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Learn how to earn your wings! A pit video critique thread :)

Cassio

Cassio

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,185
Hello Pits! I have a friend that is new to the tournament scene and would greatly appreciate your advice. E4 was her first tournament and she had some tough competition, but she also got quite a few videos. Shes going to be checking in here but Im helping out since Im not sure if she has a SWF account. Thank you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8uPAA5EQj4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qChQc5tE5IE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC7Ba_5ow_U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DHCCIX-gX4

Also, her and her partner really enjoy doubles, so advice on this doubles match would be especially appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nLb0-Vi4Dc
 
Luckay4Lyphe

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
3,915
Location
College Park, MD
She does have some skill with Pit. I would like to see her get an SWF account and make posts here so we could help her out with whatever she personally wants help with. Judging from the videos, I don't think she has ever really done some research on Pit like looking up frame data, throw follow ups, ATs, etc. She can arrow loop okay, I'll give her that.

What she does well at:

-Her usage of fair as an aerial approach is above average. She spaces with it well and keeps people out well in the air.

What she needs to work on (a lot):

-First off her defensive game, because that is the most important, especially for a Pit main. She doesn't shield enough attacks. She needs to use shield more and wait for better opportunities to strike.

-She rolls and spot dodges a lot to avoid moves. What she really needs to do is just stay mobile, take a few steps back if you see your opponent coming at you or wait in your shield and punish they attacks. The worst case scenario for this is she gets grabbed and if that continues to happen then mix it up. Never roll into your opponents face defensively. Offensively it can catch your opponent off-guard, but worry about that later.

-She does not grab enough. I didn't see one pivot grab at all. And whenever she did grab it was usually after she shielded a move and she threw them immediately. Grabbing is wonderful so do it more often and pummeling is great too because it refreshes the moveset. Pit's standing grab is horrible, but pivot grab is pretty good so she should learn to do it.

-More specifically to Pit, her arrow usage needs work. Aim comes with playing for a while and muscle memory, but you can learn how to use them better by training. Whenever she spammed arrows she just stood there and repeatedly pressed B. Pit needs to be mobile with his arrow usage or often times you will find your opponent in your face ready to punish. Pit's arrow has some cool down lag so using it right in front of someone's face is very risky and not wise to do. You should be running and using arrows at the same time. This being said, she needs to learn how to pivot arrow. It's easier in the air, but very possible to master ground as well. It is simply a b reversal when running away from the opponent and increases Pit's projectile game significantly. Also, implement jumping into the air and curving arrows downward to mix up where the opponent gets hit with arrows. She does seem to change the timing for which she releases an arrow which is good. Arrow looping isn't THAT helpful at her stage. She needs to master the straight and direct arrow before committing to arrow loops.

-The one thing she NEVER did was plank. Pit is one of the best plankers in the game and whenever she was being pressured she would just airdodge and take a bunch of hits and then returning back to the stage to get pummeled some more. She needs to get to know the ledge. Uair planking is great because uair is a disjointed multi-hit move that pokes the shields of people trying to edge guard. And she can stay there for lengthy periods of time even when they aren't close with arrow planking. Tell her to PLANK. Makes Pit a very annoying character to fight.

-She needs to get to know her moveset better. Her favorite moves seem to be fair, jab infinite, dash attack, and fsmash/dsmash. Fair is a great spacing tool, but she staled it to the point where it wouldn't kill at 190. Dair is also a great spacing tool with it's huge hitbox and it can kill most people at 160+ and it is great to use in combination with Pit's jumps. Jab infiinite is only good for grinding shields or against people who don't know how to DI it. The latter usually never happens and people get out of it rather easily so she needs to slow down her jab when she uses it. Holding the A button instead of spamming it sets Pit's jab into a 3 hit combo that punishes spot dodges most of the time and does more damage than a jab infinite on average. She commits to dash attack too much for it can and will be punished on shield as well as on hit at low percents. Use dash attack more as a punish for people who airdodge or use laggy moves on shield and NEVER as an approach. Same goes for angel ring. Except angel ring can sometimes be used as an edgeguarding tool and a shield pressure for people near the edge of the stage. At low percents she needs to go for grab combos. I saw a dthrow to uair once, but she didn't utilize fthrow>stutter step fsmash, fthrow>usmash, fthrow>dash attack>utilt. She usually got punished for usmash because she threw it out and usmash should be used to punish instead of approach. She needs to learn how to jump cancel usmash out of shield for it will help greatly especially with the Peach matchup whenever she dairs your shield right above you. Her ftilt and dtilt usage was fine for the most part. Dsmash too, but fsmash is the main kill move and needs to be kept fresh until the opponent is at killing percent. Tell her to resist using fsmash when the opponent is at 50-130% and once they hit 130% use it and she will start getting earlier kills. Bair is an iffy kill move so I won't tell her how to kill with it reliably just yet, I want to see her improve first.

Hope all that helps, I like sharing my knowledge with the newbs.
 
Blanche Neige

Blanche Neige

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
1
Hello, hello! This is the Rin from those E4U tourney videos that Cassio kindly put up for me.

I really can't thank you enough for all your critique, Luckay. After seeing myself in these videos, I can see that I'm definitely going to need a lot more practice and experience, haha. Especially since I have researched Pit on these boards a...long, long while back or so (well, back before school hit me like a ton of bricks), and if it isn't showing at all...whoo, I better get to work!

Sooo, let's see! You really hit the nail on the head when it comes to my weaknesses: needing more grabs, not rolling/spot-dodging all the time, plank more, repeating moves to the point of predictability, using moves at the wrong time, etc. I'll be sure to work at it, just as you advised!

I think I normally don't spam arrows without moving (unless I have without realizing it D: ), since I know how to do a pivot arrow, but with this being my first tourney, I was...well, super nervous. During the friendlies, people even kept asking me why my Pit kept standing still so much, and I get the feeling that I froze up.

I'm actually surprised to hear that my forward air is above average, since I've always felt like I had trouble in the air -- offensively and defensively. (No wonder I'm such a bad Pit main. XD; ) If you had any extra advice in this specific field, that'd really be great.

Oh, and, I hope this isn't getting ahead of myself...but I 've always wanted to incorporate Wing Refresh into my gameplay. I just could never figure out when was the best time to do it. If I recall correctly, it was best used when chasing after the opponent off-stage or edgehogging, which sounded really helpful. But since I'm not used to using it, I keep hesitating, which usually means I miss a good opportunity.

If you (or any other Pit mains here!) had any other tidbits of knowledge to share, this newb would definitely appreciate it! ♥

And, maybe, just maybe...if it isn't too inconvenient and you have the time, we could play via wi-fi for some direct coaching? (Though, if fighting a Pit as poor as mines really isn't worth your time, I'd totally understand, haha.)
 
HariKyuubi

HariKyuubi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
334
Location
Ohio/NEOH
Welcome to the family, Rin.

I'm sorry I don't have much good advice to give, but I'm kind of new, much like you are. I would love to play some Wi-Fi with you, though. I think we think a lot alike. Perhaps we would be able to help each other. (I am in Ohio, though, so hopefully the lag is not too bad.)
 
U

Unsound_Shinobi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88
Location
New Mexico
BOrookie said:
Just a tip: When grabbing onto a ledge, if you WoI you can grab on from a slightly farther distance, I noticed that you were mainly just using your jumps to get to the ledge. And pretty much what luckay said about the rolling, if you want to get near you're opponent quickly, I find that firing an arrow, dashing, firing an arrow, dashing, etc. will get you close fairly safely most of the time. Oh, and if you would like to play some WiFi matches, I can record then and put them up for you or send you the files if you wish.
Click to expand...
I would love to play WiFi against you, I know I definitely need a lot of work, but it's hard finding out what I need to work on from watching my own replays and I'm still waiting on my AV cable recording software so it would be amazing if you could get the recordings too :) I normally play the same person every day, against either DK or Ness so I'm afraid I'm developing bad habits to counter him, and I'm sure there are lot's of other things as well. I'll PM you for info on the WiFi?
 
U

Unsound_Shinobi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88
Location
New Mexico
HariKyuubi said:
Shinobi: Like they said with the CPUs, but a couple general rules apply that come to mind. You want to use arrows a lot, yes, but not so close to the opponent that a human would be able to punish you. Try angling them also so they're not reflected back at you. Use dash attack very sparingly. Lastly, nair-ing as you fall causes a bunch of landing lag. Try a rising nair instead. Hope that helps~ Though, even more important than these small details is just getting the basics of the game down. :3

Ya might know some of these things already though. :p I can't tell.
Click to expand...
Okay, I've noticed some landing lag with the nair sometimes, but others it seems to auto cancel into uptilts perfectly, I didn't think about that being caused between rising/falling lags.

As my opponent gets close I tend to arrow then shield grab and it generally works, but I have a bad habit of slipping to b instead of a when I go for a jab and arrowing instead. Thank you very much for you're advice, I'll definitely practice the timing for short hopped rising nair until I can do it consistently accurate.
 
Luckay4Lyphe

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
3,915
Location
College Park, MD
You use up Pits mid air jumps too carelessly. He only has 3 with his prepubescent wings. You aren't using the fthrow cg either, learn it and abuse it against characters like donkey kong because it's free percent from 0.

You over use forward smash. It's the main kill move for Pit and if you use it too much you won't kill anyone until they are at 200%. You over use roll. I didn't even notice you running or walking. It seems like you roll to move when instead you should walk/run to move and use DODGE roll when you want to DODGE something. If you carelessly roll you will roll into somebody's move and then die. Same with carelessly spotdodging.

You also carelessly use arrows. They are great when you hit, but suck when they are shielded up close. Be more mobile when you use arrows. Be sure to maintain a safe distance before you even think about arrowing.

To start you off:

Learn the basics:
-fthrow chaingrab and fthrow followups
-Restrain from using forward smash so much and use more jab combo and down tilt
-Walk and run when your opponent is no where near you, only roll when you are in immediate danger and even then opt more to stay in your shield because the worst someone can do to your shield is grab you.
 
U

Unsound_Shinobi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88
Location
New Mexico
Luckay4Lyphe said:
You use up Pits mid air jumps too carelessly. He only has 3 with his prepubescent wings. You aren't using the fthrow cg either, learn it and abuse it against characters like donkey kong because it's free percent from 0.

You over use forward smash. It's the main kill move for Pit and if you use it too much you won't kill anyone until they are at 200%. You over use roll. I didn't even notice you running or walking. It seems like you roll to move when instead you should walk/run to move and use DODGE roll when you want to DODGE something. If you carelessly roll you will roll into somebody's move and then die. Same with carelessly spotdodging.

You also carelessly use arrows. They are great when you hit, but suck when they are shielded up close. Be more mobile when you use arrows. Be sure to maintain a safe distance before you even think about arrowing.

To start you off:

Learn the basics:
-fthrow chaingrab and fthrow followups
-Restrain from using forward smash so much and use more jab combo and down tilt
-Walk and run when your opponent is no where near you, only roll when you are in immediate danger and even then opt more to stay in your shield because the worst someone can do to your shield is grab you.
Click to expand...
So I should find a balance between my Pit and Sonic basically? With Sonic the only time I ever roll is if there is an attack coming my way and for some reason or another I can't use jab 1 to stop it.

For the fthrow chaingrab, I can never get the DACG to work, I always do an attack, I didn't think about it being important enough to practice dedicatedly, but having that extra damage without fsmashing would be nice, it just seems like against Dude fsmash and nair are the only things that hit other than arrows.

Also, the rolling I think is a bad habit from always being killed with back throws from Ness and Mario and like 100% from the edge.

I'll definitely practice this and try to get more videos up late next week to see if there's any improvement by then.
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
he's right, if you at least want damage you can just do dash grabs. however DACG does get more damage in the end. i would just get the dash grab down now since the timing is more forgiving than the DACG but definately learn it sooner than later
 
U

Unsound_Shinobi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88
Location
New Mexico
BOrookie said:
Lol, the LC match I think was actually me doing Pit over WiFi. Not a pretty sight.
Click to expand...
Lol I didn't even realize I uploaded the wrong video, sorry about that, if it makes you feel any better the one that was supposed to be there was worse, I actually got 3 stocked lol, I'll see if I can still find the other one, I think it was over written since I accidentally saved them as the same name.

Also, @Maharba and Luckay, sounds good thanks, I can do the dash grab but when I practice it in training it usually just results in him bouncing off the ground, but that's probably because it's not staled at all in training I think. Thank you guys very much for your input.
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
hey guys, for all the vids in here that are tournament and you feel are played well, submit them and what character they are against to the youtube request thread and ill organize it. i can't watch the vids and edit them in myself because my flash player is acting up and being gay.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Same! I'll look at yours once i'm done moving out of my dorm

You should also get a match recorded from that day where you lost so we have something to compare it to~
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
alright kuro, here we go.

game1 vs kyon

you need to get off the ledge that early into his stock and in the game in general. me and illmatic were discussing the MU after i played him last time. you need to be dair camping him on the platforms, if you go off the ledge, scrooge fast and get back onstage on the other side either by jumping and dairing back onto the platforms or nair cancel>roll. space him with fair bro, it works. don't throw out fsmash so much. i know it looks like i do but half the time it's a mis input so don't take how i play the matches in game and compare them to how i tried to play them. another thing, if he is floating inside of you and your shield is up, UP SMASH OOS HIS ***. tbh you should be offensively air camping him from up and to the sides.

later on you are doing a superb job of fighting him on such a linear basis, getting away with a lot of ground movement that peach should have been controlling. good job there.
but as soon as i hit play again he respawns and you're on the ledge wasting more grabs with 2.5 mins on the clock when if you wanted to be safe you should have taken to the skies..... however you won so good job but tbh he could have timed you out at that point and won because of you're ledge grabs.

game 1 vs penguin

so far you aren't abusing him when you got him offstage twice nor are you punish with things like dtilt or u throws but instead i saw you jab him and recover unscathed twice. gotta give him the **** when he's offstage dude, chase his *** down fast. at 1:30 you choose to uair a nade and mortar and get *****. you should have just used wings to push the nade back at his *** and not get mortar ****ed.
at 1:44 u try to grab and insta throw or invinca-nade him. you're pit, WOI is a key factor to this MU bro, it's effects (yes multiple effects) on nades make them near useless as an edge guard or camp tool. they should only get you when he tanks the hit and you both get hit.

at 3:10 when he is bouncing the nades like that, spam WOI regrab and it will stop them then launch them back at him. adjust where you start WOI by the ledge to push/launch it different distances.

in the 3:30s everytime he stopped the nade on the platform you could have used wings and not gone to the ledge and held your ground.

kuro your planking is so old fashioned.... i mean it works but ima teach you how to plank better, well more efficiently would be a better way to put it, sometime.

you died at 5:11 for not using WOI

that final kill made me wet

i don't know the other MUs well enough to critique brah. i only lose to gnes, i still don't know that MU at all
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
My reasoning for playing like that vs kyon game 1 was the fact that he secured an early lead. Any form of me trying keep an onstage presence even in the form of camping(in it's various forms) would of led to terrible trades since NONE of them would of been in my favor considering the large gap in %. That's why you will notice once kyon hits around 90-100% like me i start going in.

Other than that thanks for the advice.

@Planking thing

Aiiiiight
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
i stopped halfway through because that diddy is terrible compared to what i have to deal with. keith (gnes) would have just read the reflectors and monkey flipped and had it been the mirror he would do the flip grab and had it been AR he would have kicked through it. also that guy doesn't know how space pit with his fair and dtilt either. he does not play this MU to the best i've seen and experianced against gnes, so has esca (who is the best pit imo, just inactive, will be at whobo4 tho).
 
Maharba the Mystic

Maharba the Mystic

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
4,403
Location
Houston, Texas
oops double post


oh well, kuro i just realized i have a **** ton of rob experiance and im gonna sit down and critique you're rob video right now


.15- okay so at the very beginning good job reading the airdodge and getting fsmash.

.27- dude wtfbbqsaucewafflehackz?!

.35- when he lands like this is the perfect time to nair or infinite jab or AR because these all hit at some point before his buffered broken spot dodge which buffers his fast *** dsmash which is what they still use to this day. if you think you're timing is good enough and you want the 16% try timing a perfect utilt as well, that damage and knockback set up is amazing for us with rising uairs and nairs and if you read and air dodge fair or double jump dair, if they go behind you trade bair for his fair and kill his *** if he was at kill percent.

.40- so all pit's forget that we have a jump cancelled item toss that = diddy kongs glide toss (and we can dribble in this form with a pivot jab after each JCIT down throw) you could have done one forwards and gotten a grab or fsmash or fair or something. don't always use glide toss, that's why one of my 4 triggers is set to jump (as well as a better way to jump attacks oos). classic pro baby

1.07- don't forget his bair's hitbox. use another jump next time. so far you're playing superb, why am i critiquing this? im just super nitpicking options for you but it's not like you really choose bad options, they are solid just not the absolute most guaranteed but if it works it works dude.

1.47 and for a while- you should be camping him when he's at ridiculous kill percent and your not. just start playing super safe and force him to approach even though an fthrow or mis-DI'd bthrow will definitely kill them. they will try to camp but we outcamp him pretty good and he will slowly try to get in and fail because he is scared because even uair can kill him now, dsmash, dash attack, and then the other fast actual kill moves. just make him approach super slowly and thus your burning time onstage without planking and just out shooting/reflecting him from the distance which you should always because our reflectors are faster/better and our combination of arrow speed greater than gear and charged lazers and super charged lazer and mirror/AR being faster/easy from a distance to reflect his gear and all 3 lazer stages.

2.00- you better put in mad work on him now and then super camp him on your next stock or ima b pissed

oh i see you wanna be a rouge and do it backwards. i dig

3.02- good read with the pivot grab, he was spammin

3.17- you should have died, you got lucky mang. keep camping

3.39- when you landed you should have been buffering AR, it covers all options at that point because it either clanks/beats moves and eats his shield and reflects his lazer and it out before his grab

3.41- rob is getting momentum. super safe no mess up at all plank him for a bit and just cancel the momentum. wait it out a bit, something will happen that lets you get back on especially if you can take a gyro.

3.54- you are dead due to not recognizing he had the momentum. one of pit's greatest aspects is to demoralize momentum of the other player with planking.

while edgeguarding rob, if you see he is using rocket hover or getting hit out of rocket and using it and grabbing the edge, know he will try to get onstage and stay there for 2 seconds to get his fuel back. punish there need to get off the ledge and get fuel when they are planking.

quit approachingly angrily and getting your *** kicked and slow the pace down and out camp him and quit rushing in like a dumb ***. pull back dude

i don't know what to say about how this match ended -.-






edit: now someone plz critique my vids :(
 
Luckay4Lyphe

Luckay4Lyphe

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
3,915
Location
College Park, MD
I don't like giving out critique to non-quality vids -.-

You did pretty well game 1 vs Trela, just had minor mistakes that Trela, being Trela, capitalized on and killed you for it.

Second game you threw out a lot of attacks as a means to fend off his approaches, but he just spaced well and you got punished a bunch so don't do that. Either go in or get to safety.

Wasn't really paying attention game 3, but if you need someone to upload vids instead of setting a recorder right in front of your TV you can send them to me and I can use my capture card.
 
Tesh

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
I already offered to record for him, but oh well.

As boring as Brawl is to watch, you don't wanna give people an extra reason to just exit the video while watching.
 
Kuro~

Kuro~

Nitoryu Kuro
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
6,040
Location
Apopka Florida
Lol ya das true. I only record the **** with my camcorder cuz i generally no longer ask for critique cuz i do it by myself. Can't wait to have recording setup though. Gonna get one soon.
 
Tesh

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Move the replays onto your SD card (there is an option in the vault to copy or move replays). Put the SD card in your computer and look for the "rp" folder. There should be a .bin file for each replay named as a date code that looks like "rp_110618_1901.bin" . It doesn't really matter what its named though. Just zip those files up and send them to someone or upload them to mediafire.
 
Tesh

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Easiest way is to put ONLY the ones you want recorded on your SD card so its as simple as just zipping up all of it. But the replay name is a date/time code. The replay name I listed earlier "rp_110618_1901.bin" is 2011 (11) June (06) 18th (18) _ 7:01PM (1901). Although I think moving them can change this.... iono.
 
Zync

Zync

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Messages
489
Location
Costa Rica
Hello pit boards, to be fair, I never use pit for serious gameplay, but I like him overall as a character, last time at a smashfest I used pit once against a top player from my country.... and won lol, so I dont think my pit is sooo bad and I might actually give it a chance and learn how to use him properly. So can anyone see this video and tell me if I have a chance or if it aint worth it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=823TGfR0k28

It loooks horrible since we recorded by camara, that and spanish vocab might be annoying for some so Ill appreciate anyone who watches :)
 
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