KTAR 2: Return Of Spamerer!! Saturday March 20th!! Somerset NJ!!

[-Blue-]

What's really funny is if the situation was reversed I would have no chance of winning the argument. Heh. Oh well. If I'm going to be hated (inevitable, I suppose) I'll make sure I deserve it, I guess. I'll be studying the rule-sets carefully, and run the clock, and so on.

no i wouldnt say hate.

@ everyone else......whats done is done. why continue to stress this issue further. it shouldnt .....seriously this ban/stage cp shouldnt happen again. if he says he didnt know he didnt know. instead of blazing at cheese just let it be known as we all did and let him live. i agree it looks like cheese snaked J.G. and very well knew what he was doing. but nows the time to let it go. everyones point was proven so lets just chill.

 

[ch33s3]

I was actually unsure of how it worked, which is WHY I ASKED. I presumed you could, in fact, pick a stage you banned, but I never ran into a situation where it would work in my favor before, thus, asking. The reasoning I have (which I don't feel the need to repost, again) makes sense. I was well aware that since it was legal to do so, it was probably not known widely, so the odds were if I banned a stage the other person wouldn't but just because a rule isn't widely known/popular doesn't make it any less valid. I got owned by the "you can't change character if your opponent picks a random stage" rule recently because I didn't know about it/realize it.

 

[Max Ketchum]

The difference is that being unable to switch characters if they counterpick random is completely logical. It's counterpicking characters on neutral, balanced stages to give yourself a matchup advantage.

Being able to play the stage that YOU banned? I think dm said it the best here. Why, if that were even close to legal, would he not ALWAYS sit down and immediately tell his opponent that he bans Rainbow Cruise? If you were so truly and honestly unaware of the ruling regarding this, why would you not sit down and IMMEDIATELY ban FD so you could counterpick it at least once in the past?

 

[ch33s3]

Well, the way that I see it, and I think this is how it should work, is that your ban should prevent your opponent from choosing the stage, and that's all. So if say, Diem banned RC, and his opponent won their CP, if they didn't want to let Diem choose RC, they should ban it. If you disagree with me, that's fine, but there is solid logic behind my points.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Solid logic? Really? The very DEFINITION of the word "ban" implies that it is being removed, i.e. illegalized from the set. There actually is something in the ruleset on the front page of EVERY tournament--it says "banned stages may be played with the agreement of both players and a judge's approval". Each player had the prerogative to ban two stages at KTAR, and you chose to ban FD. It was a banned stage for the duration of that set. Did JG agree? No. A judge did, but both players did not consent to it.

If banning a stage simply meant that your opponent could not pick it, that'd be absolutely ridiculous. At that point, it's not even BANNING a stage. Might as well call it your "reserve", because in your fantasy world, banning a stage = reserving the right to pick it for any reason. The entire counterpicking system would quite literally come down to a race of who reserves the gayest stage for their character first. It's clear that you knew what you were doing and you're using very poor excuses to cover that up.

Oh yeah, evidence further proving that you weren't seriously unaware of this being a rule? You said you exploited a loophole that you knew JG would fall through. Eat a ****, you snaked him.

Edit: Building on this stupid "reserve" concept you seem to have, it'd often come down to two people "banning" the same stage in one set. Have you ever seen that happen before? Nope, you haven't.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yes, I KNOW you asked before it. You relied on JG not being able to defend himself due to lacking a prepared argument and Keitaro's/Alex's lack of knowledge regarding the rule.

You got lucky.

Do you know he doesn't actually believe that's what the rule means? Heck, can you point out a rule against it (as I pointed out before, there's no rule against it in the particular tournament ruleset).


He asked JG, he asked the TO (remember, most tournaments have that you may go to a banned stage by agreement), he dotted every "i", crossed every "t".


Is it a bad idea to not include the section about counterpicks and bans? Probably. Was it a bad idea for JG to say yes to it? Probably. If he didn't ask JG, should the TO have allowed it? Probably not.


But this isn't cheese's fault, and I know he's not exactly liked around here, and I'm certainly not defending him because of personal bias or ****, but the reality is, when the TO rules on something, if it's a bad call, it's the TO's fault. If the rules don't include something important, it's the TO's fault. If a player agrees to play on a stage via gentleman's rule, it's his fault.


Was it wrong in the grand scheme of things? Yes, probably. Was it Cheese's fault? Not in the least, he acted in a manner he believed was correct and did everything right.


Keitaro already accepted responsability for this, let it die.

 

[ch33s3]

Doom, I know you're just trying to antagonize me at this point. I did NOTHING wrong. I checked the details of the rules with the TO, found a way to use them to my advantage, and did so. That's all. This community doesn't appreciate playing to win within the constraints of the rules (which i VERIFIED).

 

[ANTi_]

Running the clock is mad gay. Nobody wants to see that ****, eventually a T.O is going to ban you from their tournament if you do it in every set like how you claim you would.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Adumbrodeus, JG did not agree to it. There was already a testimony from an onlooker that JG DISAGREED with it.

Edit: I'm not trying to antagonize you at all.

 

[Vinnie]

I would just ban Cheese from a tourney for existing. But that's just me.

 

[ch33s3]

JG disagreed, obviously. I expected him to, which is why I asked Keitaro ahead of time.

You know what, fine, hate me. I snaked JG, and you should all APPRECIATE the move. In the context of the game, dirty moves are SMART. I played to WIN. Something you should all be doing, and a lot of you are, and that's good. Lose the scrub mentality. Not doing things like that is like not using the new AT I found, or the one that hasn't been disseminated as yet that I heard about. STUPID AS HELL.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Dirty moves are smart, but this wasn't exactly a dirty move. Planking, running the timer, etc. is dirty. I'm not criticizing you for that. You cheated JG. You didn't play to win because you won without even having to play.

Scrub mentality = criticizing gay play. I don't mind gay play. I support it too. I don't, however, support cheating. Cheating is for scrubs, like the ones who tell you to check out the ostrich running across the road while they nab a few pawns off the board when you look away.

 

[ch33s3]

I didn't cheat. Cheating would be Keitaro saying no, and me lying to JG saying he approved. Cheating is going outside the rules of the competition, which I did not do, the TO said what I did was fine. Had he said "no, you can't play a stage you ban", I would not have, obviously.

 

[Zucco]

cheater....

 

[Max Ketchum]

Good point, I suppose. Imo, they're cheating on two different degrees. Apparently, on top of Keitaro's/Alex's unsureness of the rules, you also bombarded them with questions and pressured them into approving.

Like I said before, you got lucky here. There's no way JG could have fought the ruling here without a very solid, prepared, well-thought-out argument to counter your incessant questioning. You're good at devil's advocate, I'll give you that.

The problem still lies in the fact that you did, in fact, break the rules of the competition--

NOTE: You may play any banned stage as long as both you, and your opponent agree and ask a judge! If you agree, there will be no complaints!

This is right on the front page of the tournament. It doesn't require any deep knowledge of the ruleset, simply comprehension of exactly what is said.

JG Wentworth: "What do you ban?"

Cheese: "I ban FD and Halberd."

FD is now a banned stage for the set, straight out of your mouth. Even if the judge consented, did JG? No, and there's testimony to this. The only reason he'd have even had for actually letting you hit start on the stage select screen would be the fact that it was already **** near time to leave the venue and fighting it would eat up valuable time. Keitaro had a ton of **** to do.

Edit: LOL Zucco

 

[Vinnie]

**** Zucco LOL how many infractions did you get?

 

[Zucco]

banned from AiB................

Spoiler

got ems

 

[Vinnie]

LMAOOOOoOo

 

[AllyKnight]

god shut up all of you, next tournament just make sure u dont do the same mistake, sucks for JG though but seriously close this thread if possible.

 

[ANTi_]

Zucco didn't you play on Gamebattles back in 08? if so i remember losing to you rofl.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Adumbrodeus, JG did not agree to it. There was already a testimony from an onlooker that JG DISAGREED with it.

Edit: I'm not trying to antagonize you at all.

Ok, fair enough, then it was the TO's call, onus on him. TOs are responsible for their ruleset, they should know it and stick with their rules. If they decide after the fact that they didn't like the way they ruled, say "I will rule this way in the future" or "I'm making a change for the next tournament I run".

Attacking individual players for following their rules is pointless.

 

[Zucco]

Zucco didn't you play on Gamebattles back in 08? if so i remember losing to you rofl.

yeah that was a long time ago. I have trouble remembering alot of my matches from back than though. I Dont even remember my password onto that site lol. Cant believe I beat you though lmao! Rollcario is such a silly character.

 

[ch33s3]

Most of my questions were actually about stalling rules, I did pressure Keitaro into giving me a definition for "stalling" which I think was necessary for everyone to hear. He defined it as going back and forth under the stage 4 consecutive times without touching the main stage unless you get hit, or hitting 40 ledge grabs. Of course, I then pushed that rule to its fullest extent (NOT A BAD THING, SMART!). There really was no pressure put on Keitaro about the stage ban thing, I asked a question, he gave me an answer.

 

[KT Kasrani]

@ zucco.

u spelled cheater wrong on the 456th time.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Bottom line: It's too late to remedy the situation. In the future, a better understanding of the rules is necessary for TOs and attendees, alike.

 

[Zucco]

I got 3 infraction points for that cheater thing. we out.

 

[BleachigoZX]

It's all good, I'll let JG listen to my brothers new iPod.

 

[teh_spamerer]

I think dm said it the best here. Why, if that were even close to legal, would he not ALWAYS sit down and immediately tell his opponent that he bans Rainbow Cruise?

If he has to play someone using Diddy or Icies, doesn't he deserve it for allowing FD?

god shut up all of you, next tournament just make sure u dont do the same mistake, sucks for JG though but seriously close this thread if possible.

LOL

 

[adumbrodeus]

Oh dear god, teh_spamerer is back?!

Welcome to the death of brawl.


Also, could you train me, please?

 

[ANTi_]

Oh dear god, teh_spamerer is back?!

If he didnt go to a tournament named after him what makes you think hes back?

 

[adumbrodeus]

If he didnt go to a tournament named after him what makes you think hes back?

I figured it was a knock-off or perhaps a gag till I saw him post...

 

[fkacyan]

Running the clock is mad gay. Nobody wants to see that ****, eventually a T.O is going to ban you from their tournament if you do it in every set like how you claim you would.

LATE REPLY

This makes no sense because people keep trying to get spam to go to tourneys instead of banning him from them.

:3

 

[ADHD]

Cheese took my wifi ranking points! Ban him!

 

[ANTi_]

LATE REPLY

This makes no sense because people keep trying to get spam to go to tourneys instead of banning him from them.

:3

If one person starts a fad, then everyone joins in on it.

Doesnt it start to get old and boring?

 

[Alex Strife]

when should get velocity to come eh? lol

 

[Crizthakidd]

im really hyped for this tourny!

....