Jigglypuff-Wario MU export: Redone.

[B.Mack]

Wario punishes all of jiggs' kill moves so easily and is one of the only chars that can actually get in and punish a whiffed f-air due to the speed at which he can change directions in the air and how amazing his airdodge is.

Wario can chase down jiggs so easily, lol. you should be saying how can jiggs chase down Wario. Jiggs has a higher max air speed. but takes ages to get to that speed. Wario has insane aerial accelration so he catches up really fast.

dont be fooled, Wario's aerials are all VERY good. you never ever wanna be above him because you get uair'd. if you want to dair, you should be doing it offstage or landing it diagonally.

A WARIO RECOVERING LOW SHOULD NOT GO SCOT FREE. always land the nair or dair(I prefer nair)

while rollout would land if Wario recovers high WITH upB(never ever gonna happen) I was talking about if a Wario opens his mouth for the bite BEFORE you start the rollout. then you can punish before he can throw out another attack or another bite or before he can shield if u time it well enough. a horrible move made even worse in this matchup though.

someone mentioned that a grab off the edge with Wario at 110% = free kill? I'd like to know exactly what you're gonna get that kill with lmao. usmash is the only thing that MIGHT land, and it doesnt kill the fatman until at least 130%. a sweetspotted fair would only kill if it was totally fresh, and even then I think Wario would have to be at like 120%.

uair is the move you wanna avoid the most in this matchup. try to never be in its range.

 

[ItoI6]

whenever i get a grab like that i footstool to bair stage spike.

 

[T-block]

Rest will kill at 110% lol... but you're right - Wario generally won't lose a stock in that situation unless he will be killed by f-air.

I find d-air to be the safer option against a Wario forced to recover low. The knockback isn't as high, but the hitbox is in a better position, and I find it easier to follow-up after as well.

 

[B.Mack]

footstool is never guaranteed out of a grab release.
Rest woukd kill, but its a sucide.
dair is the far safer and better option imo.

 

[Exegguter]

Cant we just all agree this is 60:40 wario's favour and move on to much bigger fears like snake/marth/gaw ?

 

[B.Mack]

no point discussin Marth tbh. its like 90:10.
Snake then GaW. lets go nao.

 

[Ayoub]

Why wouldn't this MU be horrible? Our only strength, good aerial mobility means nothing in this MU. You can try to keep away, but Wario will always be in your face and all of his aerials are just better versions of ours. His drill is a lot better than ours too. You say that Wario lacks range so it's not that bad... You do realize that Puff is the one who lacks range, but doesn't have that ridiculous mobility to make up for it? Wario can work out his bad range with the ability to be suddenly in your face with his mobility and poke your shield like nobody's business.

Go above Wario, you die at 60-70% to uair. Try to stall, you die 40% to fart. Try to gimp, you fail at it.
Yeah, so it's kinda like playing a ditto MU where the opponent is 2x better than you. And everything Wario can't just beat anyways is bitten to death.

First of all, sorry; if you die at 60% because of wario's uair, your DI is TER-RI-BAD. Go practice your DI, that argument is bad and invalid. Try to stall, you die at 40% to fart. Wario doesn't hav ehis fart all the time, so, what are you talking about. Wario mains check the timer to know when they'll use fart or not. Why won't you do the same? Start match, stall etc, when you see Wario is able to use fart. Stop stalling and move on to your stupid-annoying-aerials-game-camping.

"Try to gimp, you fail at it." What? LOL. What are you trying to say? All jiggly mains fail at gimping a wario? Well, not everyone is a not-good jiggly main as you (sorry I didn't want to use the word bad 'cause it sounds harsh, otherwise I'd just say you're bad. Oh wait, I just did)'.

I think the MU is pretty even. I'm a noob, yes, I'm trying to pick up jiggly as a 2nd main next to pit. Don't ask me why, I just love its aerial game. Anyway, it (jiggly) has great aerials. If you space well, you can compete with Wario's aerials game. It ain't that bad, you're overreacting making the MU 60-40, it's not the same as uhm lets say... Pit vs MK. Anyway, who cares. Wario isn't 2 times as better as Jiggly, so how is it like 'ditto-ing but the opponent is 2 times as good.' Jiggly doesn't have a bike, unlike wario, thats 1.

About killing. Jiggly EASILY can gimp Wario. If you fail at it, then practice instead of saying 'you'll fail at it'. No, we won't. Wario can't gimp jiggly. If you play gay and safe, you won't be killed that fast. Saying stuff like uair kills at 60% is bull, it might kill on Halberd, lol. What about jigglys airreleases into whatever? Anyway. I'll edit this post lader. (:

 

[Exegguter]

I lold after reading the first line xD

Edit; jiggs doesnt have an airrelease on wario unless the wario is stupid enough to not groundbreak, or you grab him offstage, which i believe is much more possible on stage like yi

 

[EraOfGames]

Cant we just all agree this is 60:40 wario's favour and move on to much bigger fears like snake/marth/gaw ?

Instead of focusing on terrible top/lhigh tier MUs, why not focus on low tiers where we can actually suceed lol. The reason why we discussed Wario is because someone brought it up and we'll discuss whatever little we can.

I lold after reading the first line xD

Edit; jiggs doesnt have an airrelease on wario unless the wario is stupid enough to not groundbreak, or you grab him offstage, which i believe is much more possible on stage like yi

^This. Even if you did get the grab off-stage, using Rest would be a suicidal kill.

 

[Exegguter]

Not if you grab wario on the upper platform of yi + if ud manage to get a grabrelease use fair instead

 

[ItoI6]

I'm actually doing pretty well against Wrios on lylat as a cp instead of RC and brinstar. its tilting and small platforms makes forcing an air release actually possible and its small enough to make scrooging during the period when fart is most dangerous an available option.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Instead of focusing on terrible top/lhigh tier MUs, why not focus on low tiers where we can actually suceed lol.

Ha ha yeah you know I was wondering if this board should shift gears and concentrate on low tiers for low tier tournies because let's be real- that's the only area where she actually has a chance to place decently or win in this game.

 

[B.Mack]

I lol'd so hard at that guy's long post.
I'm fairly sure a fresh uair would kill jiggs at 70% no matter how good your DI is. its just 10% difference from 60%, still deadly as ****.

Wario is better than jiggs in the areas that jiggs usually excels. thats why this MU is so bad for jiggs. grab release has even less application than rollout in this MU. please dont even mention it.

just look at the clock and scrooge from 6:40 until 6:00. I'm sure you can manage 40 seconds of stalling.


I think we should discuss Mario or Bowser or something. no real point discussing high tiers tbh.

 

[Ayoub]

I lol'd so hard at that guy's long post.
I'm fairly sure a fresh uair would kill jiggs at 70% no matter how good your DI is. its just 10% difference from 60%, still deadly as ****.

Wario is better than jiggs in the areas that jiggs usually excels. thats why this MU is so bad for jiggs. grab release has even less application than rollout in this MU. please dont even mention it.

just look at the clock and scrooge from 6:40 until 6:00. I'm sure you can manage 40 seconds of stalling.


I think we should discuss Mario or Bowser or something. no real point discussing high tiers tbh.

Why are you lolling, It's not even funny. And I have a name. (:

Yeah, it might kill if you counterpick Halberd against Wario, wich would be really dumb. But since a lot of people are dumb in life, I wouldn't be suprised if some jiggs-mains would do that. Jiggs doesnt excel in anything, what are you talking about. xD Okay.

Okay, if you say so. It's obvious you're just a bad-random-jiggs who doesn't know how to play gay at all. Stop playing jiggly if you're being so emo. Btw; scrooging =/= stalling.

Yes, 'cause discussing characters you barely see in tournaments really helps.

 

[Exegguter]

Btw; scrooging =/= stalling.

Yes, 'cause discussing characters you barely see in tournaments really helps.

This^


Also baron, iirc uair doesnt kill jiggs at 70... It kills at 85 and up, which is still deadly but not that early, snake's utilt kills at 70 or dedede's utilt... Unless ur talking bout jiggs being at the top of the upperscreen, but almost every uair kills here then...

 

[B.Mack]

I forgot what your name was and couldnt be bothered to go back to the last page and check.

I main Wario, not Jiggs.

Jiggs playing gay against Wario at any point except when I mentioned is kinda pointless bcos ur just building his fart and he's gonna get to you anyways.

i say uair kills at 70 because Wario is mostly gonna land it with you already in the air. not on the ground like with those utilts... but yeah I wasnt sure on the exact %

I suggested discussing Mario nd Bowser because they are very common in low tier tournaments, which is the only place Jiggs really has a chance of success. Just being realistic here.

I'm well aware that scrooging =/= stalling.

Jiggs biggest strength is her aerial mobility. and Wario's is better.

 

[Ayoub]

Why is he 'getting you anyway'.

 

[-LzR-]

Because there is nowhere for you to run, he is much faster and stronger than us.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Then run faster and try harder =D

 

[Maniclysane]

I could settle for 65:35 or 60:40, either is pretty much fine. I understand Wario can kill Jiggz pretty early and he's a pretty sly character, but horizontally his spacing isn't as good as jigglypuffs horizontal spacing. Vertically Wario wins without a doubt. His fart is better than our rest, but as long as you pay attention to the clock you could avoid Wario when the fart is at its strongest.

 

[Exegguter]

Hi, it's 60:40 now let's close this **** roflcopter lmao lol :L
Bye

 

[Ayoub]

Because there is nowhere for you to run, he is much faster and stronger than us.

3 letters:

L - O - L.

I hope ur trolling, otherwise you're really stupid.

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks for a good post... lol

Puff's greatest strengths are her great mobility, recovery and that's about it.

Wario is twice as good in both of those. Without your strengths your char kinda sucks.
Think of it sort of like a ditto except your opponent has a better Puff.

 

[Exegguter]

Wario doesn't have a better recovery then jiggs, wtf ur talking bout

 

[-LzR-]

They both have pretty much equally good recoveries. For Wario it actually matters more as he is also heavy so he is tough to kill.

 

[Exegguter]

Wario, is only heavier and has a lotttt more survival potential. If jiggs does survive things (somehow) her recovery is a lot better i never everr saw a good jiggs losing a stock cause of lack of recoverypotential such as link or mario falco or w.e. Wario can be gimped (eventhough its hard as ****) , good jiggs not.

 

[-LzR-]

Neither char should get gimped and Wario is a LOT heavier. And Wario kills like twice as fast. Do the math.

 

[Exegguter]

Puff's recovery is deff. still the better 1 <___<, if you're talking bout survival potential then of course wario wins. But recovery-only puff's is better it's imo top 3 best recoverys in the game, she just dies that early

 

[T-block]

Nah Wario can be gimped. D-air and n-air are really nice if he's forced to recover low.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

warios recover is as good with bike then jump then upb

 

[EraOfGames]

Think of it sort of like a ditto except your opponent has a better Puff.

It's not the same as playing Jigglypuff dittos because the characters have different tools.

 

[-LzR-]

^^O RLY?

It's just an example of what this MU is like. Both chars have same strenghts and Wario lacks her weaknesses.

 

[B.Mack]

good wario is as likely to get gimped as good jiggs. **** outta here if you actually think Jiggs has a chance in this MU.
Wario still beats Jiggs horizontally becuse he can wiggle SO much better. Jiggs only horizontal move that poses a threat is bair, bcos its so difficult to punish. dont even think about using pound, and fair is less safe against Wario than you might think.

if Wario jumps towards you and airdodges backwards (something a LOT of good Warios do) and you whiff any mve but bair, you're gonna eat a nair.

Plus, Wario actually has a ground game.

I wish jiggs had a move with super armor. would help out so much.

 

[Noobicidal]

I think this match up discussion has gone on for far too long. We'll stop with 35:65 for now.

If anyone has any suggestion as to what the next discussion should be, feel free to stop by the Compendium.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233873

 

[*JuriHan*]

I think this match up discussion has gone on for far too long. We'll stop with 35:65 for now.

Good call, Noob.

 

[B.Mack]

I think this match up discussion has gone on for far too long. We'll stop with 35:65 for now.

I approve of this post.

 

[Mr. game and watch]

i think we can aggree on 36:65

 

[B.Mack]

i think we can aggree on 36:65

I think we can agree that you cant add OR spell.

 

[-LzR-]

I think we can agree we have a grammar nazi among us.

 

[Noobicidal]

I think we can agree that we have a grammar Nazi among us.

I think we can agree; we have a grammar Nazi among us.

Most certainly!

Please keep discussion in this thread relevant to the topic at hand, which is the Jigglypuff/Wario match up.