Judging ME?

[stoneswithstand]

After losing to me a lot, my friend labeled me as an extremely defensive type. That my playing style was very defensive and I'm not offensive

I play as:
Sheik
Zelda
Diddy
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Pokemon Trainer


I know that none of you can tell since youre not watching me play but can any of these characters win with a defensive playing style?

I dont believe in categorized playing styles and I think that the way you play a character is the only thing that matters. I can't play as Snake. My friend can never play as Metaknight. Tiers are for queers.

 

[Vulcan55]

Brawl = defense
If you do that, you win.

 

[kr3wman]

My friend can never play as Metaknight. Tiers are for queers.

Your friend is a noobish noob if he can't do that, and Tiers list exist whether you like it or not.

Goodbye.

 

[stoneswithstand]

I never denied that a tier list should exist
Im saying that tiers mean very little or nothing when you have your own way of playing each character.

and wtf makes metaknight a worse than noob character?

 

[HeroMystic]

Brawl = defense
If you do that, you win.

QFT. Everyone can play defensively, some better than others though.

Link is a good example.

 

[znintendotaku]

AAAGGHH!!!
dammit what does QFT mean?

 

[Puddin]

AAAGGHH!!!
dammit what does QFT mean?

Hooray for being off-topic. It means Quoted For Truth.

It is true, there are tier lists for everything even things not related to video games. And Brawl is defensive and match based.

 

[stoneswithstand]

lol i didnt know either
urban dictionary: quoted for truth.

 

[kr3wman]

I never denied that a tier list should exist
Im saying that tiers mean very little or nothing when you have your own way of playing each character.

and wtf makes metaknight a worse than noob character?

You're just stupid if you think Tiers are there to say how people should play.

And I said that because Meta Knight is probably the easiest character to play with.

 

[znintendotaku]

thanks abunch

*world continues spinning*

 

[stoneswithstand]

You're just stupid if you think Tiers are there to say how people should play.

And I said that because Meta Knight is probably the easiest character to play with.

You're just stupid for assuming that my definition of tiers is a way to say how people should play.

And Metaknight is the easiest character to play with in your opinion. Is that a fact? Whatever. Lets just go with all our assumptions and opinions and dismiss the things that are facts and arent.

 

[kr3wman]

You're just stupid for assuming that my definition of tiers is a way to say how people should play.

And Metaknight is the easiest character to play with in your opinion. Is that a fact? Whatever. Lets just go with all our assumptions and opinions and dismiss the things that are facts and arent.

Im saying that tiers mean very little or nothing when you have your own way of playing each character.

Of course I am, of course.

 

[znintendotaku]

tires don exits nub!!!!!

 

[stoneswithstand]

I never denied that a tier list should exist
Im saying that tiers mean very little or nothing when you have your own way of playing each character.

There's your brain's stupid interpretation of what I said.

A tier is a series of levels from top to bottom. In brawl sense, the top tier characters are the best characters and the bottom tiers are the worst. What I'm saying is that the way you play Brawl isn't the same as everyone else. So your own personal tier (which comes from what characters you've had experience with) will be different from other tiers.
Tiers exist but don't mean **** since they are all different.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

After losing to me a lot, my friend labeled me as an extremely defensive type. That my playing style was very defensive and I'm not offensive

I play as:
Sheik
Zelda
Diddy
Bowser
Ice Climbers
Pokemon Trainer


I know that none of you can tell since youre not watching me play but can any of these characters win with a defensive playing style?

I dont believe in categorized playing styles and I think that the way you play a character is the only thing that matters. I can't play as Snake. My friend can never play as Metaknight. Tiers are for queers.

Grow up, tiers exist. Are you saying all 39 characters are perfectly balanced? I hate ignorant people like you.

Anyways, defence is very strong in Brawl so keep doing what you're doing if you want to win. Just play how you want to though, really.

 

[stoneswithstand]

Grow up, tiers exist. Are you saying all 39 characters are perfectly balanced? I hate ignorant people like you.

Awesome. Thanks

 

[kr3wman]

There's your brain's stupid interpretation of what I said.

A tier is a series of levels from top to bottom. In brawl sense, the top tier characters are the best characters and the bottom tiers are the worst. What I'm saying is that the way you play Brawl isn't the same as everyone else. So your own personal tier (which comes from what characters you've had experience with) will be different from other tiers.
Tiers exist but don't mean **** since they are all different.

That wouldn't be a tier list. Sorry, you will have to try to make sense.

 

[stoneswithstand]

what part of what I just told you made you think I was giving you a tier list??

I'm going to sleep. It will hit you hopefully by tomorrow. Hopefully

 

[kr3wman]

I see no list, but what you describe wouldn't have tiers. Just families of characters that fits one's playstyle.

That is far from what a Tier list is and what TR4Q noobs can't understand.

 

[stoneswithstand]

Family of characters??????

I'll give you the top and bottom of my tier list if you're having so much trouble understanding
Top Tier: Game and Watch and ROB
Bottom Tier: Snake, Yoshi, and Jigglypuff

I've only played in 2 tournies and with friends and from what I've seen and experienced, Snake sucks and so does Metaknight. And they seem to be the most popular top tier characters.

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

I've only played in 2 tournies and with friends and from what I've seen and experienced, Snake sucks and so does Metaknight. And they seem to be the most popular top tier characters.

I know these are from you're own expierences...but come on man... you're only fooling yourself...

P.S. Ganondorf and Metaknight would like to have a word with you.

 

[stoneswithstand]

My friends Ganondorf is amazing. I've played as Ganondorf, had an easier time than I did with Metaknight, and won more often.
And I don't have a Wii so I can't fight you

 

[xX Boezy Xx]

My friends Ganondorf is amazing. I've played as Ganondorf, had an easier time than I did with Metaknight, and won more often.
And I don't have a Wii so I can't fight you

I see. You're obviously a defensive player btw.

Anyway, if tiers are solely based on the way a person plays the character, why is there practically no diversity on the tournament scene? Loads of Snakes, Metaknights, and D3's are winning tourneys, but where are the Ganons? Wouldn't it be logical that if the characters were balanced and used to their full potential, anyone could win? Then why is there this paradox of no diversity?

P.S. I don't like tiers either, but I acknowledge them as fact. I still play Ganon, but I also second Metaknight. Both are fun for me. If you acknowledge the existence tiers, your game can only improve by the realization of your characters' weaknesses.

 

[stoneswithstand]

What is it with everyone thinking that I don't acknowledge tiers? I'm saying that everyone has a different tiers list.
I know that Snake, Metaknight, and Dedede are considered top tiers. But because my friends and I don't see Snake and Metaknight (I consider Dedede high tier) as top tier characters, doesn't that displace the accepted tier list?

I won my second tourny with Sheik against a Metaknight. I came in like 4th with Zelda on my first tourny. Apparently Sheik is low tier and if I used her to her full potential and beat an accepted high tier character, I'm not going to accept the popularized tier list. I'm going with my own tier list that most others disagree with. Which is fine cause none of us should put so much reliance on tiers anyways.

 

[Sosuke]

I play Snake online sometimes.
Judge me.
I LIKE TO HAVE FUN.
I'm not ashamed of it.

 

[Dark Hart]

stoneswithstand, thanks for making the rest of us 2008'ers look like idiots. -_-

 

[Agi]

What is it with everyone thinking that I don't acknowledge tiers? I'm saying that everyone has a different tiers list..

THANK YOU!

I've been waiting for someone to realize this. People claim all sorts of stuff like "fitting playstyles". But isn't it true that this is how tiers are developed? A high-level player finds a character that fits his/her own playstyle, then discovers AT's for that character. I'm certain that not every person who wins a tourney will be using snake or metaknight... because people PLAY BETTER with different characters! It's kinda like saying that "Being a Lawyer is a 'High Tier' Job." Not every smart person will become a lawyer, because people play the game of life differently. I have no IDEA why people refuse to realize this, and simply cling to their undeveloped tier lists. (Just so you all know, I actually find playing as so called "low tier" characters more fun than playing as the "God Tiers". People develop their own tier lists depending on playstyles, maybe based on the courses they play on. I'm sorry if you found this difficult or confusing to read. Agidius, out.)

 

[hippochinfat!!]

What is it with everyone thinking that I don't acknowledge tiers? I'm saying that everyone has a different tiers list.
I know that Snake, Metaknight, and Dedede are considered top tiers. But because my friends and I don't see Snake and Metaknight (I consider Dedede high tier) as top tier characters, doesn't that displace the accepted tier list?

I won my second tourny with Sheik against a Metaknight. I came in like 4th with Zelda on my first tourny. Apparently Sheik is low tier and if I used her to her full potential and beat an accepted high tier character, I'm not going to accept the popularized tier list. I'm going with my own tier list that most others disagree with. Which is fine cause none of us should put so much reliance on tiers anyways.

That's because the list is only for high level play.

Also, if you won a tourney with Sheik it just means you're better then them. Skill>Character, everyone knows that, or so I thought.

 

[stoneswithstand]

what are 2008'ers?

I have an irrelevant question for anyone who read this...
I keep hearing that there aren't any combos in brawl and I don't understand what they mean.
Explanation pleasee

 

[Judge Judy]

What that means is that almost all the atk strings in Brawl are escapable. There are actually some true combos in brawl but most of them are just small 2 hit combos. Juggling is a major thing in Brawl but juggling is escapable, just sometimes it's really hard and near impossible.

 

[stoneswithstand]

thanks

10char

 

[Zodiac]

I can't play as Snake. My friend can never play as Metaknight. Tiers are for queers.

Tiers are for people who want to win.

Brawl = defense
If you do that, you win.

QFT, in brawl there only one or two characters that can be applied effectively with a mostly offensive strategy

I never denied that a tier list should exist
Im saying that tiers mean very little or nothing when you have your own way of playing each character.

and wtf makes metaknight a worse than noob character?

1. Tiers have about %98 to do with it when you dont have a meta mind game built against your opponent, you play random person in tourney, you dont know their play style, tiers win. by the third match of the set the effectiveness of the tiers goes to around %60-%80 depending on the match up. it can get as low as %40-%50.

2. Meta knight is worse than a noob character because he's easy to pick up and he's top tier. One might say... hes the KING OF NOOB CHARACTERS.

 

[PwnyRide]

THANK YOU!

I've been waiting for someone to realize this. People claim all sorts of stuff like "fitting playstyles". But isn't it true that this is how tiers are developed?

No. Tier lists are constructed on the basis of tournament results.

A high-level player finds a character that fits his/her own playstyle, then discovers AT's for that character. I'm certain that not every person who wins a tourney will be using snake or metaknight... because people PLAY BETTER with different characters!

So, you're now linking the existence of AT's to where a character is placed in a tier list. Also may i remind you that it's common (or so i thought before this), that many a 'high-level player', as you put it, develop their skill playing a character dependant on their strengths over the rest of the cast.

Sure, there are 'high-level players' that main the more obscure characters, and no; there is no general standard for this, however, the former is moreso the case. Thus, certain characters take place at the top of tier lists.

It's kinda like saying that "Being a Lawyer is a 'High Tier' Job." Not every smart person will become a lawyer, because people play the game of life differently.

Not everything in law is burned into memory, theres simply too much information involved, therefore book reference is needed, nearly all of the time. There is no guidebook, however, that dictates a specific way you MUST play your character. See where this metaphor goes awry?

I have no IDEA ...

Exactly.

...why people refuse to realize this, and simply cling to their undeveloped tier lists. (Just so you all know, I actually find playing as so called "low tier" characters more fun than playing as the "God Tiers".

Contradiction. See first quote.

People develop their own tier lists depending on playstyles, maybe based on the courses they play on. I'm sorry if you found this difficult or confusing to read. Agidius, out.)

'Their own tier lists' mean squat.

 

[stoneswithstand]

Im so glad pwnyride didnt do me
I never knew tier lists were off tournament results and that dismisses everything I've been saying

Zelda players are the smartest out of all players.
hehehe

 

[PCHU]

You know, it just means he sucks.
Seriously, there's a flaw in EVERYONE'S gameplay, it's just that it's not too noticeable because we cover it up before anyone sees.
Like when people change their strategy in-game.
They cover up their old mistakes but unknowingly make new ones.

Tell your friend to shut up and think.

 

[Agi]

No. Tier lists are constructed on the basis of tournament results.



So, you're now linking the existence of AT's to where a character is placed in a tier list. Also may i remind you that it's common (or so i thought before this), that many a 'high-level player', as you put it, develop their skill playing a character dependant on their strengths over the rest of the cast.

Sure, there are 'high-level players' that main the more obscure characters, and no; there is no general standard for this, however, the former is moreso the case. Thus, certain characters take place at the top of tier lists.



Not everything in law is burned into memory, theres simply too much information involved, therefore book reference is needed, nearly all of the time. There is no guidebook, however, that dictates a specific way you MUST play your character. See where this metaphor goes awry?



Exactly.



Contradiction. See first quote.



'Their own tier lists' mean squat.

My whole point with the post (which you nicely dissected) was statistics. Statistically, as tier lists develop, more people will be flocking to the higher tier characters, and simultaniously away from the low tiers. As this happens, less ATs/combos/tricks/(things that give you an upper hand in a match) will be discovered for low tier levels, simply because there are less people PLAYING as those characters. Conversely, as there are more players using top tier characters, more techniques will be discovered for those levels.

For example, take 39 shapes, representing the 39 characters in brawl, of different sizes (depending on how high up they are on the tier list, higher = larger) and randomly, using a computer program, have dots appear on the screen. The shapes that are the largest will have the most clustering of dots (each representing ATs), and the smallest will have the least. Statistics, for ya.

Personal tier list=Something that shows the likelihood of succeeding with that particular character, depending on both how much they use that character and techniques that they know and use.

 

[pure_awesome]

No. Tier lists are constructed on the basis of tournament results.

Just before Brawl came out, Jigglypuff was winning more major Melee tournies than Sheik. Yet, Sheik was still higher.

Tiers are based on character potential first, tournament placing second. People just say it's about tournament placing because it's so much easier. Also, because tournament placing usually corresponds almost exactly with character potential.

It doesn't make any sense to say Metaknight is the best character in the game because he wins lots of tournaments. He's the best character in the game because he's... y'know, the best character in the game.

If Chuck Norris started playing Brawl, and won every tournament with Captain Falcon just because he was THAT much better than the rest of the players, it wouldn't magically make Wheeler top tier. He would still suck.



To jump back to the actual topic, I'm just going to agree that Brawl focuses on defense, and yes, all those characters are capable of playing fairly defensively, although Bowser is going to have a hell of a time doing it.

Final note, I'm surprised so many people are coming to take up arms against the idea of a personal tier list. Everyone's tier list is going to be different. I mean hell, I fully realize that DDD is an amazing character, but I suck with him. So for me, he's a middle tier character. My Falcon would smoke my DDD if they fought.