Jump Cancel Fox Shine?

[keRnjiro]

So yeah, just got my hands on Brawl+, and put brawl in for the first time since the first month it came out. I was more than pleased, very well done hacking community.

The only things that put me off were the auto l-cancels, the lack of wavedashing, and it was annoying, as a fox main in melee, to not be able to jump out of my shine.

I got my hands on some codes to wavedash and to l-cancel that I haven't checked out yet... couldn't find one for jumping out of the shine.

If I could waveshine in brawl, well, well that'd just be great.

And if the codes out there, sorry, I tried looking but I can't search for some reason.

 

[Sukai]

Well, believe it or not, the Plussery project isn't trying to make Brawl+ another Melee.
Wavedashing/directional air dodging was already decided to not be in Brawl+ and manual L-cancelling from what I've heard is impossible to implement.

 

[timothyung]

You can use two codes two waveshine in brawl:
Melee Air Dodge
Generalized Super Code
Though the result will not be what you expected and wavedashing will never appear in any official Brawl+ codesets.

 

[keRnjiro]

you people are putting words in my mouth, i never said anything about adding this to brawl+

i know a lot of melee players who would wan't brawl to just be an updated melee, with added advanced techniques instead of taking away. wavelanding was awesome in melee.

so i just pretty much want my own set of codes to play brawl for fun maybe with some columbus melee people. in this will be the brawl+ update, the wavedash update(unless its lame), the l-cancel update (unless its lame), roy and pichu and doc (if that ever happens and i don't have to replace marth, pikachu, and mario), and fox jump cancelled shine.

c'mon, aren't some of you hackers melee fans?

 

[timothyung]

I'm quite sure a code can be made to let you jump out of shines. But first you have to get someone to help you. The Generalized Super Code will let you do anything out of any moves, so you can jump out of your shine with it. Oh, and the Manual L-Cancel code is still buggy, you better use the auto one, Manual L-Canceling add no depth to the game anyways.

 

[keRnjiro]

l-cancelling just added a little slope to the learning curve

that's the greatest thing about melee, you can play for years and still not master everything.

 

[V-K]

You can use the MAD code for wavedashing but it doesn´t work correctly because you have no landing lag after WD.
If that worked I would also use it.

 

[metaXzero]

You can use the MAD code for wavedashing but it doesn´t work correctly because you have no landing lag after WD.
If that worked I would also use it.

They did add lag to it (or they added lag to the Hybrid airdodge).

Anyway, no one made a jump-out-of-shine code for Fox (besides the Super code), so you'll have to find someone to make it.

 

[kupo15]

Almas said that he was thinking about making a legit l cancel code after brawl+ goes gold and you can add lag to air dodges...but you are missing the special landing animation that has the perfect frames of lag. The only animations you can do are the actual fall special lag from a side b or up b, shield drop lag possibly. or you can just decide to use the fall special lag and speed up the animation to 10 frames and accept the fact that you can recover a little quicker for a missed sweet spot. But then again, that wouldn't be the best because everyone has different lengths so one wave dash would have less lag than the other. So going with the shield drop lag might be your best bet using the conditional action modifier

 

[keRnjiro]

WTB hacker who was a fox main in melee?

 

[Sukai]

I think leafgreen mained Fox in Melee, but that's purely an assumption.

 

[storm92]

I think leafgreen mained Fox in Melee, but that's purely an assumption.

Yes, he did.

Use the MAD/HAD code, the beta L-canceling, and whatever else you want...it just won't be the official set and I hope you let people know that when you show them.
I'm a Melee fan, but some things don't belong in Brawl+.

 

[metaXzero]

"belong"? More like "don't need". It'd be nice, but the community just doesn't want MAD/HAD and L-cancel.

TC knows that. He already replied how he and his buds in Columbus would like a Melee-esque Brawl instead of Brawl+

 

[Sukai]

"belong"? More like "don't need". It'd be nice, but the community just doesn't want MAD/HAD and L-cancel.

TC knows that. He already replied how he and his buds in Columbus would like a Melee-esque Brawl instead of Brawl+

You lost me on the l-cancelling.
Personally, I'd love to have manual l-cancelling.

 

[kupo15]

"belong"? More like "don't need". It'd be nice, but the community just doesn't want MAD/HAD and L-cancel.

TC knows that. He already replied how he and his buds in Columbus would like a Melee-esque Brawl instead of Brawl+

Well, wavedashing is amazing but the brawl engine just does it terribly and I think that mostly everything that was in the past two games should remain in here but that obviously is not want the community wants. Melee is the pinnacle of smash but the brawl engine just handles melee things really poorly that it detracts from the game instead of adds. I would like MLC as many know but oh well

 

[Deleted member]

I'd love having to press and hold the D-pad in every direction to be able to move.
And metaXzero, wavedashing didn't *belong* in Brawl+, a lot of the work going into balancing it would have to be redone to adapt to wavedashing.

 

[Dan_X]

manual L-canceling would ruin Brawl+. The community decided against it.

 

[Sph34r]

Well... it seems enough people want it, why not make it as a side project?

 

[metaXzero]

I'd love having to press and hold the D-pad in every direction to be able to move.
And metaXzero, wavedashing didn't *belong* in Brawl+, a lot of the work going into balancing it would have to be redone to adapt to wavedashing.

I could say Dash canceling doesn't belong in Brawl+ (for various reasons). People will disagree, but I can still say that. (though I like DC).

Wavedashing and L-cancel aren't needs (or shall I say...anti-needs?). They're wants/do not wants and most of the community doesn't want them. Their is no "*insert w/e* doesn't belong in Brawl+". It's all opinion. Heck, the TC has his own vision of modded Brawl, but isn't trying to change the community. Just have fun with friends.

 

[Sukai]

manual L-canceling would ruin Brawl+. The community decided against it.

When the hell did this poll take place?

 

[_Yes!_]

manual L-canceling would ruin Brawl+. The community decided against it.

God forbid a game takes skill to be good at it .

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Yeah, because L cancelling takes all kinds of skill to do. /sarcasm

The community decided against it because ultimately there's no situation where you wouldn't want to L Cancel. You lose no options by making it automatic, and the game becomes more accessible.

There's no point in Manual L cancelling, it adds nothing to the game, and once you learn it, it's simply muscle memory. No uber tech skill involved. You just hit a button.

 

[Sukai]

L-cancelling varied on the character, because you'd have to learn their aerials properly and when to L-cancel.
It adds a sense of depth with both character and player.
And if it's piss easy like you make it out to be, then the accessibility shouldn't be that sharply reduced.

 

[metaXzero]

^The problems with L-cancel was that it was arbitrary tech skill and it was a "do or die" mechanic. It's like if everytime you'd want to run or walk, you have to press a button with every footstep. No one wants that type of arbitrary tech skill, ergo they don't want to always press a button everytime they land after in attack animation.

Only way that this community would accept L-cancel is if their was a reason NOT to L-cancel. Magus once suggested a code where L-cancels drastically reduced your shield.

 

[Revven]

L-cancelling varied on the character, because you'd have to learn their aerials properly and when to L-cancel.
It adds a sense of depth with both character and player.

But once learned it's not hard to do at all. It takes 30 seconds to understand when to L-Cancel with a different character. It's not adding depth, at all. All it does is make it seem like you have depth because you pressed a button, it achieves the same effect that the reduced lag does...

 

[Sukai]

"Seems like"?
Whatever.

 

[timothyung]

Biggest problem with manual L-canceling: It makes your controller worn out faster.
/offtopic
keRnjiro, try posting in the code request thread or else where, hopefully someone will make the code

 

[V-K]

I tried Hybrid Air Dodge and it didn´t work very well.
In Melee the character crouched after wavedashing and in Brawl he doesn´t so your character oftens just turns around after wavedashing which is really dumb.

If someone makes a working wavedashing code I would perhaps use it.

 

[keRnjiro]

Well after figuring out how to add the wavedashing code to brawl+, i spent the whole of yesterday in glee. I still press L when i land, but the auto-cancel isn't really so bad. The dynamics of brawl plus feel very smooth.

And i acutally LIKE the new wavedashing better. Seems more useful in brawl once you get it down, people like peach actually have a decent wavedash. Oh man, I was so happy being able to waveland on platforms.

I don't think I'm ever gonna play melee or brawl again... This is where it's at. I hope the brawl+ community catches on, the wd code is amazing.

 

[metaXzero]

Well after figuring out how to add the wavedashing code to brawl+, i spent the whole of yesterday in glee. I still press L when i land, but the auto-cancel isn't really so bad. The dynamics of brawl plus feel very smooth.

And i acutally LIKE the new wavedashing better. Seems more useful in brawl once you get it down, people like peach actually have a decent wavedash. Oh man, I was so happy being able to waveland on platforms.

I don't think I'm ever gonna play melee or brawl again... This is where it's at. I hope the brawl+ community catches on, the wd code is amazing.

yeeeeaaah...

The reasons you like the Brawl wavedash more then Melee's are......the reason the Brawl+ community DOESN'T like Brawl's Wavedash. :/

 

[keRnjiro]

Meh, wavelanding is my favorite mindgame, and wavedashing still doesnt seem much faster or more useful than melee, and it was really mostly just a gimmick in melee.

I hated that about all my friends who wanted to get good at melee, they assumed that wavedashing was so super-cool and that's why I was good at melee, when really the only thing it was good for was trying to move backward out of hit range while still facing them, or getting on the ledge.

Really, I think rolling backwards is more effective for getting out of the way of an attack... and now that you can grab on the ledge backwards, wavedashing isn't going to flip brawl upside-down.

I don't understand why wavedashing would ruin brawl? "OMG ANOTHER DIMENSION OF GAMEPLAY?! They already added dash cancelling!"

Kinda seems like all the brawl fanboys and fangirls just wanted their game to be good so bad that they convinced themselves that melee was evil or something, now that all these melee techniques are coming back, they think its blasphemous, while still saying "oh wow this is faster and more fun"

just accept it, melee was the ****, and brawl shoulda taken that and ADDED more stuff on top of it instead of taking away everything that made it a competitive game.

BRAWL+ + WD = the way the game shoulda been released in the first place.

 

[timothyung]

Just play however way as you like as long as you have fun with it. If you prefer MAD, just go ahead and play with it.

 

[Revven]

BRAWL+ + WD = the way the game shoulda been released in the first place.

We'd gladly have WD if it was possible to make WD work right but, it just doesn't. Everybody has a Luigi wavedash and you can stack them. PW said there is no real way to add lag onto the WD like there is in Melee. It's a mechanic that just doesn't work like it should in Brawl. Plus, the Melee Air Dodge really hurts the air game and makes you VERY vulnerable to projectiles like Din's Fire and it would only make edgeguarding even easier (and combos even more ridiculous).

It's been debated, you can have MAD in your own Brawl+ if you want but the official one is staying out of that realm for the reasons above: it's a lot of work to try and make WDing work right and would throw off the balance we've been working on for the last four months (since we started balancing chars).

 

[keRnjiro]

We'd gladly have WD if it was possible to make WD work right but, it just doesn't. Everybody has a Luigi wavedash and you can stack them. PW said there is no real way to add lag onto the WD like there is in Melee. It's a mechanic that just doesn't work like it should in Brawl. Plus, the Melee Air Dodge really hurts the air game and makes you VERY vulnerable to projectiles like Din's Fire and it would only make edgeguarding even easier (and combos even more ridiculous).

It's been debated, you can have MAD in your own Brawl+ if you want but the official one is staying out of that realm for the reasons above: it's a lot of work to try and make WDing work right and would throw off the balance we've been working on for the last four months (since we started balancing chars).

wouldn't adjusting character friction work?

edit: there was lag on the wd in melee? and why does it make you more vulnerable? bc u can only air dodge once?

 

[Sukai]

Brawl was configured to work with non directional air dodging.
Think how MAD would affect some characters, Zelda would be broken, Snake (Nikita), Pit, all these characters would be far too good and that's just for edge guards, combos would be in the league of 64, every character having a 0-death on everyone.

And Meta Knight would be God of Edgeguards.

They would have to change too much just so MAD would fit.

 

[Revven]

wouldn't adjusting character friction work?

edit: there was lag on the wd in melee? and why does it make you more vulnerable? bc u can only air dodge once?

1) Yes that would but, that also unnecessarily nerfs character's DACUS (and there are specific characters who use that quite often, especially Wolf).

2) Yes, there was lag so you couldn't stack WDs, about 10 frames. It makes you more vulnerable because you cannot AD many projectiles or combos, and since DIing certain moves usually doesn't work well combos will be even better. (Some moves just don't allow enough room to DI).

Basically, what knuxrouge said.

 

[Rudra]

While wavedashing cant be worked in, I'd hope something like Wavelanding could be looked into at least.

 

[Magus420]

The 'special' landing lag on WDs in Melee was simply the regular landing animation (30 frames) played at 3.00x speed and not IASA-able (10 frames).

You could probably have it so when you land during an airdodge it sets the flag for recovery carryover lag to on (makes the next landing as not IASA-able), and use the hard landing animation played at 3.00x speed resulting in 10 frames of lag that looks the same as it did before.

Seems doable. The only other thing would be character specific traction which I think is/was going to be worked on eventually anyway.

 

[FSLink]

And people who want Melee L-Canceling are also forgetting that in Brawl, to register the L press, you have to push the button ALL THE WAY DOWN. I tried out the L-Canceling code, and I didn't realize that most of the time in Melee I just pushed it half way, and it's pretty annoying to try to readjust for a mechanic that's just muscle memory. And like others said, there's usually very few reasons and situations to not L-Cancel if you know how.

 

[Rudra]

Seems doable. The only other thing would be character specific traction which I think is/was going to be worked on eventually anyway.

Is there any way to implement Char. Specific Friction without signifigantly cutting the lengths of DACUS slides though? :/

Oh, and FSLink, the game does appear to notice the lighter button presses, but it just doesnt do anything with them (or at least thats what PK said I think).