problem.

First, you will never play on Corneria because you banned Corneria. This is because you play Jigglypuff, and people who play Jigglypuff ban Corneria.

Second, Olimar doesn't really like Luigi's Mansion as much as you'd think. The high ceiling and move-refreshing pillars make it a tolerable Jiggs stage.

Third, especially against Jiggs a smart Olimar would CP Halberd. It's a slightly campy, long stage with a low ceiling. Olimar can tether from good angles under the stage, and has a spike that prevents Jiggs from spamming approaches through the stage.

Fourth, stupid Olimar's will CP Norfair. It will be harder (but still easy) to gimp Olimar there, but a ton easy to rack up damage and land fairs.

Every Olimar I've played loves (and excels at playing on) Mansion. This includes Blackwaltz, who's the best I've played. The ceiling (like not the upper kill point, but the actual ceilings in the rooms) allows him to rack up massive amounts of damage in seconds. Most importantly, however, the stage forces you to approach horizontally, which every Olimar player who knows the character loves. Trust me, the benefits of the stage for good Olimars far outweigh the relatively high ceiling.

And yea, for M, if you've played a good Olimar then you'll find out how bad this matchup is. His grab game beats out literally any approach you have (and trust me, you have to approach because he has no qualms about hurling more Pikmin at you). Your grab game doesn't work compared to his, your retreating bairs will get grabbed, and anything else is incredibly hard to land safely because of his small size.

My favorite move of Jigglypuff's to use against Olimar is the ability to switch to G&W. Any time I've tried with Jigglypuff I just excessively use dair and get 2 stocked.

 

[Veril]

Olimar is one of the reasons I keep Lucas around.

 

[RhedKing]

Olimar is one of the reasons I keep Lucas around.

Olimar is the reason I still use Kirby
Stop, Hammer Time!

In all seriousness I think jiggs olimar is pretty fair at 45:55 oli's favor

 

[illinialex24]

The general consensus for this matchup is 70-30 or more for Olimar. Thinkaman is likely the best Jigglypuff in Brawl so I would like to hear a detailed argument why it is so even.

 

[pizzapie7]

65:35

Once you get him offstage, its an easy kill. But getting him offstage is the problem.

I think, like Thinkaman said, you should probably ban Corneria. A smart Olimar won't take you too LM. Most likely he'll go to Halberd, or Jungle Japes (if he's overconfident, stupid, or he knows you aren't good in th air).
On Jungle Japes, he will attempt to spike you into the water from the getgo.

Cp1 should be Jungle Japes, because the water will kill all of his Pikmin, and most likely him. Keep this battle in the air, stay above him so he cannot spike you.

Unless its banned, cp2 should be Rainbow Ride. If it is, then you should probably go off instinct.

So, yeah, 65:35. Knowing what kind of playstyle your opponent uses is the best way to go. Pay alot more attention in the first match, watch what he does, and how he reacts in certain situations. Then take him to the right cp.

And if all else phails, go secondary.

 

[EWING]

What smart Olimars are people talking about that don't like LM? It works exceptionally well against Jigglypuff especially because there's no top-down approach, and it's already been said already that his grab game + smashes > any horizontal approach Jiggs has.

Maybe I don't have my sources right, but pretty much every Oli I've talked to loves it. The best of them being probably waltz

 

[rinoH]

i think its about 65:35 in favor of olimar

 

[pizzapie7]

What I meant by saying most smart Olimars won't pick that stage is that Halberd is probably a better choice for there side of the matchup, because they can camp more. Luigi's Mansion would still get picked if not as cp1, then cp2.

 

[Dabuz]

ok, think abut weegee, what is jiggly best approach against oli? vertical correct, can you approach vertical on LM, no, unless you destroy the house where oli will play it like fd and just camp jiggs like a *****,

and lets just say you try short hopped dairs, maybe we will punish up-b if your predictable, or most time you get punished OOS for a death combo off ceiling at decent percents

, which btw, since most olis can tech ceiling really good to nair->upsmash/dsmash combo makes it hard to get oli out of mansion for gimp until like 180% and then killing by edgegaurd will be canceled with whistle by smart olis anyway, while oli can just at like 80% go for dsmash and kill generally easy with it, or if they are smart will get you in position to be upsmashes in middle or lure out of mansion for easy blue throw kill,

and don't forget on mansion oli can run and throw pikmin all day and jiggs can't catch up to stop it, even with rollout olis pikmin if latched will stop it along with pillars and pivot grabs will wreck any approach jiggs can make horizontal

luigi mansion will olis cp if conrneria isn't available and your best bet is to learn how to fight oli in weegee mansion or break all pillars so you can force oli to play fd style for a small period of time which you must take advantage of

case and point, LM is a great oli cp against jiggs

ill say its 65-35 oli's favor if hes a smart camper on long maps like fd, yi, or LM, ect., and 60-40 on smaller maps like bf because jigglypuffs main goal should be just sheild pressuring oli alot because most olis love thier sheilds and if you deteriorate it enough they will have trouble fighting jiggs on stages like bf

 

[KnucklesTheEchidna]

PNDMike posting.
70/30 minimum, Ollie's favor. Everything notable has already been said.

 

[kirbywizard]

70-30 or 80-20 @_@ at most Olimar Favor
his grabs can kill at low damages such as his up throw, and his grabs have a good range, and can stop roll out but that isn't used so much.
Olimar wont care if you hate camping enemy s he will cam,p you till you approach, you really can not make any mistakes in this match, almost all of his smashes have a good range, and Jigglypuff light weight is not helping at all in this match up. Purples kill quickly with garbs.
YOu can really only approach. Your only luck is if you knock olimar off the stage, and edge hog his gimpy recovery, but thats still hard.

I use olimar, and I dont care if my enemy hates camping, I love throwing my infinit supply of pikmin at Jigglypuff. I recommend you pick someone else or pick RB, or Jungle Japes, or that DK stage that moves upwards.

edit: basically what everyone has mentioned already, hands down big adavtage for Olimar, he dosent really have to change his stratedgy at all really

 

[EWING]

ok, think abut weegee, what is jiggly best approach against oli? vertical correct, can you approach vertical on LM, no, unless you destroy the house where oli will play it like fd and just camp jiggs like a *****,

and lets just say you try short hopped dairs, maybe we will punish up-b if your predictable, or most time you get punished OOS for a death combo off ceiling at decent percents

, which btw, since most olis can tech ceiling really good to nair->upsmash/dsmash combo makes it hard to get oli out of mansion for gimp until like 180% and then killing by edgegaurd will be canceled with whistle by smart olis anyway, while oli can just at like 80% go for dsmash and kill generally easy with it, or if they are smart will get you in position to be upsmashes in middle or lure out of mansion for easy blue throw kill,

and don't forget on mansion oli can run and throw pikmin all day and jiggs can't catch up to stop it, even with rollout olis pikmin if latched will stop it along with pillars and pivot grabs will wreck any approach jiggs can make horizontal

luigi mansion will olis cp if conrneria isn't available and your best bet is to learn how to fight oli in weegee mansion or break all pillars so you can force oli to play fd style for a small period of time which you must take advantage of

case and point, LM is a great oli cp against jiggs

ill say its 65-35 oli's favor if hes a smart camper on long maps like fd, yi, or LM, ect., and 60-40 on smaller maps like bf because jigglypuffs main goal should be just sheild pressuring oli alot because most olis love thier sheilds and if you deteriorate it enough they will have trouble fighting jiggs on stages like bf

thats what i thought son

and you still owe me $10

so its settled: if youre ballsy enough to play jiggs against oli, ban corneria and lm

 

[Veril]

I use olimar, and I dont care if my enemy hates camping, I love throwing my infinit supply of pikmin at Jigglypuff. I recommend you pick someone else or pick RB, or Jungle Japes, or that DK stage that moves upwards.

edit: basically what everyone has mentioned already, hands down big adavtage for Olimar, he dosent really have to change his stratedgy at all really

In a competitive setting no one gives a s*** whether you hate anything they do. Any legal tactic will be used. If nobody stops me, I'll plank my way through Castle Seige until the final part.

That DK stage is banned. pikmin spam, like all spam, can be beaten by Jiggs with pound, n-air and her excellent maneuverability and multiple jumps. The main issue are his grabs, OOS options, and superb smashes.

Someone said something about Battlefield. Never go to Battlefield against Olimar. Ever.

 

[Excellence]

Someone said something about Battlefield. Never go to Battlefield against Olimar. Ever.

That's a whole lot of truth you're saying.

Olimar's only weak area is diagnol approaches. Now that you have a direction, you'll want a way to get through his defensive options. I recommend you use Dair to drill through most of his attacks. Usually, this may just be me, I run away from diagnols and pivot grab them or, if I have the priority, Nair into to stop it. Those are the two main options you'll want to watch out for. In order to avoid the pivot, stay the hell off the ground. If Olimar Nairs, try to bait them and space you're in a way that you can punish him for it. Jigglypuff's Fair and Bair do a nice job of juggling Olimar due to his floatiness. If you can manage to send him off the ledge, just ledgehog. Jigg's has got enough jumps to recover from the spike unless she's a high percentage. For this match-up, think pressure, pressure, pressure. Keep on Olimar until he can't shield you and he's wrecked.

Quick note, sometimes, an Olimar will catch on to you're diagnol approaches and mix in the use of his tether. I'd use Pounds to try and get around it or mindgame.

For stages, I'd recommend Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, or Norfair (in order from the most useful, imo).

 

[illinialex24]

That's a whole lot of truth you're saying.

Olimar's only weak area is diagnol approaches. Now that you have a direction, you'll want a way to get through his defensive options. I recommend you use Dair to drill through most of his attacks. Usually, this may just be me, I run away from diagnols and pivot grab them or, if I have the priority, Nair into to stop it. Those are the two main options you'll want to watch out for. In order to avoid the pivot, stay the hell off the ground. If Olimar Nairs, try to bait them and space you're in a way that you can punish him for it. Jigglypuff's Fair and Bair do a nice job of juggling Olimar due to his floatiness. If you can manage to send him off the ledge, just ledgehog. Jigg's has got enough jumps to recover from the spike unless she's a high percentage.

Quick note, sometimes, an Olimar will catch on to you're diagnol approaches and mix in the use of his tether. I'd use Pounds to try and get around it or mindgame.

For stages, I'd recommend Rainbow Cruise, Delfino Plaza, Halberd, or Norfair (in order from the most useful, imo).

Nope, go Japes, Cruise, Plaza, and Halberd in order. Japes ***** Olimar. Like ***** him. And also, Battlefield is the king of all planking stages with Smashville. CP Olimar here if you are allowed to ledge-stall. Thats right. 1 hit and he has to go offstage to try to kill you. Get two jumps off him and he's dead.

 

[Excellence]

Nope, go Japes, Cruise, Plaza, and Halberd in order. Japes ***** Olimar. Like ***** him. And also, Battlefield is the king of all planking stages with Smashville. CP Olimar here if you are allowed to ledge-stall. Thats right. 1 hit and he has to go offstage to try to kill you. Get two jumps off him and he's dead.

Japes really isn't that bad. I can stand on that center platform and keep you off me by Smash camping. Never go to Battlefield against Olimar. He can spam grab at the ledge and grab you like he goes G&W.

 

[illinialex24]

Japes really isn't that bad. I can stand on that center platform and keep you off me by Smash camping. Never go to Battlefield against Olimar. He can spam grab at the ledge and grab you like he goes G&W.

Umm yeah you don't realize what ledge stalling is do you? You go below the stage, do a few rising pounds, wait a bit without using your 4th overall jump (leaving you 3 overall, enough to cross the stage) and then grab the ledge from below out of the way of any attack because of her ridiculous grab range. Before your invincibility expires, go back down and repeat.

And Japes is very good for Jigglypuff because the 1 long platform plays perfectly into her ledge pressure game and the edges allow her amazing kills. Very good stage for Jigglypuff and very good against Olimar.