KTAR 5 Results - 5/21/11 - 116 Entrants!!

[HyperEnergy]

3: ADHD - GGs in doubles.
5: Nairo - GGs in doubles.
13: Keitaro - I'm glad that the tournament I came to after a long break ended up being a good one. Thanks for all the help with rides and stuff.
13: Holy Nightmare - I really liked the way you played Metaknight in our set. Great decision making and patience. GGs.
17: vVv Chibosempai - GGs. I enjoyed our set.
25: Deltacod - GGs in doubles.
33: RJ - Great job helping to run the tournament. And thanks for giving me a good spectator experience.
33: Kai - Nice to see you again. Too bad we never got a chance to play.
49: Nasty - Nice to see you're still repping Lucas. I kinda want to play you again to see what your Lucas is capable of after all this time.
65: Raptor - GGs in doubles. Lol, now that I think about, I have no clue which Yoshi was you and which Yoshi was Deltacod.
65: Dark Peach - Lol at the car ride to the venue. You're actually a really funny guy.
65: Deven3000 - Nice to see you again. Also, poor Tony T. ;p
65: Alex Strife - Great to see you here.
65: Tony T - If I ever come to another tournament, we should do one of those dreaded Lucario dittos. Lol, keep working on your Lucario though, I can see you becoming a top player if you improve your mindset.
97: Xivk - Haha, trying to get the Luigi taunt spike? Definitely not gonna let that happen.
DMBrandon - Next time we meet I want to play you in MvC3.

Shoutouts to the people I played MvC3 with. I dunno who you were but I'm glad I had the chance to play a few matches.

And GGs to anyone else I might've played.

 

[Robfox]

wow this is still goin 0__o

EDIT: WHERE IS WILL V CABLE @ ?????
nvm found it XD

 

[AlphaZealot]

Ankoku stomping on Divinokage with actual logic. To good. Can't believe some people are sticking up for the practice - just shows how far the community has degraded and also how long it has been going on.

We should just charge low entrance fee's and give out trophies instead of money. Though I bet they'd take a hacksaw and cut those in half, to.

 

[Tesh]

You guys can't split the placing or the glory can you? Even if they all get 1/3rd or 1/4th of the money regardless, why not play it out to see who is better at the moment. You can still play competitively if you are friends with the people you are playing against. Its what happens at locals and monthly tournaments across the country. Thats the true spirit of competitive gaming imo.

 

[Divinokage]

Apparently, though, it doesn't really matter who wins when several placements mean the same thing.

Ankoku stomping on Divinokage with actual logic. To good. Can't believe some people are sticking up for the practice - just shows how far the community has degraded and also how long it has been going on.

We should just charge low entrance fee's and give out trophies instead of money. Though I bet they'd take a hacksaw and cut those in half, to.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

 

[Tony T]

Jtails vs Nakat Losers Bracket

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN1Fxnc9vhU

Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvlEs2KbhE

Match 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpGJFBEku0Q


$5 mm Tony T vs Nakat

Match 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAwHyrv8dX4

Match 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N2QzlwnNmE

Also Please subscribe to My Youtube account: http://www.youtube.com/user/NYCTonyT

2 More MMs Vinnie and Pwii I'll upload them tomorrow.

 

[D. Disciple]

Where the Luc dittos at?

 

[Zankoku]

I don't really understand what you are trying to say.

I'm actually surprised that, given your philosophy of always aiming for the top and constant improvement, you're fine with other people not only not aiming for the top, but also aiming for the category of "good enough to reach a point that he can ask to split".

 

[Djent]

Do you know what splitting says to people like me, who are on the fringe of joining this community seriously?

"Don't bother. Our game sucks so much that we won't even play it for money."

...I'm dead serious. If you play because you love the game and want to be the best, more or less money shouldn't make a difference. The fact that top Brawl players are so complacent with splitting means that they no longer pride themselves in their accomplishments. And if the best players don't even value their wins, then why should anyone else? These people know the in's and out's of the game better than anybody, yet they can't be bothered to play out serious sets?

How shallow of a game is this, that it's top players no longer care about defending their titles? If there's no intrinsic value in the struggle between two great minds, then how can you say with a straight face that the game produces greatness at all? And why should anyone else bother to rise to the top, if getting there leads to a state of apathy? The answer is, they won't: they'll play another game, where the top players respect and enjoy the game itself enough to try their hardest.

Think on that one for a while.

 

[Tony T]

Where the Luc dittos at?

RJ wants to upload them -_-

RJ upload them darn it.

 

[Judo777]

I wanna know when people get smart and start agreeing to split then not splitting once you have won. They can't really report it without breaking the rules and possibly getting banned from future tourneys sounds smart to me lol.

When this happens people will also stop splitting.

 

[Blacknight99923]

what rich said

Other regions are going to **** your *** if you keep splitting instead of getting better.

I'm calling it now

that being said I doubt you care about regional pride at all, so feel free to ignore me.

 

[Robfox]

what rich said

Other regions are going to **** your *** if you keep splitting instead of getting better.

I'm calling it now

that being said I doubt you care about regional pride at all, so feel free to ignore me.

..........
although idgaf about the situation I have to say
EC > Any region lol

 

[iRJi]

I don't have my wii. When I get it back from RizMF, I will upload them.

This argument is dumb and silly btw. Drop it. It's beneath you all to continue to debate about something that already has an end result. The logic between you both also is a but flawed. Just end it, kiss and make up, and keep it movin'. No point in getting angry at friends for a character who swings a digital sword.

 

[RichBrown]

Do you know what splitting says to people like me, who are on the fringe of joining this community seriously?

"Don't bother. Our game sucks so much that we won't even play it for money."

...I'm dead serious. If you play because you love the game and want to be the best, more or less money shouldn't make a difference. The fact that top Brawl players are so complacent with splitting means that they no longer pride themselves in their accomplishments. And if the best players don't even value their wins, then why should anyone else? These people know the in's and out's of the game better than anybody, yet they can't be bothered to play out serious sets?

How shallow of a game is this, that it's top players no longer care about defending their titles? If there's no intrinsic value in the struggle between two great minds, then how can you say with a straight face that the game produces greatness at all? And why should anyone else bother to rise to the top, if getting there leads to a state of apathy? The answer is, they won't: they'll play another game, where the top players respect and enjoy the game itself enough to try their hardest.

Think on that one for a while.

GREAT post.

 

[ANTi_]

what rich said

Other regions are going to **** your *** if you keep splitting instead of getting better.

I'm calling it now

that being said I doubt you care about regional pride at all, so feel free to ignore me.

Lol no?

Me and ADHD split since 2009 and he ended up beating Havok/Rich Brown/Mikehaze at DC, don't assume stupid ****.

And at Pound V i beat ESAM/Gnes/Seibrik so that assumption is out of the window.

 

[TheTantalus]

Tantalus: You quit because you support splitting?

Another view (from AiB):

No you dum dum look at the below post

Duh it would've mattered smartass lol.

If he was passionate about his tournament to the point where he was serious as hell about us not splitting i would've respected his word enough to not split since he's usually respectful to me.

An eye for an eye.

But what's done is done.

EDIT : Most likely would've told ADHD + M2K "Keitaro said we cant split because we will get banned from the next KTAR or something." ... simple.

That's why I quit because you allow this to happen so you can make people look bad and force the rules on someone. This would never have happened at an event I ran even if I used unity. I would've told the players up front and made it a big deal that splitting was not allowed. It was obviously a big enough deal to write an offense for it, yet there was never a WORD said about splitting during the entire tournament.

 

[Zankoku]

You're still not being especially clear... you quit like a month before this tournament was run because you knew something bad about splitting would happen?

 

[Juushichi]

Lol no?

Me and ADHD split since 2009 and he ended up beating Havok/Rich Brown/Mikehaze at DC, don't assume stupid ****.

And at Pound V i beat ESAM/Gnes/Seibrik so that assumption is out of the window.

He's more or less implying that it will happen in the future, Anti.

 

[etecoon]

That's why I quit because you allow this to happen so you can make people look bad and force the rules on someone.

AZ allowed the split to happen at keitaro's tournament?

I've been a somewhat outspoken critic of the BBRRC and the extremely questionable way in which it was formed, and I do see AZ as being someone more concerned with politics than the actual well being of the game, but I'm really not seeing your angle on this

I think punishing people ex post facto is kind of ridiculous but at the same time it's essentially just saying "don't do it again", people getting too uptight about nothing

 

[Alex Strife]

I posted how I felt in the discussion thread but I will say this.

In looking at both sides I can understand where everyone is coming from. Bottom line this was more of punishment not being created until after the fact, rather than, breaking the rules. If we yellow card these three then we should yellow card everyone that has done this since the Unity ruleset was created. That is the bottom line.

Did Anti / Wyatt / Jason do the right thing? To them yes...to everyone else...probably not. I am not upset at them really because this is not the first time it has been done and the SOLE reason this is an issue is because of who they are, rather than, what they did. This is more of someone wanting to punish them specifically. Bottom line it should be done moving forward not looking back.

@Tant : Tant its nothing against you but you make a lot of mistakes as a TO that really does not make someone want to go to your tournaments. What you did to Lain was flat out wrong and I wont go into detail but I'd say that you should talk a little bit less like a Jerk and more like a person that wants the community to prosper cause sometimes that does not come off. I understand this is how you talk but you should realize that starting more BS will not resolve an issue.

 

[TheTantalus]

None taken jonathan, I know where you're coming from

My point was if it were such a big deal to the BBRRC then they would've said something up front. I certainly would have.

That's all i'm saying. Which is what I think you're saying by saying that we should yellow card everyone who has offended since Unity, and i agree with that

I hate double standards and it pisses me off, that's why i came off like a jerk

 

[Alex Strife]

Tant getting upset on this wont resolve your issues. If I lashed out everytime I got pissed at things written here I'd be throwing chairs by now.

Bottom line I understand where your coming from but being calm always resolves it.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm actually surprised that, given your philosophy of always aiming for the top and constant improvement, you're fine with other people not only not aiming for the top, but also aiming for the category of "good enough to reach a point that he can ask to split".

That's not how it works.. I don't force my beliefs unto someone else.. they can do whatever they want. If some other people want to stop this, fine. Which is why it's either you follow the rules or you get strong enough to stop this.

 

[Keitaro]

Alex, I don't know why you would make claims as it being who they are. I think the situtation would have warranted trouble regardless of who it was. There's no proof at all that they were targeted because of who they are so I wouldn't make rigorous claims like that.

I can agree with you two to an extent. I said the same thing in the first place tbh. The rules of yellow cards and red cards weren't set up in the beginning.

But, there are rules stating punishment upon splitting/forfeiting. Sadly most tourney organizers have yet to begin to find a proper way in dealing with punishment or they simply didn't care much. What if I told Anti/M2K/ADHD they were banned from the next KTAR? Is that not fair because I didn't say (splitting means your banned) before the tourney started?

There's clearly rules saying splitting/forfeiting is punishable by the TO which means they can and will be punished in a way the TO decides which can include banning, cards, holding money aka whatever the TO decides. It doesn't specifically state how they will be punished or when they will be punished. This happens to be the punishment. I originally was with the "what!?!? yellow card outta nowhere!?" mindset but the rules clearly state the players will be punished by a TO. It doesn't say the TO will spank them in 3 days, or that the TO will ban them from the next event, but that the TO will punish them. This is the decision to punish. Its as simple as that.

As for me not flipping out about the split. As I said more than once, I was clearly pissed/sad when I heard of the split. If the BBRRC didn't exist I would have went into deep thought of how I'd never make splitting happen again at my regionals. I was told of the split after M2K forfeited so what was I gonna do then? Tell his *** to get up and play right now when it was beyond clear that he would rather hurt himself then play? In the end it got me pissed that M2K even entered the tournament in the first place.

Overall I'm happy this was setup because now there shouldn't be any splitting going on. I won't have to beg Jason to play his matches, won't have to have *** videos uploaded, pissed streamers, I'll have more hype for the my series, etc.

If anything, I was deeply against strong punishment for the players as I'm more for solving the problem than punishing players. But I'm using Unity, and this is a joint ruleset where we make joint decisions.

@ Tant: The entire BBRRC wasn't at the tournament so there's no way they could have brought it up front at KTAR. After Dabuz began the uproar in this thread and I mentioned the split in the backroom we immediately jumped on the subject.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Damnz Keitaro with the amazing post. Good stuff. Just said everything I was thinking and more.

 

[iRJi]

Alex, I don't know why you would make claims as it being who they are. I think the situtation would have warranted trouble regardless of who it was. There's no proof at all that they were targeted because of who they are so I wouldn't make rigorous claims like that.

I can agree with you two to an extent. I said the same thing in the first place tbh. The rules of yellow cards and red cards weren't set up in the beginning.

But, there are rules stating punishment upon splitting/forfeiting. Sadly most tourney organizers have yet to begin to find a proper way in dealing with punishment or they simply didn't care much. What if I told Anti/M2K/ADHD they were banned from the next KTAR? Is that not fair because I didn't say (splitting means your banned) before the tourney started?

There's clearly rules saying splitting/forfeiting is punishable by the TO which means they can and will be punished in a way the TO decides which can include banning, cards, holding money aka whatever the TO decides. It doesn't specifically state how they will be punished or when they will be punished. This happens to be the punishment. I originally was with the "what!?!? yellow card outta nowhere!?" mindset but the rules clearly state the players will be punished by a TO. It doesn't say the TO will spank them in 3 days, or that the TO will ban them from the next event, but that the TO will punish them. This is the decision to punish. Its as simple as that.

As for me not flipping out about the split. As I said more than once, I was clearly pissed/sad when I heard of the split. If the BBRRC didn't exist I would have went into deep thought of how I'd never make splitting happen again at my regionals. I was told of the split after M2K forfeited so what was I gonna do then? Tell his *** to get up and play right now when it was beyond clear that he would rather hurt himself then play? In the end it got me pissed that M2K even entered the tournament in the first place.

Overall I'm happy this was setup because now there shouldn't be any splitting going on. I won't have to beg Jason to play his matches, won't have to have *** videos uploaded, pissed streamers, I'll have more hype for the my series, etc.

If anything, I was deeply against strong punishment for the players as I'm more for solving the problem than punishing players. But I'm using Unity, and this is a joint ruleset where we make joint decisions.

@ Tant: The entire BBRRC wasn't at the tournament so there's no way they could have brought it up front at KTAR. After Dabuz began the uproar in this thread and I mentioned the split in the backroom we immediately jumped on the subject.

I have a question. There is a claim that the split was brought up to you before they actually did the split. Is that true?

 

[Keitaro]

I have a question. There is a claim that the split was brought up to you before they actually did the split. Is that true?

The split was brought to me after M2K forfeited before losers finals according to Anti.

 

[iRJi]

The split was brought to me after M2K forfeited from my memory and he was included in the split.

Ok, now also at the time, you allowed it to happen, right? Depending on this answer, I will write my thoughts in WoT mode or not lol.

This is not me picking sides btw, I am going to answer this in the most logical explanation I can which results in my 2c.

 

[Zankoku]

That's not how it works.. I don't force my beliefs unto someone else.. they can do whatever they want. If some other people want to stop this, fine. Which is why it's either you follow the rules or you get strong enough to stop this.

The rules say "no splitting" though. : \

 

[ANTi_]

So what if it was after ADHD forfeited to M2K, acting as if you couldn't go back in bracket and force them to play it out and not split because M2K vs ADHD didn't even happen. If m2k played adhd and sandbagged but lost the set then you couldn't do anything about the split because the set was already played out. And you KNOW adhd vs m2k didn't happen because m2k left the venue as soon as he won against dabuz.

 

[KageMurphy]

Only thing M2K was trying to split was some cheeks, Inui already in there tho.

 

[Keitaro]

@ Anti: Read the part of my long post where it talks about my opinion on forcing M2K to play. Didn't M2K also go missing for quite some time as in he wasn't even in the venue? So I would of had to find him and then force him.

Ok, now also at the time, you allowed it to happen, right? Depending on this answer, I will write my thoughts in WoT mode or not lol.

This is not me picking sides btw, I am going to answer this in the most logical explanation I can which results in my 2c.

Generally speaking, yes. If you read my long post above you can get more info about it.

 

[Laem]

Only thing M2K was trying to split was some cheeks, Inui already in there tho.

oh man

10chars

 

[iRJi]

@ Anti: Read the part of my long post where it talks about my opinion on forcing M2K to play. Didn't M2K also go missing for quite some time as in he wasn't even in the venue? So I would of had to find him and then force him.

Generally speaking, yes. If you read my long post above you can get more info about it.

K. So here is my take on it.

To say that "Rules must be followed" In this case is irrelevant, mainly because if this needed to happen, the other things that happened during the event, that were overruled by the discretion of the TO(s), needed to happen as well. Normally, I would agree with you, since it states that it WILL be punished if not followed, but there are two things that lead me to disagree with the choice that was made.

My first reason being that it was brought up to you before it was done. People think that forfeiting is bracket manipulation, when it really isn't. I have been going to events, and helping hosting events, as well as hosting my own events for a while. This is not just in smash, but attending halo, helping host halo, and various other events. You can look at forfeiting in multiple ways: A strategic way to advance in bracket, due to your opponent being of a higher difficulty, not wanting to play the person, etc. However way you want to look at it, there is one ultimate flaw in the ruling of forfeiting which is: You can't force a player to play against the person if they do not want to. The punishment of forfeiting is inbeded within the forfeit, which is a game loss, and a higher risk of being dropped out of a tournament. \

Now for number two: Remember the incident with Deltacod and Cheese? The rules state and I quote

Pausing may be turned off by request and the request cannot be denied. In the event pause is on and is pressed, whether by accident or on purpose, the result will be a loss of the current stock for the perpetrating player.

Deltacod Paused the match, while Cheese's TV was flickering. Even when Cheese's TV flickered, he did not pause the match. Now, does this mean Deltacod should have loss the match, due to breaking that rule? Technically, Delta should have received a game loss, despite the fact Cheese's TV was cutting off and on. Now, the reason we chose to restart the match, was because of TO's discretion, Again, because of ]TO's discretion. I bold it this time because you do NOT have a line in the rules saying "All end results of a rule are at the TO's discretion"

Now to my point. Your being selective on following your own rules, due to the fact that you do not have this listed in your rules. In all honesty, if you are going to flag them for splitting, then you should have given Delta the game loss for pausing, despite the events that were happening. Now, given the fact that the split was brought to your attention, and you gave them an OK, despite being mad, is still an "OK". Being upset about the split does not warrant a reason to go back, after the fact that you gave them the OK to do it, and flag them for anything. Without the TO's discretion line being stated, you are warranted by your own rules to follow each and every rule be default, or you risk breaking your own rules, which ultimately leads to unfair circumstances. At this point, you can't go back and give delta a game loss, nor can't you give me a game loss for pausing against Pat G. You can't DQ Pierce and flag him from "forfeiting" the tournament (Which he did forfeit btw, which now leads to how that is different from this situation other then the people involved) and now only leads to either follow the rules 100%, or don't. To my knowledge, and from what has been said on here, I don't even feel you should have the right to flag anything as of right now, only because this was brought to your attention before the event took place. At this point the only thing that should be happening is that everything should be scratched, and for your next event, have everything 100% enforced.

I was not going to say anything about this, but its getting out of hand. Every NJ event has some drama that happens, and it's getting old. You hired me for your event not just to help with bracket, but to enforce everything. You are aware that I DQ'd countless people at the event without hesitation, so you know I have no issue following the rules. However, you also hired me for my 2c. This is my 2c on the situation.

 

[ANTi_]

Mussington has spoken <3

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

iTT: AN vehemently defends their friends after they were caught cheating when if it was someone they didn't know they'd probably be cheering with the rest of us. Accept your punishment and moving forward, play the game for it's sake or get a job.

RJ: That's pretty juvenile. It's like speeding. If you're doing 70 miles per hour in a 50 mph zone and there's another guy doing 70 miles per hour a few feet ahead of you, and you're pulled over, it sucks, but that doesn't mean you weren't speeding or breaking the law. He was lucky, good for him.

Like I said: grow up, accept your punishment, learn from it and move on, or stop attending unity events.

 

[DMG]

Only thing M2K was trying to split was some cheeks, Inui already in there tho.

Yo you trying to be smooth but then you top that post off with Pidgeotto? Like YO we going clubbin tonight dawg *icon of Barney*

 

[TheTantalus]

I hate double standards

Athf 11, we headed to the top

Peace out

 

[da K.I.D.]

if this is a red cardable offence anyway and they only got a yellow card because the rule wasnt in place to punish them at the time of the action, and the consequences of the punishment are exactly the same as if they hadnt been punished at all, then i dont see the problem in it.

like kage said, it does hurt the reputation of the scene as a whole, but adhd and anti seem like they are of the IDGAF what people think of me mindset anyway, so it really shouldnt matter to them either way.