Canada [Jul 26, 2014] B.C. Brawl Monthlies - Back in business, now featuring Smash 64! (Burnaby, BC)

[breez]

In my mind, and the brawl communities mind, he is been empirically proven that MK deserves to be in competitive play. It's like arguing with a religious person at this point. There is no argument, or any amount of evidence that will ever change your mind.

Assuming what I just said is correct, it's fairly obvious to deduce how the entire situation has hurt the brawl community overall.

I'm not "presenting both sides of the argument" because there is no longer an argument to anyone good, competitive, reasonable, or unscrubby. Like I said before, considering no logic or evidence will ever "prove you wrong", the argument you present is completely moot.

For myself, on the other hand, all the scrubs over the years nearly convinced me that MK *was* imbalanced or unfair in some way. If it had ended up being clear that he had some significant or unfair advantage over other characters, then I would have conceded, and accepted the MK ban. Since this did not happen, myself (and i'm sure many others in the community) would just like the let the issue die. It does nothing for individual players or the community to even discuss it any longer. Your only argument is equivilent to stamping your feet on the ground and having a temper tantrum.

Learn the matchup. Players than decided to work on their strategy and metagame instead of fostering and creating imaginary bias have generally ended up really enjoying the MK matchup. That mentality alone is enough to give a massive advantage to the MK in the event that both players are equally skilled.

 

[Kantrip]

tHe TiMeOuT~

 

[| Big D |]

M2K is BC's Hero.

Also Mk is hella dumb and stupid and dumb.

Not ban worthy tho, just dumb and stupid and dumb.

(says the ICs main)

 

[Alacion]

I can learn the MK matchup as long as I can. My main still gets completely wrecked by one single move of MK. Every Peach player gets wrecked by him... even by MK players of a lower level than the Peach (points to Arizona).

I definitely believe MK unbalances the game but isn't so extremely bad that he deserves to be banned. I'm proud to be a scrub, but if you're a MK and you lose to a Peach... <3

 

[breez]

M2K is BC's Hero.

Also Mk is hella dumb and stupid and dumb.

Not ban worthy tho, just dumb and stupid and dumb.

Not as dumb as IC's.

M2K actually was the reason I swapped from snake to MK. I got lucky at tournyplay 2 and housed with him - he showed me how awesome MK was.

I am so happy for jason right now. **** eating grin and everything.

 

[breez]

I can learn the MK matchup as long as I can. My main still gets completely wrecked by one single move of MK. Every Peach player gets wrecked by him... even by MKs players of a lower level than the Peach.

I definitely believe MK unbalances the game but isn't so extremely bad that he deserves to be banned. I'm proud to be a scrub, but if you're a MK and you lose to a Peach... <3

I agree the matchup is very difficult for the peach.

Also, don't quit - we will all miss you ):

 

[Arcansi]

In my mind, and the brawl communities mind, he is been empirically proven that MK deserves to be in competitive play. It's like arguing with a religious person at this point. There is no argument, or any amount of evidence that will ever change your mind.

Assuming what I just said is correct, it's fairly obvious to deduce how the entire situation has hurt the brawl community overall.

I'm not "presenting both sides of the argument" because there is no longer an argument to anyone good, competitive, reasonable, or unscrubby. Like I said before, considering no logic or evidence will ever "prove you wrong", the argument you present is completely moot.

For myself, on the other hand, all the scrubs over the years nearly convinced me that MK *was* imbalanced or unfair in some way. If it had ended up being clear that he had some significant or unfair advantage over other characters, then I would have conceded, and accepted the MK ban. Since this did not happen, myself (and i'm sure many others in the community) would just like the let the issue die. It does nothing for individual players or the community to even discuss it any longer. Your only argument is equivilent to stamping your feet on the ground and having a temper tantrum.

Learn the matchup. Players than decided to work on their strategy and metagame instead of fostering and creating imaginary bias, have generally ended up really enjoying the MK matchup. That mentality alone is enough to give a massive advantage to the MK in the event that both players are equally skilled.

You've made a pretty big assumption that is wrong.

I concede and admit I am wrong on a ton of arguments. It comes from arguing as aggressively as I do, that I'm wrong a lot. Any sort of point I contest, I am willing to admit I am wrong about. If you don't want to believe this I cannot prove you, but that would just be you acting how you are accusing me of acting.

I could link you stuff of me conceding points, but you have it in my last post, so I don't know what to do here.

Your other points in the post are legitimate, but largely subjective. It depends how you define unfair and significant.

While having a good mentality vs MK is a good thing, I'm not saying he's unbeatable. Of course practicing helps you win the matchup.

[players] have generally ended up really enjoying the MK matchup

You should definitely prove this.

I also question why you aren't responding to my points. All of this is essentially a giant strawman.

I do hope you are actually interested in discussing this, but things do not look bright, here.

:fluttershy:

 

[| Big D |]

Ban I Cs.

 

[Alacion]

I like the MK matchup. But for reasons that are obvious, I really dislike it as well.

People won't miss me.

 

[Kantrip]

I have missed everyone, and you are not excluded. If you were to abandon the community, I would miss you for sure.

 

[Alacion]

Thanks <3

But I'm just stressing myself out by remaining here. These past few weeks I have avoided this thread and as a result, I have been seeing my other friends a lot more as well as enjoying Skyrim (no stress at all).

 

[Kantrip]

Is it the game or the people?

 

[Alacion]

I still love Peach like I always have.

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah but where's the stress coming from?

 

[Alacion]

By being the only person who cares about certain things and I'm usually left ignored when I voice my thoughts. I also get mad over it. Also, being around certain people is really not enjoyable to me and it makes me want to leave the building.

Must be a generation gap.

Enough drama though. Go watch Apex!

 

[Arcansi]

By being the only person who cares about certain things and I'm usually left ignored when I voice my thoughts. I also get mad over it. Also, being around certain people is really not enjoyable to me and it makes me want to leave the building.

Must be a generation gap.

I feel the same way, for different reasons.

It's funny, being around certain people isn't all that enjoyable but its like they only want to hate me online.

 

[breez]

You've made a pretty big assumption that is wrong.

I concede and admit I am wrong on a ton of arguments. It comes from arguing as aggressively as I do, that I'm wrong a lot. Any sort of point I contest, I am willing to admit I am wrong about. If you don't want to believe this I cannot prove you, but that would just be you acting how you are accusing me of acting.

I could link you stuff of me conceding points, but you have it in my last post, so I don't know what to do here.

Your other points in the post are legitimate, but largely subjective. It depends how you define unfair and significant.

While having a good mentality vs MK is a good thing, I'm not saying he's unbeatable. Of course practicing helps you win the matchup.



You should definitely prove this.

I also question why you aren't responding to my points. All of this is essentially a giant strawman.

I do hope you are actually interested in discussing this, but things do not look bright, here.

:fluttershy:

No. Like I said, i'm sick of arguing. My post history over the years have many, many passionate and long-winded arguments. There needs to be a point where "enough is enough", and I am only willing to go so far with my arguments. Like I said, it's been proven empircally.

And don't be condescending. As if I don't know what a strawman argument is. Like you said, at this point, the argument is unproved and impossible to discuss objectively. MK is not a "problem" to any of the top players in BC, or in the world. Which leads me to the logical conclusion that mindset is the major thing holding back "MK haters".

I remember a tournament where I 2 stocked landon both games. It might have been in pools. It was pretty gay, and I got him with some MK janks. He was not happy, but what did he do? He practiced, kept a positive outlook, and now beats me handily and really enjoys the matchup.

Jake, Bryan, Jason, Landon, Dawson, and myself all believe MK should be left in play. And the smarter ones (even if they hate MK as a character) agree he should be left.

Look at the gay **** diddy can pull off, or IC's, or even falcon. I ****ing hate the Ice Climbers, and I think they are a stupid character. But I love the challenge, and if I could make my own life easier, I could obviously write a very good writeup on why IC's should be banned; and i'm sure it would be very convincing.

Just let it go now. It's personal opinion on a purely subjective matter. There is no longer any point to arguing. I'm not saying things won't change in the future if the metagame shifts - but for right now, it hurts players, and it hurts the community.

Not to mention that it undermines the absolute countless hours I have spent practicing and refining my character. I remember back in the day IC's were considered nowhere near as good because even the top players couldn't consistently preform the chaingrab. Then people like Dawson came along, and put in the practice and effort to perfect a technique. Do IC's deserve to be banned, and all of Dawsons hard work be undermined and discredited simply because I am not willing to come up with a new strategy?

As my final, and hopefully effective point, I want to point to the beloved game of Starcraft. There was a point in time that Terran simply DOMINATED Zerg. For the period of about 1-1.5 years, Terran had a 70-75% winrate OVERALL against Zerg. This was a game being played at the highest level of any game ever before. There were hundreds of thousands of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of fans involved.

Did blizzard nerf the **** out of Terran? No, they did not. And thank God. Because an amazing and innovative player named Savior came along. He revolutionized his race, and the game in general - by utilizing a strategy that would become immortalized in the history of the game. He came up with a strategy, after a year and a half, at the highest level of competitive gaming, that completely changed the game.

I believe he acheived an 80% winnrate against Terran that year, and brought the entire Zerg race up to a 60% overall advantage. If Terran had been nerfed, or even worse, "banned", then...well...it saddens me to think. To the gamers such as myself that were lucky enough to witness this, it taught us a very valuable lesson. And it was that innovation and strategy, passion and integrity, could overcome a literally seemingly impossible deficit.

These days, if a situation like that arose, impatient and unpassionate players would have a meltdown. We (gamers in general) will probably never be fortunate enough to see such a huge paradigm shift at such a high level of play. And simply put, if Terran had been nerfed, and Savoir didn't prove something absolutely incredible, the entire face of e-sports as we know it could be completely and utterly different.

So there - that is why I feel so strongly about this ridiculousness being carried on.

 

[breez]

I like the MK matchup. But for reasons that are obvious, I really dislike it as well.

People won't miss me.

I will. I think you're a cool guy. I will certainly convince you to hang out and play when I move to Van in feb

 

[| Big D |]

I happen to know Sonic is banned at your place.

Your point is invalid.

 

[Asa]

Invalid argument cuz I'm da beas

 

[breez]

I happen to know Sonic is banned at your place.

Your point is invalid.

House rules ≠ Competitive play

 

[Arcansi]

No. Like I said, i'm sick of arguing. My post history over the years have many, many passionate and long-winded arguments. There needs to be a point where "enough is enough", and I am only willing to go so far with my arguments. Like I said, it's been proven empircally.

And like I said, it hasn't. The problem is, I'm right here. You haven't proven anything, and without any proof, I am correct on this, because my point does not need any.

And don't be condescending. As if I don't know what a strawman argument is. Like you said, at this point, the argument is unproved and impossible to discuss objectively. MK is not a "problem" to any of the top players in BC, or in the world. Which leads me to the logical conclusion that mindset is the major thing holding back "MK haters".

I don't know what you know or do not know. All you seem to do is strawman, and yet you admit that it's a logical fallacy. You seem to care not about actually discussing the point but only about saying your points over and over. This is a lot like how you were saying I was acting in your previous post.

Also, I would guess at this point you don't know what proof is.

In the world? You can prove this? It means nothing if you cannot.

I remember a tournament where I 2 stocked landon both games. It might have been in pools. It was pretty gay, and I got him with some MK janks. He was not happy, but what did he do? He practiced, kept a positive outlook, and now beats me handily and really enjoys the matchup.

Jake, Bryan, Jason, Landon, Dawson, and myself all believe MK should be left in play. And the smarter ones (even if they hate MK as a character) agree he should be left.

This is relevant because?

Look at the gay **** diddy can pull off, or IC's, or even falcon. I ****ing hate the Ice Climbers, and I think they are a stupid character. But I love the challenge, and if I could make my own life easier, I could obviously write a very good writeup on why IC's should be banned; and i'm sure it would be very convincing.

This is also relevant because?

Just let it go now. It's personal opinion on a purely subjective matter. There is no longer any point to arguing. I'm not saying things won't change in the future if the metagame shifts - but for right now, it hurts players, and it hurts the community.

Until you prove something, nothing here is relevant either.

Not to mention that it undermines the absolute countless hours I have spent practicing and refining my character. I remember back in the day IC's were considered nowhere near as good because even the top players couldn't consistently preform the chaingrab. Then people like Dawson came along, and put in the practice and effort to perfect a technique. Do IC's deserve to be banned, and all of Dawsons hard work be undermined and discredited simply because I am not willing to come up with a new strategy?

1. There were people who put countless hours of play into perfecting Akuma. He was still banned. You could literally have put your whole life into playing Akuma in SFT, doesn't make a case for unbanning him.

As my final, and hopefully effective point, I want to point to the beloved game of Starcraft. There was a point in time that Terran simply DOMINATED Zerg. For the period of about 1-1.5 years, Terran had a 70-75% winrate OVERALL against Zerg. This was a game being played at the highest level of any game ever before. There were hundreds of thousands of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of fans involved.

Yup.

Did blizzard nerf the **** out of Terran? No, they did not. And thank God. Because an amazing and innovative player named Savior came along. He revolutionized his race, and the game in general - by utilizing a strategy that would become immortalized in the history of the game. He came up with a strategy, after a year and a half, at the highest level of competitive gaming, that completely changed the game.

Okay.

I believe he acheived an 80% winnrate against Terran that year, and brought the entire Zerg race up to a 60% overall advantage. If Terran had been nerfed, or even worse, "banned", then...well...it saddens me to think. To the gamers such as myself that were lucky enough to witness this, it taught us a very valuable lesson. And it was that innovation and strategy, passion and integrity, could overcome a literally seemingly impossible deficit.

If terran had been nerfed, you would have been playing a different game. I don't know the exact details of the situation (although I had heard about it before this), so I can't make in-depth points, but there are likely points on both sides.

These days, if a situation like that arose, impatient and unpassionate players would have a meltdown. We (gamers in general) will probably never be fortunate enough to see such a huge paradigm shift at such a high level of play. And simply put, if Terran had been nerfed, and Savoir didn't prove something absolutely incredible, the entire face of e-sports as we know it could be completely and utterly different.

This makes no point at all to anything. You told a touching story. There is no new tech coming into brawl. And even if there was, it isn't here yet.

Changes should be made based on the current standings of things, not the future possibilities.

Or would you call abortion murder because it kills the possibility of a child?

So there - that is why I feel so strongly about this ridiculousness being carried on.

You mean not being carried on, correct?

House rules ≠ Competitive play

So you don't practice upholding competitive play, but want to advocate upholding it elsewhere.

Unless this is a joke.

 

[Kantrip]

salemmmmmmmm

and a non-top tier character wins apex

 

[Alacion]

Oh grats to him. I missed it since I was watching Melee GF.

 

[_GrapE_]

Nobody would ever believe me. But a while ago I said to myself that ZSS will be the new character to pick.
Months ago.

 

[breez]

That was orgasmic. Best brawl moment yet. My God.

 

[Kantrip]

The epitome of last hit.

 

[Alacion]

Bye guys. I'll be on MSN/Skype if anybody wants to talk in the future.

Mike ban me please.

 

[breez]

And like I said, it hasn't. The problem is, I'm right here. You haven't proven anything, and without any proof, I am correct on this, because my point does not need any.



I don't know what you know or do not know. All you seem to do is strawman, and yet you admit that it's a logical fallacy. You seem to care not about actually discussing the point but only about saying your points over and over. This is a lot like how you were saying I was acting in your previous post.

Also, I would guess at this point you don't know what proof is.

In the world? You can prove this? It means nothing if you cannot.



This is relevant because?



This is also relevant because?



Until you prove something, nothing here is relevant either.



1. There were people who put countless hours of play into perfecting Akuma. He was still banned. You could literally have put your whole life into playing Akuma in SFT, doesn't make a case for unbanning him.




Yup.




Okay.




If terran had been nerfed, you would have been playing a different game. I don't know the exact details of the situation (although I had heard about it before this), so I can't make in-depth points, but there are likely points on both sides.



This makes no point at all to anything. You told a touching story. There is no new tech coming into brawl. And even if there was, it isn't here yet.

Changes should be made based on the current standings of things, not the future possibilities.

Or would you call abortion murder because it kills the possibility of a child?




You mean not being carried on, correct?



So you don't practice upholding competitive play, but want to advocate upholding it elsewhere.

Unless this is a joke.

You're hopeless. Nevermind.

 

[Jason!]

I'm juss saying guys.

http://imgur.com/KyI5b

Spoiler

I'ma fraud

 

[~Firefly~]

Look at the gay **** diddy can pull off, or IC's, or even falcon.

or even falcon.

falcon.

Good to see the incredible hype that was Apex prompted this thread to go full ****** again.

...I mean, Falcon? Come ON

 

[breez]

Good to see the incredible hype that was Apex prompted this thread to go full ****** again.

...I mean, Falcon? Come ON

terpdederp ):

 

[traffic.]

in reference to the amount of "gay ****" something is capable of, falcon seems right at home in that sentence.

 

[Lib3r4t3]

No. Like I said, i'm sick of arguing. My post history over the years have many, many passionate and long-winded arguments. There needs to be a point where "enough is enough", and I am only willing to go so far with my arguments. Like I said, it's been proven empircally.

And don't be condescending. As if I don't know what a strawman argument is. Like you said, at this point, the argument is unproved and impossible to discuss objectively. MK is not a "problem" to any of the top players in BC, or in the world. Which leads me to the logical conclusion that mindset is the major thing holding back "MK haters".

I remember a tournament where I 2 stocked landon both games. It might have been in pools. It was pretty gay, and I got him with some MK janks. He was not happy, but what did he do? He practiced, kept a positive outlook, and now beats me handily and really enjoys the matchup.

Jake, Bryan, Jason, Landon, Dawson, and myself all believe MK should be left in play. And the smarter ones (even if they hate MK as a character) agree he should be left.

Look at the gay **** diddy can pull off, or IC's, or even falcon. I ****ing hate the Ice Climbers, and I think they are a stupid character. But I love the challenge, and if I could make my own life easier, I could obviously write a very good writeup on why IC's should be banned; and i'm sure it would be very convincing.

Just let it go now. It's personal opinion on a purely subjective matter. There is no longer any point to arguing. I'm not saying things won't change in the future if the metagame shifts - but for right now, it hurts players, and it hurts the community.

Not to mention that it undermines the absolute countless hours I have spent practicing and refining my character. I remember back in the day IC's were considered nowhere near as good because even the top players couldn't consistently preform the chaingrab. Then people like Dawson came along, and put in the practice and effort to perfect a technique. Do IC's deserve to be banned, and all of Dawsons hard work be undermined and discredited simply because I am not willing to come up with a new strategy?

As my final, and hopefully effective point, I want to point to the beloved game of Starcraft. There was a point in time that Terran simply DOMINATED Zerg. For the period of about 1-1.5 years, Terran had a 70-75% winrate OVERALL against Zerg. This was a game being played at the highest level of any game ever before. There were hundreds of thousands of dollars, and hundreds of thousands of fans involved.

Did blizzard nerf the **** out of Terran? No, they did not. And thank God. Because an amazing and innovative player named Savior came along. He revolutionized his race, and the game in general - by utilizing a strategy that would become immortalized in the history of the game. He came up with a strategy, after a year and a half, at the highest level of competitive gaming, that completely changed the game.

I believe he acheived an 80% winnrate against Terran that year, and brought the entire Zerg race up to a 60% overall advantage. If Terran had been nerfed, or even worse, "banned", then...well...it saddens me to think. To the gamers such as myself that were lucky enough to witness this, it taught us a very valuable lesson. And it was that innovation and strategy, passion and integrity, could overcome a literally seemingly impossible deficit.

These days, if a situation like that arose, impatient and unpassionate players would have a meltdown. We (gamers in general) will probably never be fortunate enough to see such a huge paradigm shift at such a high level of play. And simply put, if Terran had been nerfed, and Savoir didn't prove something absolutely incredible, the entire face of e-sports as we know it could be completely and utterly different.

So there - that is why I feel so strongly about this ridiculousness being carried on.

And like I said, it hasn't. The problem is, I'm right here. You haven't proven anything, and without any proof, I am correct on this, because my point does not need any.



I don't know what you know or do not know. All you seem to do is strawman, and yet you admit that it's a logical fallacy. You seem to care not about actually discussing the point but only about saying your points over and over. This is a lot like how you were saying I was acting in your previous post.

Also, I would guess at this point you don't know what proof is.

In the world? You can prove this? It means nothing if you cannot.



This is relevant because?



This is also relevant because?



Until you prove something, nothing here is relevant either.



1. There were people who put countless hours of play into perfecting Akuma. He was still banned. You could literally have put your whole life into playing Akuma in SFT, doesn't make a case for unbanning him.




Yup.




Okay.




If terran had been nerfed, you would have been playing a different game. I don't know the exact details of the situation (although I had heard about it before this), so I can't make in-depth points, but there are likely points on both sides.



This makes no point at all to anything. You told a touching story. There is no new tech coming into brawl. And even if there was, it isn't here yet.

Changes should be made based on the current standings of things, not the future possibilities.

Or would you call abortion murder because it kills the possibility of a child?




You mean not being carried on, correct?



So you don't practice upholding competitive play, but want to advocate upholding it elsewhere.

Unless this is a joke.

I really want Arcansi to read these two by themselves without context, and ask himself, honestly and seriously, who is the one who isn't bringing up "proof" about the topic on hand.

So is MK banned in BC still, or no? Because I'm really curious about that.

 

[Yakal]

Good to see the incredible hype that was Apex prompted this thread to go full ****** again.

...I mean, Falcon? Come ON

I like your Avatar.

 

[Jason!]

You obviously haven't seen Jake's true avatar.

 

[traffic.]

man, it's true, everyone looks good with a mask and a sweet sword.

 

[Jason!]

Don't forget the little wings~

 

[SinisterB]

dem cute wings

also

 

[`dazrin]

Brawl at APEX2013 was pretty hype lol. I especially enjoyed watching Brawl WFs though. Maaad respect to M2K for learning to nevergiveup and for his amazing performance all throughout APEX2013. Was really happy to see some great sportsmanship from him when he lost GFs. Salem straight up pulled an Armada- Came out of nowhere and dominated. Huge props to him.

So much hype. Next stop, G3NESIS. Who's going!? ;D