Koopa Questions: a Bowser Q&A Thread

[MrEh]

if your shielding Marths sideB can you upB OoS it at any point?

UpB comes out in 1 frame. So yeah, if you jump cancel it properly, then it can come out at any time.


That doesn't mean that it'll hit Marth though.

 

[Flayl]

You can't UpB OoS in shield stun, but yeah if you shield it and he gets too close he's eating fortress.

 

[Alfa]

Just curious if anyone has noticed this before, but when you use the Koopa Klaw as you land, by pressing A instead of jumping as if you were Koopa Hopping, Bowser will emit one of the roars he makes at the start of almost all of his attacks, while still landing laglessly. It isn't useful unless you play someone who relies heavily on sound (lolwut), but is still pretty cool, and can be combined with other moves so Bowser roars really quickly in succesion. Although it is more useful as a taunt rather than anything else.

I was wondering exactly how Bowser's Koopa Klaw works lately, after noticing how you can Aerial Up B out of it, even without Tap jumps on, instead of Koopa Hopping and if it just cancels at a certain height, or if it places Bowser at a certain height, if the latter is true, then I wonder what would happen if someone Forward B'd on every (few) frame(s) (hacks/turbo controllers could be used to achieve this).

 

[Kirk]

When you are Klawing into the ground, the attack "cancels itself" one frame before actually touching the ground. I don't know how else better to explain it, but you're left at a point where the game thinks you are both on the ground and in the air.

With most specials, there is code to handle the transition between the air and the ground. This is easily seen with Bowser's fortress and fire breath. You start them in the air, and they continue to progress when you land on the ground. The animations and property transitions are all very seamless, as they are meant to be. With the Klaw, no matter where you start it, it immediately halts the animation when you touch the ground. There is no code that handles that transition, so it is essentially just canceling the attack, and you are left in that "gray area" of being both on the ground and in the air.

Because it thinks you are on the ground, the Klaw wants to cancel into an idle animation, as well as restore your second jump(if you used it). But you are technically still in the air, so you are left in an "idle" animation in the air. Thus, if you press A or try to Fortress, you will perform an aerial or an aerial fortress because you are technically still in the air.

I don't have the data on me, but its a safe bet that the SFX from Bowser's aerials trigger on frame 1 of their activation(from what you describe), thus you can hear them before the aerial is canceled from landing. You land with zero lag because you are landing in the first autocancel frame window of the aerial(which is usually just a few frames for most characters), before the landing lag frame window.

I'm unsure what would happen if you repeatedely Klaw'd at that particular frame(tool assisted). I don't think anything would come from it, though. Though naturally I could be wrong, just speculation at this point. And interesting idea, though.

Apologies if some of this was known already. I'm going off the top of my head from experience with Boozer and random PSA stuffs.

 

[B!squick]

I didn't know much that. With Bowser it was always, "DUDE! Look at how fast I can make him jump!" I never worried too much about the particulars.

 

[Flayl]

Yeah what's happening is that you're cancelling an aerial before the hitbox comes out, so you get Bowser's roar without actually attacking.

 

[B!squick]

Okay, BK, I would like to be given the match up topic. I have too much time on my hands and I actually feel like doing something useful for a change.

 

[B!squick]

Does anyone know who I get a hold of to update the match up chart?

 

[Hobobloke]

Mmac I believe, it says it just under the chart

 

[B!squick]

*looks them up*

Mmac hasn't been online in 3 months.

 

[Hobobloke]

Uh-oh.

Maybe anyone good with photoshop?

 

[MrEh]

I made an updated chart ages ago.

It has Lo Pan in it.

 

[B!squick]

Oh sweet. Will you be keeping it up to date, MrEh?

 

[MrEh]

Oh sweet. Will you be keeping it up to date, MrEh?

Dunno, I would have to find the chart first. lol

 

[Shök]

*Searches for chart* >_>

 

[jaaboy]

noob question: when bowser is on the ledge and you do like a get up attack, how do you do the quick one versus the slow one? Like one bowser just slowly climbs up and swipes his claw and the other one he quickly gets into his shell and it almost looks like hes fortessing onto the stage. Thanksssss

 

[Liquid Gen]

noob question: when bowser is on the ledge and you do like a get up attack, how do you do the quick one versus the slow one? Like one bowser just slowly climbs up and swipes his claw and the other one he quickly gets into his shell and it almost looks like hes fortessing onto the stage. Thanksssss

The quick one is when you're under 100%.

The slow one is when you're above 100%.

 

[KingKong_ad]

if you have less than 100% you will do the quick one otherwise you will do the really really slow one.

 

[Cassius.]

That being said, I really like our v100% getup attack lol. It can be easily intercepted (you know, shield, fsmash/jab etc) but still, it looks cool. :]

 

[jaaboy]

ah, okay thanks

 

[Melancholy]

So, I've got a tourney next weekend that I'm probably going to play Bowser in; of these stages, what are some of his better counterpicks? I've never played as him in tourney before :S

STARTER (3)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick (10)
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

 

[Red Arremer]

Starters are pretty much Bowser's best stages. Check the Stage Discussion-thread for more information on them.

 

[JOE!]

the heck happened to bowser genral discussion? or the second page for that mater?

 

[Flayl]

Your best starter, most of the times, is Battlefield. The other times, against MK/Marth/G&W/Ike it's Final Destination.

That counterpick list is really strange, why are Pokémon Stadium 2/Rainbow Cruise/Jungle japes banned while Pictochat is allowed? If they wanted a conservative stage list they should remove Pictochat too.

Anyway, your best counterpick against projectile users, chaingrabbers and Diddy Kong is Brinstar. If that gets banned consider Battlefield/Castle Siege/Pokémon Stadium 1 against projectile users, Frigate Orpheon against chaingrabbers and Delfino Plaza against Diddy.

Against other people: If you're profficient at chaingrabbing them, pick Final Destination, and if that's banned, Castle Siege.

Otherwise just go to battlefield, except against MK/Marth/G&W/Ike. Against those 4 go with whatever is more comfortable to you (MK is easy to chaingrab btw).

Hope I covered all the matchups you might face.

 

[Flayl]

the heck happened to bowser genral discussion? or the second page for that mater?

Hrrrrujjjjjjjjj (bbgd) is the bowser boards general discussion thread.

The second page is gone becaase old threads are automatically hidden past a certain timeline, depending on your display option at the bottom of the forum.

 

[Melancholy]

Thanks a lot for the help Flayl.

Yeah, the stage list is kinda weird IMO, but I guess the idea is for it to be conservative. Rainbow cruise is banned because of MK, but there are very few decent MK's in my area :S
Doesn't really bother me though, especially if, as you and Onishiba say, my better stages are starters.

When you say chaingrabbing, you mean all of bowsers grab release stuff, right?

 

[Flayl]

Specifically the releases that allow you to regrab your opponent, yes. Otherwise there's no point in picking Final Destination.

 

[MrEh]

Go FD when you need the room to move around, or when no other neutral/counterpick is a viable option.

 

[JOE!]

Hrrrrujjjjjjjjj (bbgd) is the bowser boards general discussion thread.

The second page is gone becaase old threads are automatically hidden past a certain timeline, depending on your display option at the bottom of the forum.

 

[Sliq]

Has anyone researched or tested jumping out of the suicide klaw? I did some tests, and found it was incredibly easy to do on Norfair, doing it almost every time without a sweat. Then I went to BF and found it IMPOSSIBLE to do, even on 1/4 game speed.

Does anyone know the factors that leads to this happening?

 

[KingKong_ad]

Actually I made some researches on this and I got some good results. But why its easier on some stage than other ?? I still dont know but im working on it.I will post this tomorrow cuz im really tired right now >.>

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I figured it was just the fact that the stages all have different bottom blast lines, requiring different timings

I find it really easy to do when your opponent is on their last stock on any stage for some reason. I've been thinking it's because the game ends and then goes into slow motion after your opponent dies but before you do, making the timing more lenient???

 

[Hobobloke]

I usually just mash jump considering on most stages you can't recover afterwards anyways.

 

[Sliq]

Really, all I did was mash jump and up. Doing this, I jumped almost every time on Norfair, but failed to replicate any sort of consistency elsewhere.

 

[Dre89]

Hey I'm considering becoming a Bowser main so I have a few questions-

I know Bowser has alot of KO options, but what are the best methods of getting them? Eg. jab cancel to dtilt etc.

Secondly, it seems like half of his moves are KO moves, but which ones should I stale and which ones should I save as finishers?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kazz@]

Stale Ftilt, and a little Fair and Dsmash too. Fortress works as an option.

Save up your Fsmash, cause you're not going to use it much at all.

 

[Hobobloke]

If dsmash is staling you're using waaay too much of it.

 

[Flayl]

Utilt, Dtilt, BAir and UAir are your primary killing tools (UAir is the hardest to land though IMO). Mindgamed FSmashes/Bombs are good, but should be used sparingly.

Revenge-kills with the klaw are good too, specially on stages with platforms (lets you kill earlier).

Just know that klaw is one of your primary damage rackers, it will stale fast.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser has multiple ways to kill, depending on the situation.


Utilt is a general purpose killing move. Works wonders if you're properly positioned.

Dtilt works out of a grab release against certain characters.

Bair is your general edgeguarding tool. Learn to land it.

Uair is your lucksack move. If you can mindgame these, you're golden. Also functions as a good frame trap.

Fair and Klaw can work at absurd percents, and if they're fresh.

Fsmash is a pro spacing tool, and can get a surprise kill on many characters if you can find a proper way to land it fresh. (I use it to challenge spaced moves.)

Bowser Bombs are for mindgames yo.

 

[Dre89]

Thanks guys, so I shouldn't save ftilt, fair, koopa klaw and perhaps dsmash.

But I should save dtilt, bowser bomb, usmash, fsmash obviously, uair, utilt and bair.

That seems like quite alot of moves to save for KO's, which ones should I use in general combat and stale instead?