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Kirby for High/Top tier?

Eggmann

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Feb 28, 2008
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7
Well I had this argument with some of my friends that kept telling me that Kirby is nub and that even though he got buffed in Brawl he should still be considered Mid tier.

Is this true? I saw a lot of videos of him being played by good people and he seemed very strong compared to Melee. Any opinions from people who have played the japanese version of brawl a lot?
 

Lord Viper

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Kirby is better in Brawl then he was in Melee, but it's way too soon to talk about tiers. There's yet to say what tricks we don't know yet, or haven't used.
 

Eggmann

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
I swear to god...
Could you please say something relevant to the thread instead of talking about your problems with God and how you like to curse at him.

I know the American version of Brawl isn't out yet but I do know a lot of people already have the Japanese version of it and might already have a pretty good opinion of how each character fares.
 

Dry Bones

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while its too late to be talking about tiers, Kirby looks more than a viable choice now in an extremely well balanced game, and thats the important thing
 

tennisthehilife

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Tennis Courts Westminster, California
Well yeah I feel its too early to say anything. No one is really "pro" at Brawl yet and there is the undiscovered stuff.

I mean Melee I used Kirby b/c N64 was about top tier, he was ok but 2-3 years, um and you know the rest of the story...



Actually I don't want him to be high tier, I wouldn't want him to be popular/over picked IMO. Part of Kirby's charm.
 

BentoBox

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Could you please say something relevant to the thread instead of talking about your problems with God and how you like to curse at him.

I know the American version of Brawl isn't out yet but I do know a lot of people already have the Japanese version of it and might already have a pretty good opinion of how each character fares.
Could you please stop being ignorant and realise that Tiers are about matchups, placements and the fact that some chars may have gotten buffed compared to their melee counterpart is an irrelevant point considering that this is a whole new metagame that is beign developed? Every single day there's a random guy asking about character's placements in the tier list and 99.9% of the time they don't even know what they represent. Leave that to the back room. And stop caring about something you barely understand, seriously.
 

Eggmann

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Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
Could you please stop being ignorant and realise that Tiers are about matchups, placements and the fact that some chars may have gotten buffed compared to their melee counterpart is an irrelevant point considering that this is a whole new metagame that is beign developed? Every single day there's a random guy asking about character's placements in the tier list and 99.9% of the time they don't even know what they represent. Leave that to the back room. And stop caring about something you barely understand, seriously.
The Japanese version of the game is already out and there are already tons of videos of people doing professional matchups on youtube. From what I do understand, there should still be some people who already have an opinion on tiers for brawl. So unless you're one of them, don't post ****** because I'm not interested in what you have to say.
 

BentoBox

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Having experience in certain matchups is not enough to give anything near accurate results. You can't talk about Kirby's placement on the tier list without talking about the 34 other characters and discussing how they themselves deal with the rest of the cast and why they'd deserve a spot below or above kirby in the tier list. SSBM's first tier list came out 1 year after the game was out and you expect a tier list to build up a month after the game was out in -japan-?

Leave that to the back room. And stop caring about something you barely understand, seriously.
If you do care that much tho, most agree that Marth, Olimar, GW, Toony and Pit have decent chances at making it to top tier.
 

Eggmann

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
I asked for an opinion. Do you know what that word means? I'm not asking for a completely accurate and definite answer here.

If you do care that much tho, most agree that Marth, Olimar, GW, Toony and Pit have decent chances at making it to top tier.
See? Even you can give your opinion on it based on other people. It's that simple.
 

BentoBox

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Notice how everyone else in this thread started off by stating that its too early for anything. This type if discussion is hence pointless. That simple.
 

Eggmann

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Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
Stop posting in my thread. If someone has anything interesting to say they will but you're just posting the same useless crap over and over. Freakin dumb kid.
 

BentoBox

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Lol. You don't realise that anyone could spit random bs, because its too early and you'd still be satisfied.

Hi I think kirby will be low tier!
 

Eggmann

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Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
Why is it TOO EARLY if people have already been posting videos on youtubes and some are doing character exposures. Some people have their Wii moded and have been playing the Japanese version for a couple of weeks now.

Just stop posting. You're annoying. I saw you're from Montreal. I feel ashamed to be stuck in the same city as a moron like yourself.
 

BentoBox

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Why is it TOO EARLY if people have already been posting videos on youtubes and some are doing character exposures. Some people have their Wii moded and have been playing the Japanese version for a couple of weeks now.
And that is why I said you don't understand what tiers are about.

Character exposures display each character's movesets, nothing else. The people posting videos on youtube do so because some people are indeed curious about how characters play, as characters are in most cases attached to a certain type of playstyle in order to develop's one fullest potential. But there again, that is not enough to conclude anything. People just started analyzing specific matchups. Hylian believes that Marth will have a hard time fighting a good Samus, but that doesn't mean that Samus is top tier, because the rest of his matchups haven't been analyzed thoroughly.

Semi Copy+paste from another post of mine because this comes up way too often:

The game has been out for a month.

Any tier discussion at this point is premature and unfounded in most cases. Tier lists didn't come to be made by listing characters' specific traits and mindless speculation about how pwnage they are (''look at this guy handle kirby like a pro, def undderrated! high tier fosho!''). Fact: it doesn't matter if you've played the game because your opinion cannot be taken as law until actual large scale tournaments are organized in which every character should be well represented and thus allow us to analyze every matchup. Who are Kirby's worst match-ups? Who easily gimps his recovery? Who does he have the easiest time beating? Counters? Does he have an advantage in specific types of stages?

How well does he fare against:

Bowser:
Captain Falcon:
Diddy Kong:
Donkey Kong:
Falco:
Fox:
Game & Watch:
Ganondorf :
Ice Climbers:
Ike :
Jigglypuff :
King Dedede:
Link :
Lucario :
Lucas :
Luigi :
Mario:
Marth:
Meta Knight:
Ness:
Peach:
Pikachu:
Pikmin & Olimar:
Pit :
Pokémon Trainer:
R.O.B. :
Samus:
Sheik :
Snake :
Sonic :
Toon Link :
Wario :
Wolf :
Yoshi :
Zelda :
Zero Suit Samus:
?
And who in this list deserves a lower placement in the tier list? And why? And where is the line drawn between every tier?

Fact: You cannot simply state that <insert random char here> won't be bottom tier because he seems good or because you've had unsimilar experiences. Remember how Roy used to be top tier? Aside from Yoshi (lol), there aren't many characters that are ****ty per-say, thus why there are people speculating about every single character's standing in the high tier bracket. Every character seems playable, that we know, but even if people have the game and do post matches on youtube, these people do not have more authority than anyone else about character placings until they actually evaluate and analyze the bigger picture. Many people say that the cast in general is more balanced which would imply that even if Kirby ended up being at the very bottom, he could still prove to be a viable character in tournaments, he'd simply be a lot more limited than the rest of the cast.

And now, taking all of this into account, do you realise how ridiculous it is for you to come here and ask where kirby stands in the tier list?

AND THIS IS WHY IT IS TOO EARLY TO CONCLUDE ANYTHING. There's a reason why the only place in these boards where such a discussion would have some shed of credibility is in the Back room, because they've understood all of this. Why do you think it took a year to come up with SSBM's tier list? Stop trying to rush a lenghty process, because that does nothing but display your ignorance.
 

Bronze

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I think its pretty obvious from checking each character discussion page that everyone is going to be high tier xD
 

Eggmann

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 28, 2008
Messages
7
And that is why I said you don't understand what tiers are about.

Character exposures display each character's movesets, nothing else. The people posting videos on youtube do so because some people are indeed curious about how characters play, as characters are in most cases attached to a certain type of playstyle in order to develop's one fullest potential. But there again, that is not enough to conclude anything. People just started analyzing specific matchups. Hylian believes that Marth will have a hard time fighting a good Samus, but that doesn't mean that Samus is top tier, because the rest of his matchups haven't been analyzed thoroughly.

Semi Copy+paste from another post of mine because this comes up way too often:

The game has been out for a month.

Any tier discussion at this point is premature and unfounded in most cases. Tier lists didn't come to be made by listing characters' specific traits and mindless speculation about how pwnage they are (''look at this guy handle kirby like a pro, def undderrated! high tier fosho!''). Fact: it doesn't matter if you've played the game because your opinion cannot be taken as law until actual large scale tournaments are organized in which every character should be well represented and thus allow us to analyze every matchup. Who are Kirby's worst match-ups? Who easily gimps his recovery? Who does he have the easiest time beating? Counters? Does he have an advantage in specific types of stages?

How well does he fare against:

Bowser:
Captain Falcon:
Diddy Kong:
Donkey Kong:
Falco:
Fox:
Game & Watch:
Ganondorf :
Ice Climbers:
Ike :
Jigglypuff :
King Dedede:
Link :
Lucario :
Lucas :
Luigi :
Mario:
Marth:
Meta Knight:
Ness:
Peach:
Pikachu:
Pikmin & Olimar:
Pit :
Pokémon Trainer:
R.O.B. :
Samus:
Sheik :
Snake :
Sonic :
Toon Link :
Wario :
Wolf :
Yoshi :
Zelda :
Zero Suit Samus:
?
And who in this list deserves a lower placement in the tier list? And why? And where is the line drawn between every tier?

Fact: You cannot simply state that <insert random char here> won't be bottom tier because he seems good or because you've had unsimilar experiences. Remember how Roy used to be top tier? Aside from Yoshi (lol), there aren't many characters that are ****ty per-say, thus why there are people speculating about every single character's standing in the high tier bracket. Every character seems playable, that we know, but even if people have the game and do post matches on youtube, these people do not have more authority than anyone else about character placings until they actually evaluate and analyze the bigger picture. Many people say that the cast in general is more balanced which would imply that even if Kirby ended up being at the very bottom, he could still prove to be a viable character in tournaments, he'd simply be a lot more limited than the rest of the cast.

And now, taking all of this into account, do you realise how ridiculous it is for you to come here and ask where kirby stands in the tier list?

AND THIS IS WHY IT IS TOO EARLY TO CONCLUDE ANYTHING. There's a reason why the only place in these boards where such a discussion would have some shed of credibility is in the Back room, because they've understood all of this. Why do you think it took a year to come up with SSBM's tier list? Stop trying to rush a lenghty process, because that does nothing but display your ignorance.
Did you seriously get into McGill university without knowing what the word opinion means?

Fact: it doesn't matter if you've played the game because your opinion cannot be taken as law
I've said it before in this thread but you seem too dumb to understand. I want opinions. Fine go ahead and say Kirby is low tier, I'll judge myself by seeing what kind of proof you have for saying that.

Once again let me put it in clear simple terms so that an idiot like yourself can understand:

I want opinions on if kirby could be viable for high or top tier. I am not asking for any definite answer here.

Is that simple enough for you?
 

BentoBox

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
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Montreal
I don't care about the opinions you're looking for because quite frankly, most of the people who even bother to reply seriously in these types of thread do not understand any of this. And that's what I tried to get through your head. But you're stubborn :(. I tried. Keep taking opinions from people who do not know what they're talking about /no1 Why would I want to consider unfounded opinions though? Critical thinking is what they teach us at McGill ;). Some people do enjoy being tools though.

I'll judge myself by seeing what kind of proof you have for saying that.
Funny how you're now looking for proof?

I think its pretty obvious from checking each character discussion page that everyone is going to be high tier xD
QFT lol. ^That is exactly what I'm talking about.
 

Kirby 89

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Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Exeter, PA
so this is my first post, and i do not wish to make any enemies, but i feel that when creating a tier lis a lot of elements need to be examined and they need to be examined quite thouroghtly. it is with this belief in mind that im going to side with BentoBox when he says it is too early to know any real and definitive information concerning tiers. i would also like to add however that kirby has not been ruled out as a top tier character; neither has anyone else. opinion-wise i would like to see kirby as a top-tiered character, but i think he will be dwarfed by other characters within the game.
-Kirby 89
 

Steerclear

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Fayetteville, NC
None of you have lives, I'd just like to say. =)

Just kidding. I'd like to see Kirby do some ***-whomping in this one because he IS HAL Lab's brainchild. I never was a huge fan of him in SSB64 or SSBM, but I still respect him as a character because I used to love his games. =)
 

Archenyte

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
229
I don't really like tier threads but I guess I'll talk. (There are wayy too many tier threads)

Um, tiers will still be here and stuff but less important because the game is generally more balanced. Tiers are something that will be created as soon as the game comes out for a few hours. Some characters will seem better than others overall. We base the tiers on this. However, the tier lists continually evolve when more techniques and strategies come out.
 

Plasmaexe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
144
Location
Virginia
Like a lot of people are saying, it's still rather early to make a tier list, a GOOD ONE. Someone could make a tier list, but it probably wouldn't be good ~_~. The game isn't even out yet in America. Although Kirby is actually good now which I'm really glad for (I got to play 30 minutes at a convention), it doesn't automatically make him top tier, a lot of people have gotten better (especially Marth). Really though, just wait until you have the game and play it and have fun ~_~, I'd rather have fun figuring out whose good and who sucks than basing my thoughts on other people who come up with tier lists the day or a few days after I buy the game. Not to mention this game is wayy more balanced than Melee so a tier list is going to take awhile ~_~.
 

Lucas9

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Feb 10, 2008
Messages
6
Location
Georgia
I don't know if Kirby will be a top tier or not, He's been my main through all the games. So for Brawl he will def be my main. Him and Lucas/Ness of course
 

rm88

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I think its pretty obvious from checking each character discussion page that everyone is going to be high tier xD
You need to go to the Peach sub-board. By that logic, she's the new Mewtwo ^^

Back on topic, I agree it's too early to make a Tier List... and even when we get the first one, it's almost bound to change over the years like it did in Melee. I'm glad Kirby (my 2nd main) got buffed, but being Top Tier is not that easy when Marth and Fox are practically the same.
 

Delta Z

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Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
345
...and the fact that some chars may have gotten buffed compared to their melee counterpart is an irrelevant point considering that this is a whole new metagame that is beign developed?
True, but that doesn't mean we can't speculate a little...

Um, tiers will still be here and stuff but less important because the game is generally more balanced.
Agreed. The difference between Top and Bottom Tier will be a lot less than in Melee.

...when Marth and Fox are practically the same.
Wrong-o. Both of them got nerfed in general, although it might not seem like it at first. Both are lighter now; Fox weighs just as much as Kirby does. Besides, with Kirby's buffs, it looks like he could counter Fox now. Or maybe I'm just pushing my idea a little too much. :rolleyes:

Anyway, looks like Kirby could be upper-Mid or High Tier. He looks a lot better now.
 

YinYang.ERROR

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Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
356
Location
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Well I had this argument with some of my friends that kept telling me that Kirby is nub and that even though he got buffed in Brawl he should still be considered Mid tier.
Kirby is buffed but he seems to be more around mid tier, not high (if you are talking about skill). however there is NO REAL TIER lists right now and there will not be for some time. Competitive players make up tiers based on statistics of which characters win the most matches in tournaments. However for some reason, people seem to think it is based on what character is the best.

The amount of people who play the character and the advanced techniques of each characters DO NOT directly effect the tier list. Instead they indirectly effect it by giving the players in the tournament the edge. As more of these advanced techniques and meta-games are created it reinforces the tier lists and slows the dramatic changes they go through early on.

The Back Roomers currently produce what some feel is the official tier list. But when looked at realistically tier lists are nothing more than tournament statistics with a chocolate coating.

Is this true? I saw a lot of videos of him being played by good people and he seemed very strong compared to Melee. Any opinions from people who have played the japanese version of brawl a lot?
Any character can look very strong when played by "good people" . Hell I have even saw some people who made yoshi look like a king, but that does not mean he is. If you are looking for a character to play I would say do the following:

1. Get over the fact that you need a High Tier Character to be considered Good or Pro.
Because you don't, go look up T0mmy's Pichu he could own you.

2. Pick a Character that you feel comfortable with, or that you think is cool. Do not let others pick your character based on what some list says, if everyone was suppose to play as the same 4 characters we would not have the giant array that we have now.

3. Practice, I can't stress this enough I see people pick a character who they have potential with just give up and quit because they lost a game. Your never going to reach the pro level if you quit all the time.

4. Play as many people as you can. People play differently, and almost no one plays like a stupid CPU.

5. Try something new, even if it sounds or looks stupid. If people did not do this we would not have advanced techniques such as wavedashing (which by the way is removed from brawl)

anyways I hope I got my point across. Have a nice day.

... one more thing, don't pick Kirby if you can not do at least the first 3 things that I listed.
 

Plasmaexe

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
144
Location
Virginia
True, but that doesn't mean we can't speculate a little...


Agreed. The difference between Top and Bottom Tier will be a lot less than in Melee.


Wrong-o. Both of them got nerfed in general, although it might not seem like it at first. Both are lighter now; Fox weighs just as much as Kirby does. Besides, with Kirby's buffs, it looks like he could counter Fox now. Or maybe I'm just pushing my idea a little too much. :rolleyes:

Anyway, looks like Kirby could be upper-Mid or High Tier. He looks a lot better now.
Is his forward Smash really that nerfed ~_~? I did hear he can't combo as well with his throws (they were pretty cheap ~_~), but I've seen his Smash easily kill Kirby at 50%. I kinda wanna see this myself though before taking other people's opinions and see if it really means that much ~_~. Though his Final Smash is extremely cheap, it moves extremely fast, does 60% damage on a hit (more than most smashes), and instantly kills ~_~.

Basically though, I play Kirby cause he's my favorite character of all time, I freakin had an obsession over a pink puffball in elementary school T_T. I still used him in Melee even if he's not that good and kirbycide those tournment players that keep on doing those dash dancing things and such (I just learned a few weeks ago what it's like to be facing people that are way above your league, it's normally in my favor ~_~). I don't choose characters based on tiers even though high tier characters are fun to use.
 

Ornj

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give it a few years

compared to his melee counter-part he is better, but compared to the other brawl chars... not so much
 

Astrax

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Feb 29, 2008
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8
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Mty
I have been playing with kirby and i must say that HE OWNS. Will probably main him.
 

Cebo

Smash Rookie
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Messages
13
Well I had this argument with some of my friends that kept telling me that Kirby is nub and that even though he got buffed in Brawl he should still be considered Mid tier.

Is this true? I saw a lot of videos of him being played by good people and he seemed very strong compared to Melee. Any opinions from people who have played the japanese version of brawl a lot?

Character choice shouldn't be determined by tier . You should just play with who you like. Don't let tiers or other people's opinions sway your judgement. I really don't care what Kirby's placement on tier list will be, I still plan on maining him. If your so concerned about tiers, just main Fox or Marth.
 

Kirby Redux

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Aug 28, 2007
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Kirby should be mid-tier, only because i feel he has the best potential being a surprise character that can pwn when used correctly, but is takes skill to use. (Somewhat like he was in Melee). Kirby is the character that I picked because when i first tried SSB64, he was the first character that I used ever. From then on, I tried other characters, but i didnt any were as comfortable as Kirby. Unfortunately, I stopped playing for about two years, and once Melee was out, i was horrible. I didnt buy Melee until December of last year, so I'm just getting back in the groove of things. The point of this horribly long and drawn out story is that if you feel that Kirby fits with you, choose him, if not, experiment with other characters until you find the one that suits you. That's what makes Smash such an amazing game, you have a ton of characters that fit different playstyles, and can help make a fun gaming experience no matter who you are. (Sorry i ramble a lot :D).

-KR
 

CervPurp63

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Messages
126
Location
Tallahassee, FL
I hope Kirby isn't high or top tier. He's my main right now and I don't want him to end up being over played. Cuz the red Kirby is the best color and I don't want my favorite character in Brawl to get abused by tier happy players.
 
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