Know Your Ships: TL Stage Discussion (Currently Discussing Halberd)

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Know Your Ships: TL Stage Discussion

Soooo.... What exactly do we discuss here?
What to do on them, how good it is for TL, characters to CP them against, etc etc. Anything you know about that stage.

How does this work?
Pick a stage, any non-banned stage. Then, discuss to your heart's content about that stage.

Why one at a time?
To prevent this from getting out of hand.

Why do you do a recap?
So I can add it to the OP under "past stage discussions".

Isn't this exactly like sauske's thread?
To me, it seemed like sauske's thread was to detail certain MUs. This extends beyond that, and is stage discussion in genral.

Why Pirate ship?
Because it's TL's home stage & it's a ship.


The Format
Once everything about the stage has been said, I will do a recap using the following format. You do not have to post in this format. Also, I will not finish a stage discussion until each of the following has been addressed.

Overall: How good the stage is for TL. Uses scale Great Good Okay Bad Awful.
Genral Info: Things not TL specific go here, such as blastzones, hazards & the like.
Who to CP against: list of characters who you should CP this against.
Who not to CP against: List of characters you should not CP this against.
Strategies: What to do on the stage.
Miscellaneous: Glitches and the like go here
Other Stuff: (optional) Other recources go here, such as this.

Current List

Spoiler

Starter / Counter Stages

• Battlefield
• Yoshi's Island
• Smashville
  Recommended for 3+ stage starter list
  
  
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium
  Recommended for 5+ stage starter list
  
  
• Final Destination
• Castle Siege
  Recommended for 7+ stage starter list
  
  
• Delfino Plaza
• Halberd
  Recommended for 9 stage starter list

Counter-pick Stages

Counter Pick Group One

These stages are typically used as counter picks, alongside any starters that might not have been in the starter list. TOs looking for a reliable set of counter picks are recommended to at least include these.​

• Frigate Orpheon
• Brinstar

Counter Pick Group Two

These counter picks are less of a standard, but still relatively commonly used. They are considered to be perfectly playable in a competitive environment in the sense that they provide consistent results when used properly. However, they typically require extensive stage knowledge more so than the stages not in this category and have interfering or perhaps over-centralizing hazards which don't suit everyone's tastes. Note that they have been ordered in terms of overall acceptance in the BBR, which also holds true for tier three.​

• Pictochat
• Rainbow Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Jungle Japes
• Norfair

Counter Pick Group Three

These stages vary in the amount they're used in the competitive scene today. While some are adopted by MLG and the Midwest, others are rarely seen, if at all. The BBR itself is as split on their competitive viability as the scene at large. Otherwise, the same applies as with tier two stages.
​

• Green Greens
• Distant Planet
• Luigi's Mansion
• Pirate Ship
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)

Banned Stages

• Mushroomy Kingdom 1
• Mushroomy Kingdom 2
• Mario Circuit
• Rumble Falls
• Bridge of Eldin
• Spear Pillar
• Wario Ware
• New Pork City
• Summit
• Skyworld
• 75m
• Mario Bros.
• Flat Zone 2
• Hanenbow
• Shadow Moses Island
• Green Hill Zone
• Temple
• Onett
• Corneria
• Big Blue

Current Stage: Halberd

Gogogogo.

 

[AvengedHeart4Ever]

After watching some American Toon Links, I believe that you guys should consider Halberd as a counterpick except against Snake or someone who could perhaps camp at our level or better.. such as olimar. The platform in the center makes it hard for them to approach us. If they enter from below they can get zair'ed or projectiles. Above they will have to risk the same thing, but we can hide underneath so we could shark them with uairs. You must also consider the low ceiling since it makes it a lot easier for us to kill with moves such as uair, utilt, and usmash.

 

[napZzz]

I agree with the above post, talking to near before I was curious about tinks counterpick stage options or maybe it was some dumb argument (w/e) and I said that halberd seemed like his best choice, most of his kill moves are off the top, usmash being the most important one, as well as uair and bair (sort of) and it seems like he camps pretty well on the first part (not too sure) and has TONS of room to be stupid on the 2nd

why wouldn't you pick it?

 

[MJG]

Nappy you suck. Get the hell out of our boards.

 

[napZzz]

I love you too baby

toon links usmash kills lower on halberd

^^^
stage discussion

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Halberd it is.

Adding to the discussion, this might help.

 

[WindMajor]

May I recommend a slight change in format? Just move the Strategies section under the Who Not to CP section. Also, add a section for General information, where we could mention blastlines, size, ledges, hazards, etc. This would be different from the Other stuff section, which I would imagine it would be random facts about the stage, for example, what Nappy said about Usmashing through the platform.

I'll give you some input on Halberd in a bit.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Thanks for the suggestion, AP. I actually meant for other stuff to be info non-TL specific, with Nappy's part going in strategies.

Edit: general info added, links & other recources go in other stuff.

 

[CTX]

There are a couple of weird tricks certain characters can do on this stage.

Lucas (I don't know if Ness can do this) can PKT2 through the stage. What I mean is, at the ledge, the hitbox (or the box that is important for connecting for PKT2) can go through the ledge and hit Lucas. So be careful when coming up from the ledge, when the PKT1 is underneath the stage, he may be trying set that up.

Metaknight and Ike can both glitch and remain somewhat invincible (Metaknight more than Ike) by being inside the stage.

I'm currently busy with last minute getting stuff to go move into my new apartament (financial independence FTW) but I will be back laters

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I don't think we need to care much about the MK-Ike thing, as that would be considered stalling.

About ness & Lucas, does it happen in the hangar, in midair, or on the bridge?

I also read somwhere that, while halberd's ceiling is very high, the main platform changes latitude and longitude, making it impossible to grade normally.

 

[CTX]

It happens on all but the hangar. This trick also works on ledges like battlefield and smashville. Not sure about FD and PS1

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ah, I see where you're getting now. The same glitch is also possible with wolf flash.

Also, a good tactic (as with any stage with hazards) is to keep the hazards under you command. Try to push your opponents into the hazards, use the hazards to get them in an akward position, etc etc.

Hazards: Combo cannon (arm, bombs, & laser), instant ko takeoff?

 

[MaskedAvnger]

halberd has a low ceiling though, that's why snake and luigi are super boss there.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

So don't CP weegee and snake to there?

 

[Tomato]

I probably wouldn't. It'd be a really good place to take Lucario since he has trouble killing upwards, or so I've heard.

And yeah, I think Ness has the same properties as Lucas when it comes to the penetration of their PKT2 attacks. So they can both go through it or both cannot go through it. Lucas's attack gets longer distance, but Ness' is deadlier.

I recently picked up Toon Link as a secondary to Ness, and I really like playing at Japes with Toon Link. I would probably be inclined to avoid a stage like Castle Siege that gimps projectives at certain points, as well as Yoshi's Island (Brawl) because of the Shy Guys. Green Green's falling blocks get in the way too. Basically anywhere where there aren't many platforms or open space is not good for a Toon Link, I'd say. Halberd's low ceiling and open space make for a good counterpick for him.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Definetley don't CP mk to there. His sharking skills would come in handy. On the other hand, characters with slow mobility, such as gdorf, would probably be good people to CP this stage against.

About the ledge glitch: It is possible with wolf, ness, Lucas, and, in theory, pikachu.

On how good the stage is, I would probably rate it a good. Thoughts?

On another note, while the rest of the stage has a really low ceiling, the hangar has a moderately high one.

 

[MJG]

iBomb beats sharking.

iBomb is so cheap.

 

[MaskedAvnger]

ceiling on the hangar doesn't matter, you don't have enough time there to worry about scoring an upwards kill there, and you never return once the ship takes off. Only thing to wary of is being on the ship when it takes off (which is almost a non-factor), if you are fighting near the sides, don't get grabbed.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Forgot about iBombing.

@avnger

Or, you could fight with a bomb, so it'll explode when they grab you.

What I have so far:

Overall: good
Genral info: low ceiling, medium boundaries, Shells (bridge), arm (bridge), laser (bridge), and OHKO takeoff(?) serve as hazards.
Who to CP against: Haven't decided.
Who not to CP against: haven't decided.
Strategies: In the midair part, shark. Us iBomb to stop sharkers. Abuse the low ceiling using TL's vertical KO moves.
Miscellaneous: Wolf, Ness, Lucas can preform a glitch that allows them to go through the stage near the ledges.

Thoughts?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Bump...... Come on people, think of stuff!

 

[MJG]

Twink and I are working on a project (real slow going lol)

Just wait sir

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

......Fine.

 

[WindMajor]

Twink and I are working on a project (real slow going lol)

Just wait sir

Yeah we have to get back on that.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I can help.