Knee's timing is silly

[TheManaLord]

Coping with the timing of the knee. How is everyone doing it? I still find myself spamming them too often... with no result besides the weak hit. I have found no reliable way to really approach with it on the ground, the only way I've been able to use it effectively is to fall down on the opponent from high above, or when they're in a tumble or recovery animation to do it then. But seriously, it's rough in this game. Ledgehop doesn't seem to work because of the frame timing for a sweetspot. It's just hard since you can't really combo into it. I have seen and done very sporadic uair to knee combo's on certain characters around 70% but it's very inconsistent.

Is there any consistent method anyone has found?

 

[Reaver197]

There is no known method of consistently leading into the knee, and judging by the game's intrinsic design and how the knee works in Brawl, I doubt there ever will be.

It is rather silly how they made it work in Brawl. It's so much more sensible and no-nonsense in Melee, my dear chap.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I spent ages trying to get a knee off on a giant Lucario in classic mode and pausing it whenever I thought it'd connect with the sweet spot. Instead, most of the frames were just of Falcon passing right through giant Lucario with a weak hit.

I got some interesting snapshots that way, it kind of looked like Captain Falcon was climbing out of Lucario's butt while he screamed in pain.

After that, I kind of just gave up on the knee.

 

[TheManaLord]

Haha, that's absurd. Yeah I wish action replays worked more accessibly and more universally on Wii's... then frame date could be gathered and more concrete solutions could be found. Right now I just don't know about the knee, it isn't practical, but without it where is falcons forward aerial onslaught? Nair just isn't as good as it used to be either... if uair hit a little lower it could replace those but it doesn't, it can't help you when people are below you.

I will work tirelessly to find the solution, for the good of mankind.

 

[Reaver197]

Nah. It's Brawl, don't sweat it too much.

I was going to say how awesome it was that you were in New York, but you're way upstate New York, which is essentially a different state. Do you ever come down to the metropolis by chance?

 

[TheManaLord]

Haha, nah, nah. We upstaters have a whole different scene. If for some reason I ever am down near NYC/LI or rockland county or somewhere around NYC basically I'm gonna be hitting up every smasher in the area haha.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Haha, that's absurd. Yeah I wish action replays worked more accessibly and more universally on Wii's... then frame date could be gathered and more concrete solutions could be found. Right now I just don't know about the knee, it isn't practical, but without it where is falcons forward aerial onslaught? Nair just isn't as good as it used to be either... if uair hit a little lower it could replace those but it doesn't, it can't help you when people are below you.

I will work tirelessly to find the solution, for the good of mankind.

looks like we'll just have to use Nair more.

Even though the bad priority on that move prevents me from EVER landing it solidly.

 

[Brilliance]

Sounds dumb, but I RaR into the Knee, aiming for the back of their shield, avoids getting shield grabbed heh.

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

I can knee standing players quite well... that's about it, and that's all i need it for now (countering)

Aim lower I guess... that's what I had to do to fix it for me.

I can never get an air born player. I always go for dair, uair, or bair against the airborn, although right now, im working on a stubbed knee => footstool combo.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The Knee sucks. Don't bother using it unless your opponent is in free fall or something dumb like that.

 

[Winnar]

I've given up for the most part and started coming up with uses for the fail knee. It has more priority than Wolf's side B, did you know that? Whether that's useful or not... >_>

But the regular knee isn't too bad, if you double jump pretty low off the ground then you can fast fall into a knee. Chances are you're gonna get shield grabbed though. And that's terrible.

It takes super mindgames (or luck) to pull off a knee this time, but it is oh so sweet when it works.

 

[goodoldganon]

I've found it useful only when you can predict what your opponent is going to do when they are recovering from the ledge. (i.e. roll, attack, or jump up it)

 

[Runeblade279]

I've found it useful only when you can predict what your opponent is going to do when they are recovering from the ledge. (i.e. roll, attack, or jump up it)

That, or bait them into it when they're recovering. I use -all- my aerials in my recovery chase when I'm falcon. The knee is the one that works the least, but sometimes it does and it's glorious.

I also often hit my opponent when they least expect it, like I'll ahve killed them last two stocks around 120-ish, then third stock knee them at 60% for the kill. (un-stale, it WILL kill)

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

I'm really not having too much trouble with the knee right now. I get the sweetspot like around 70% of the time. That I'm playing unexperienced casual players might have something to do with that though.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

Whenever i hit with a flubbed knee i just proceed into a Uair. I say the best time to use the knee would probably be when the opponent is trying to recovery. I've done that lots of times and i have landed the sweetspot 8/10 times.

 

[Zenonfury]

The knee is pretty hard to land..i would stick to uairs and nairs

 

[JonaDiaper]

down throw at low percents -> knee when they jump out of the down throw(cuz they usually do) all you gotta do is know how high theyre gonna be. ive done it a few times. and ledgehoped knees always work if they are right at the edge.

 

[KeyKid19]

Sounds dumb, but I RaR into the Knee, aiming for the back of their shield, avoids getting shield grabbed heh.

I do that as well.

And Jona is right about the ledgehop thing too. I've done it but it's not the safest idea and they have to be in the perfect spot.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That f-air got nerfed big time it seems. That surely hinders Falcon's choices of finishing moves.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

I wouldn't say that, the timing is just stricter. Same thing happened to Zelda's Lightning Feet. Just like with everything else Falcon does in both games, gotta work DAT MINDGAME if you want to succeed with the good Captain.

 

[Runeblade279]

That f-air got nerfed big time it seems. That surely hinders Falcon's choices of finishing moves.

Actually, the knee in melee was a bread and butter move, now it's a very precise kill move, once you get it down, it's great for a kill move. Nerfed in timing, not in power.

And I -LOVE- ledgehop knee, I recently learned how to do it and it's great, one of the best ways to get a knee off.

 

[KeyKid19]

Actually, the knee in melee was a bread and butter move, now it's a very precise kill move, once you get it down, it's great for a kill move. Nerfed in timing, not in power.

And I -LOVE- ledgehop knee, I recently learned how to do it and it's great, one of the best ways to get a knee off.

Nerfed in hitstun though which eliminates the great SH-Knee -> Chase sprees that Melee had. By the time you chase them they're already ready to airdodge or aerial you. Besides the fact that SH-Knee doesn't really work anymore anyways... lol

Oh and if you love ledgehop Knee now, go back to Melee and do it. 100x cooler and more useful. It still is a nice "gotcha!" tactic though.

 

[Ulevo]

All it takes is practice, really. I have it down quite well. I had just as much trouble getting Zelda's Lightning Kicks, but I have those down too.

If you want good ways to KO with a Knee, here are some options:

- DThrow > Knee or Nair > Knee

- Dash Attack > Knee or Nair > Knee

- DTilt > Knee or Nair > Knee

- Ledgehop > Knee

Those are some "combos" that work well provided you time them properly, rush your opponent, or outwit them. Everything else is simply practice. I find that it's best to get as close as possible to the opponent before using it. Unfortunately Falcon doesn't carry his running momentum when he leaps to carry the Knee a far distance anymore.

 

[Reaver197]

Hardly any of those options actually have much viability of you landing a knee on a wary, intelligent opponent, especially those Nairs -> knee.

Ledgehop knee might work against an opponent that is too close to the ledge and is not prepared for it, but it will not kill unless they are at a pretty high damage, maybe 100% or more. But, if you play against seasoned opponents, they'll quickly learn to watch out for that.

 

[TheManaLord]

All it takes is practice, really. I have it down quite well. I had just as much trouble getting Zelda's Lightning Kicks, but I have those down too.

If you want good ways to KO with a Knee, here are some options:

- DThrow > Knee or Nair > Knee

- Dash Attack > Knee or Nair > Knee

- DTilt > Knee or Nair > Knee

- Ledgehop > Knee

Those are some "combos" that work well provided you time them properly, rush your opponent, or outwit them. Everything else is simply practice. I find that it's best to get as close as possible to the opponent before using it. Unfortunately Falcon doesn't carry his running momentum when he leaps to carry the Knee a far distance anymore.

This isn't melee.

None of those combo's work, sadly.

 

[Menu Item]

from my kneeing, I've found it to be more like jiggly's rest and juigi's bup than anything else. consequently, I use it most in free for alls where nobody sees it coming.
maybe that's the secret, maybe not...I'll just have to look into it

 

[Reaver197]

Brawl was definitely designed with having more than 2 people, probably 4, at any given time.

 

[Dan_X]

The Knee is still one of Falcon's best attacks. I have NO problem landing this attack whatsoever because I was so into Jiggly Puff in melee. Wait, what does Jiggle have to do with anything? The sweetspot for the knee is the SAME as the sweet spot for Jiggly's Rest. Now, with that said, with Jiggly executing rest and missing it is a major downfall as there is such a delay. With Falcon however, the delay isn't bad. I've been able to combo into a knee very effectively, and never have trouble with it. Seriously, it's just different than before, takes more precision that's all. If you were good at Jiggly's rest, you'll be good at Falcon's Knee..

I'm serious. Practice..

 

[Mann]

I'm serious. Practice..

Even if you are serious about saying that practice will make it perfect, the fact doesn't change that it's harder to pull off on opponents.

 

[KMB23]

I know it is like just silly as a silly clown.

 

[Sterowent]

I know it is like just silly as a silly clown.

Well said, good sir...

Precisely what i was thinking myself. Ohoh, those silly clowns...

 

[Ilucamy]

The good thing is that if the knee doesn't sweetspot, you generally go along with them so that you can follow up with a nair or uair.

Oh and NESSBOUNDER, since when has your sig been so fast?

 

[Tenki]

Placement, Timing, and Your Opponent's %

I played on wifi over the weekend and KO'd a friend using Zelda at around 60-70% (freeze frame lag ftw lolol) with the Knee. Memory might fail me atm, but If it's not because of Zelda's pain animation, then the sweet spot might actually be a little bit OFF of the actual knee graphic. If that's true, it might only work if there's no overlap with the 'weak knee' hitbox.

Someone with a knee screenshot should like... draw a box showing the 'perfect placement' for the knee (Falcon, opponent), and where the hitboxes are (or seem to be). Bet it'll help loads of Falcon players.

Every week, it seems I've been picking a different character to try that most people say suck. I went from Lucario (invisible hitbox ftw) to Link (meh, ranging with projectiles isn't my style) to Ganondorf (people just have to learn to block and combo off of Flame Choke and he's a beaaast) to Sonic (is awesome off-stage <3). I'm feeling like this weekend will be my Falcon weekend, so I'm kinda gauging out his suggested weaknesses for now =D

If there's something I picked up from Sonic, pay attention to your opponent's % when you get a 'successful combo'. (making up these #'s) A setup like d-tilt to knee might work at 40-60% against a medium-weight character but fail against at 80-100% or 0-20%.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164331
like.. that, for example. Maybe, just maybe Ulevo's combos do work, but only at certain %s for middleweight characters, who knows? If you can figure it out against a middleweight like Marth, you can make adjustments to get them to work against any other character :]

good luck lol

 

[J0KER]

What would be a good way to get the knee set up is to dash attack and the opponent is going to be a bit above u so u can come from below with the knee always work for me

 

[rubiksfriend]

Falcon never deserved a nerf. He had crappy priority, terrible recovery, mediocre specials at best, and one kill move. I think Rick Wheeler has replaced the true Captain. Not even Brawl physics can slow the real Captain down!

 

[Andrew Ott]

It's not as useful an approach anymore because short hops take longer and the knee itself is faster, making you toss it out at the very end of a very, very long airtime. It's not as surprising. Mixing up empty short hops, sh bair and sh knee is probably a good way to use it, but it's definitely no longer an approach. Dair likes to be approached with now, nair into Raptor boost or another dair as follow up...

 

[IcantWin]

Well I find most use of it from comboing on an airborne opponent, works best when there isn't too much knock back from your aerials, which usually leads from something like Nair -> Uair,Uair -> Knee. Been practicing it a LONG time, and I connect with it at least 80 percent of the time in air.

 

[jdub03]

Just remember the sweet spot is at the exact moment you perform the move. So dont knee until your meshed with your opponent.

SMASH BROS DOJO "SMASH TRIVIA"

"Zelda’s back midair and forward midair attacks (Lightning Kicks) as well as Captain Falcon’s forward midair attack (Knee Smash) deliver devastating blows when they score a clean hit. Aim to connect right at the start of the attack."

 

[Tenki]

Well, the thing is, it's not just a timing but it's a placement sweetspot as well xD

 

[Speedsk8er]

The Knee is still one of Falcon's best attacks. I have NO problem landing this attack whatsoever because I was so into Jiggly Puff in melee. Wait, what does Jiggle have to do with anything? The sweetspot for the knee is the SAME as the sweet spot for Jiggly's Rest. Now, with that said, with Jiggly executing rest and missing it is a major downfall as there is such a delay. With Falcon however, the delay isn't bad. I've been able to combo into a knee very effectively, and never have trouble with it. Seriously, it's just different than before, takes more precision that's all. If you were good at Jiggly's rest, you'll be good at Falcon's Knee..

I'm serious. Practice..

No amount of Jiggz training will help because hitstun in this game is so **** low and so many characters have more priority than CF that he can't reliably combo into a Knee. Jiggz had a bread-and-butter combo, Uptilt -> Rest and it worked reliably on a alot of the cast. That was all she needed to combo into a kill move. If you weren't sure, you could Utilt -> Uair -> rest. The only thing that playing jiggz in melee has taught me more of is predicting something into my kill move. The only way to reliably get the Knee off is to predict a roll, jump, or whatever and intercept. Comboing into a knee against a good opponent is **** near impossible.

Combos don exits.