Killing yourself when alone viable tactic?

[meepxzero]

Was thinking about all the games people time out on me.... (one thing i hate most about brawl) and came to the conclusion fighting your heart and soul out with popo alone hurts more than it really helps. You spend a good minute or 2 trying to land hits to kill and build damage. So I feel it is crucial to suicide if your pretty much high percent and alone and hope for a cg to death next stock .

Discuss please!

 

[C~Dog]

Definitely not. Having a lone Popo is better than both Popo and Nana and minus a stock. If you kill yourself, you are just wasting the stock you have left, as any damage you can deal to your opponent before losing a stock will help you when you finally do get killed.

Even with the timing out aspect i'd say no, unless you are leading by two stock. It is not worth going down a point if you are even to try and gain a small advantage.

 

[illinialex24]

Watch Lain play. I've seen him on streams and videos and sometimes I think his Popo is better than both his IC's together they are that vicious. I would say no because you can actually benefit a fair amount with just popo.

 

[meepxzero]

I would only really do this on certain match ups. These include metaknight and gaw if im really down stocks and maybe marth. All these characters dont mind hitting u with weak attacks till your at 200%. This can be a form of stalling by ur opponent that can back fire on you and until it is too late your screwed. I remember a diddy i played at cot4 who did nothing but banana throwing and grabbing me. Needless to say i was fighting hard the entire set and it was about to time out with him having the percent advantage.

I do believe some times solo popo can throw people off, but if they camp popo as hard as they did with two climbers then it just seems like a waste of time racking dmg.

 

[Teh Future]

Yeah but no one ever camps single popo because there's no threat of being chaingrabed. At least in my expierence, but I don't really think people start out a match thinking they are going to run out the timer. If you have single popo, they are going to try to gimp you, not run out the clock for 2 mins while you try to rack up damage. If that is what people are thinking when they play in tournaments, then I don't even want to go to them, thats just lame as hell.

 

[meepxzero]

lol >_> welcome to the world of competitive brawl watch some of lains matches ull see people do run the timer to win...

 

[momochuu]

Yeah but no one ever camps single popo because there's no threat of being chaingrabed. At least in my expierence, but I don't really think people start out a match thinking they are going to run out the timer. If you have single popo, they are going to try to gimp you, not run out the clock for 2 mins while you try to rack up damage. If that is what people are thinking when they play in tournaments, then I don't even want to go to them, thats just lame as hell.

Yeah, that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard going on at a tourney. But then again, everyone likes to play gay in Brawl. =/

Who was this Diddy btw? I think I might already know. :x

 

[Teh Future]

Sometimes I really hate this game and the community, but in the end it can be a lot of fun to play and most people are supa kewl. I wouldn't really not go to a tourney because someone does that.

 

[meepxzero]

Yeah, that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard going on at a tourney. But then again, everyone likes to play gay in Brawl. =/

Who was this Diddy btw? I think I might already know. :x

i think it was cornflakes or something? lolol i forgot. I had to beat him with marth cuz my icies were playing so horrible that day.

 

[l!nk_aut]

sopo can do a lot of damage. u need to play very creative but its worth it. omg i never thougt of killing myself. this is just so dumb lol

i recommend to practice with sopo/sona. this is definitely worth it.

 

[Dev2000]

Popo isnt the helpless baby everyone thinks and the other player mostly doesnt know that i have killed someone 2 times with popo alone in one match its just all about attacking when theyre fully open and have landing lag or something and people always let theyre gaurd down cause they think Sopo is useless so if you start playing defensivly then you will win easily

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

IC mains have been thinking about this kind of stuff since Melee.

I personally don't think it's worth it.

 

[Kage Me]

Perhaps in certain situations.

You and your opponent are both left at 2 stocks. He kills Nana, and your Popo has a way higher percent than his character. The time just hit 1:30 or so. At this point, you might wanna kill Popo so that you can take off his stock with a chaingrab, rather than trying to rack up damage with a single Climber and probably end up killed as well, but much later.

 

[:mad:]

You'd be better off just spamming blizzard, or fsmashing randomly. Just rack up some damage for at least maybe 30 seconds before killing yourself. Better yet, let them kill you.

 

[meepxzero]

lol i was expecting all the negative rep on this XD. I guess it really depends on who you play. I always have my eye on the timer now when i play this silly game. Good luck to you people who rather fight with solo popo if you play gaws that just bair all day. Bair doesnt kill you until possibly +200%.

 

[ignore the fire]

I've finished tourney sets with just Sopo.
From my experience, people usually let their guard down A LOT when playing Sopo. I'm convinced that I play smarter and more effectively with just Popo.
I've never had anyone try to run the timer on me, though. I think it's because they just want to finish off Sopo, which can be harder than it seems.

 

[Bnzaaa]

Sometimes I think about this too. I guess it depends on who you face. I've had people let their guard down against my SoPo and they got wrecked. Others get frustrated for not being able to finish me off early or find that they're playstyle when fighting 2 Climbers is just as effective when fighting one so they keep my SoPo alive as long as possible to avoid the infinite. My matches run close to the timer in a lot of my matches because people love to camp me.

Maybe it's just a East Coast thing .

 

[lain]

Only in the situation Kage Me described would I kill myself. My single popo wrecks people.

 

[Ambrose]

You shouldn't really have to suicide with solo popo. If the opponent is mk and hes really experienced at running away/stalling popo then just play really aggressive on him and try to get a few hits on him at least and he'll be forced to kill you eventually.

 

[KRDsonic]

I personally would never suicide when I have one Ice Climber. I actually play better against some characters (like Snake and MK) with one Ice Climber, since Nana dies so quickly against them.

Solo Climber can actually be used well if your opponent underestimates them too. I took off a whole stock from RoyR at HOBO 14 with just one Ice Climber on our 2nd match, mostly because I played in the same way that I do with two Ice Climbers and ignored the fact that I was at a disadvantage (though constantly getting grabbed every time I would land on the stage to recover got annoying xD)

 

[Nintendogs]

Lets put it this way:

If it is a time match, you're solo popo, you have more than 250% percent damage, there is 30 seconds left on the clock, you can easily CG an opponent quickly 0-death, you really suck at playing solo popo, and you are losing by one stock, this would be a viable tactic.

 

[Dev2000]

Lets put it this way:

If it is a time match, you're solo popo, you have more than 250% percent damage, there is 30 seconds left on the clock, you can easily CG an opponent quickly 0-death, you really suck at playing solo popo, and you are losing by one stock, this would be a viable tactic.

That must be the only way but i do have one question tho

when does a solo ice climber EVAR end up with 250%+ damage i mean that is just impossible outside of training mode

 

[meepxzero]

lol.... as long as people realize you dont have to fight with your sweat and tears with solo popo and just suicide and cg them to death next stock then my point was proven.

 

[Dev2000]

That is in fact true

 

[Nintendogs]

That must be the only way but i do have one question tho

when does a solo ice climber EVAR end up with 250%+ damage i mean that is just impossible outside of training mode

Thats my point

 

[C~Dog]

Lets put it this way:

If it is a time match, you're solo popo, you have more than 250% percent damage, there is 30 seconds left on the clock, you can easily CG an opponent quickly 0-death, you really suck at playing solo popo, and you are losing by one stock, this would be a viable tactic.

If you are losing by one stock, then when you kill yourself, you have to kill them twice in 30 secs, and that's just to stay even. To actually win, you need to kill them 3 times in 30 secs. No dice.

 

[The Yeti]

Ha... if only nana could **** while you suicided yourself. That'd be a legit tactic.

 

[Firestormzero0]

umm... in a serious match, you would never want to kill yourself. Even when ur solo popo. Every hit you land on him matters. Even if its a single ice block. I get plenty of kills with just solo popo. Never underestimate solo popo. Everybody else does and u can use that to ur advantage.. :D

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

SoPo, though it does kind of impairs you because you have half your power without Nana, is actually decent for punisher Ice Climbers. With you now being Solo, you can now use your tactics more liberally such as shielding and spotdodging (no longer you have to worry Nana getting hit, she is out of the picture). If you use Jab to start combos, nair to break being comboed, and Downsmash to punish people who approach you recklessly when you were spotdodging or shielding (Downsmash, if they are behind you after doing an aerial approach or rolling behind you, will wreck them because the first hit carries them to the second hit, which makes a total of around 20%, more than whan fsmash does while covering both sides with this insane hitbox.). The only problem people have when Sopoing is that they are too wreckless at getting hit. Since you are usually going to be at high percentages when in this state, it is optimum that you don't do laggy moves like fsmash and upsmash and other moves with relatively small hitboxes and punishable lag. People have to learn not to SH their blizzards anymore and learn to not use blizzard as an attack but only as a rushing attack approach stopper (if you attack with blizzard, SH or not, while the opponent can shield and roll behind, you put yourself into a vulnerable state). If you use it while they are trying to attack you, you are most likely going to stop them and not get punished since they are being occupied by your attack. Also, avoid using it in the air because it is laggy and easy to get behind and punish. It is better if they are rushing at you in the air than on the ground when doing blizzard because blizzard's solo strength doesn't shield poke as much as doubled and since the opponent can't shield in the air, it is better as an anti aerial defense. Use shielding or spotdodging to d-tilt if they approach on the ground or land in front of you after attempting to attack your shield because it comes out fast and ends quickly while doing a semi-spike when connecting making this an optimum move for punish. Use F-tilt as your more preferable "kill move" but only use the side or up smash as a kill move when they are at an appropriate percent to actually kill. Some players tend to smash early in percents when it wouldn't kill the opponent, only causing damage. F-tilt will work better for that kind of move in this situation since it has better range, comes out as fast, and does only slightly less knockback, but has less ending lag. Also when solo, it's more safe to stay on the ground even if there are comboing opprotunities higher in the air because you are more likely to hit them on the ground then in the air where they can aerial dodge and punish from below (the Ice Climber's psuedo blindspot, since dair does nothing to a shield). Learn to fight backwards most of the time so that you can pull of a downsmash or bair frequently since they are excellent moves and learn to walk instead of running so that you will be able to smash or pivot at any time since running doesn't go much faster and usually wouldn't be used unless you are running away since you are at the defensive.

Sorry that this is a bit lengthy, it's just that many people who end up SoPoing rely on smashes and laggy blizzards as damage and end up getting punished that way.

So yeah, in conclusion, DON'T SUICIDE. It MAY be bad for your health...

 

[FrozenHobo]

if you are off the side, nana is gone, you have no hope of recovering back onto the stage and you need to get back in quickly, then yes, it IS A GOOD IDEA. any other situation you had better learn how to sopo like a mofo.

 

[Bnzaaa]

I have an example. I fought a campy ROB before, and he was up by about 70 when he finished off Nana. He got me to 180 before he decided he didn't want to kill me in risk of being infinited. So he kept Down-Throwing me, because Down-Throw doesn't kill at those percents. He could have very easily Up-Thrown me and finished my stock, but in fear of the infinite, he decided not to.

Or if your fighting Pit on Halberd on the floating platform and Nana is gone. He has you at kill percents, but instead of going for a finished, he flies under the stage and continues to shark you and shoot arrows.

Both of these senarios have happened to me before in tournament, with both costing me the match because I tried to fight through it with SoPo. My stock lasted about 4 minutes in the first one, while my second one lasted that entire transformation.

The problem is that it technically isn't stalling because your opponent is still attacking you.

 

[ignore the fire]

I have an example. I fought a campy ROB before, and he was up by about 70 when he finished off Nana. He got me to 180 before he decided he didn't want to kill me in risk of being infinited. So he kept Down-Throwing me, because Down-Throw doesn't kill at those percents. He could have very easily Up-Thrown me and finished my stock, but in fear of the infinite, he decided not to.

Or if your fighting Pit on Halberd on the floating platform and Nana is gone. He has you at kill percents, but instead of going for a finished, he flies under the stage and continues to shark you and shoot arrows.

Both of these senarios have happened to me before in tournament, with both costing me the match because I tried to fight through it with SoPo. My stock lasted about 4 minutes in the first one, while my second one lasted that entire transformation.

The problem is that it technically isn't stalling because your opponent is still attacking you.

WOW. I know people think CGs are lame, but this is sooooo dumb.

 

[meepxzero]

thats the shady truth of brawl lol people will do anything to win. I use to feel bad cging people now i have no more remorse.

 

[Veng]

Why would killing yourself help?

Popo alone racking up lets say 60% extra damage is such a nice lead.

 

[meepxzero]

Why would killing yourself help?

Popo alone racking up lets say 60% extra damage is such a nice lead.

people that take advantage over the percent lead if the game times out. Say your both at 2 stocks and he has 90% and your alone with over a 100% and it is under a minute left on the clock. It is advantageous for them to camp you and do weak hitting moves to stall the game making them win, but if you suicide and land a cg you have a slightly better chance at coming back.

I really dont think people understand under tourney settings people will camp you harder than as opposed to friendlies >_>.

 

[Kage Me]

Why would killing yourself help?

Popo alone racking up lets say 60% extra damage is such a nice lead.

...You know that your opponent can rack 60% on you just as well as you can on him, right?

In fact, he may have an easier time. Ice Cllimbers just have a much higher damage output when both Climbers are there, especially with Blizzard and Squall. When it's down to one, it's not-so-amazing.

 

[FrozenHobo]

...You know that your opponent can rack 60% on you just as well as you can on him, right?

In fact, he may have an easier time. Ice Cllimbers just have a much higher damage output when both Climbers are there, especially with Blizzard and Squall. When it's down to one, it's not-so-amazing.

well you're playing with the assumption that you're gonna die soon anyway. what's another 60% on you when you're already over 100%?

 

[Firestormzero0]

Actually guys, Last tourny i went to I went against a metaknight... he ended up killing my nana and so i just had popo left... well my first instinct was to just get as much damage as i can on him before he kills me... but he did something unexpected... he decided to try and run the time out.. so he just ran away from my single popo for like 3 minutes... i then realized what he was trying to do... there was only 2 minutes left of the match so i had to do something... so i ended up killing myself so i could get nana back cuz it would be the only way to win...

So depending on the scenerio... Sometimes it is a good idea to kill yourself...

 

[Tarmogoyf]

thats the shady truth of brawl lol people will do anything to win. I use to feel bad cging people now i have no more remorse.

QFT. It's just as gay sitting on the ledge for 7 mins as it is 0-Deathing people, except that it's nowhere near as long drawn out with the CG.

Basically, the point of this thread is "watch the clock". SD if they are being so campy that they won't kill SoPo when you rush them, or if time is about to run out.