Learn the right way to use your controller

[Wind Owl]

Wait, can I DI wrong if I use up to JC? I thought if you DI'd the same way you were hit, nothing happened? And then if they hit me horizontally, I DI the right way. It doesn't matter since I just flick the stick up very quickly and don't keep it up. It's good for making sure I can do whatever I need to with the stick if I whiff.

Exactly; DI up vs. Fox's Usmash (for example) = you go straight up = you die

 

[Corigames]

Though I've never said it before, you've been an inspirational poster to me since I joined.
you seem to know your stuff.

;_;

I inspire people.

God **** you smashboards. Some days I rage. Other days I BAAAWWWWWW.

Edit:
Wait... "you've been an inspirational poster"

So...

...is this all I am to you ;_;

 

[Pink Reaper]

I lol'd.

Also, everyone needs to learn not to be nice to Coreygames, it confuses him. When you speak to him do it in harsh insults with some snide sarcasm. This is easier for him to understand.

<3

 

[Corigames]

Yeah, I can't handle foreign languages like love and stuff.

/thread_hijack

 

[KirbyKaze]

for example. suppose i say coreygames is a moron and a ***got.

what he hears is that he's intelligent and a productive member of society.

<3 coreygames

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

How do you do JC shines by using up on the control stick? That means you have to go up and all the way back down on the stick when you could just hold down on the stick and hit Y then B quickly. I don't see how it's faster your way.

I use up to do JC shines too. It's just easier for me to go up then down than to slide my hand over A to Y and be uncomfortable. And it's fast.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Ha this makes me glad I've always used the Y button.
It should be noted that it is possible to full shield without pressing down the digital part of the button, so if you get used to shielding like that (I have) WDing out of shield won't be a problem. (I only use the L button, and WDing out of the shield is no problem for me)
BUT you can't WD out of a POWERSHIELD really fast when you only use one trigger.... So yhea using both is better. (But I can't touch the R button b/c of how I hold the controller, my hands are to big for this game lol >.>)

Also it should be noted that using the c-stick all the time can slow you down unless you're using claw or the control stick to jump.
Which brings me to my next point: Almost everyone disagrees with me on this, but IMO people should use the control stick to jump more. Control stick to jump+c-stick for arial=Arial as soon out of the jump as you want. You can hold your thmb over the c-stick as you are jumping.
People say that you won't be able to go as far if you jump with control stick, but that is only true for full jumps and even then the difference is very small (if you do it right).
To do it "right", you press up/right or up/left (depending on which direction you're jumping in) and then you move it back to full right/left. If you did this fast enough you'll do a SH with the same amount of distance as a SH with X/Y. If you do the same movement slightly slower you'll do a fulljump with almost the same distance as a fulljump with X/Y (the difference is VERY small, with most chars you can't even see the differnce).
following DI with Uthrow Uair with fox becomes SO much easier this way.

just my 2 cents

 

[NJzFinest]

I don't think wavedashing out of your shield with L + R is that important. I've seen that most players just use one or the other for everything.

 

[Eggm]

Are there any drawbacks to using up on the control stick to jc grabs? I like doing that because it feels natural and I don't use the control stick to jump at all, so whenever I hit up my muscle memory knows to press Z.

There is no disadvantage to this I know alot of people who do it this way and jc grab more consistently than me.

 

[JFox]

Eggm, who uses up, just out of curiousity?

 

[Proverbs]

Question: Is it really that important to use Y to jump if you don't and never plan to play a space animal professionally? I main Marth and honestly, I don't think there are ANY instances that I need to get to the B button faster after hitting X. In fact, I think it'd be much harder for me to do c-stick'd SHDFs if I needed to move my thumb all the way from Y to the c-stick.

I think using Y or X is dependent on your character. I'm not going to be picking up Fox anytime soon, so I think I'm pretty good without using Y. And plus, using Y makes it harder to do SHDFs to the right if I'm going to use Z and then the c-stick.

In my opinion, Y seems useful only to those using B a whole lot, which is not a characteristic of Marth players.

Just a thought, probably already mentioned.

 

[JFox]

Proverbs, this is how to play as fast as possible. If you don't feel that your character requires fast play, then don't worry about it.

However, remember that you are still pretty new. You're not gonna play marth forever. Having secondaries is a very important part of todays game. Don't limit yourself by not having tech skill. Especially considering how good techy characters like fox and falco are.

 

[Fenrir]

Using X to jump, now that I think about it, is probably one of the main reasons I never was able to get Fox up to the level of most people. I don't know if I'll be able to switch since X is so ingrained into my playstyle now. Fortunately my main (Mewtwo) doesn't really demand fast movement from jump to B, but rather from jump to A, which the X button is good at doing.

I'll have to try out using R for sheild and L for wavedashing. One thing that will definitely improve my game is having better control over wavedashing from sheilds.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Thanks for the inspiration and motivation, JFox. I was thinking about switching my X to my Y and using both my shoulders.

 

[Smilez]

Very insightful thread.

 

[Rat]

Heh... with the 'double claw' i meant like using your index finger to hold the control stick arcade style.

I remember seeing a few players do it, and someone explained that it was like turning tap jump off.


Has anyone messed around with other ways of holding a controller? I've trying like sitting it on your knee and having the right hand over the buttons arcade style (thumb for c-stick, first finger for A/B and middle finger for Jump. Z kind of got thrown out the window.)

 

[JFox]

LOL, I tried the claw method, and I'm a completely dysfunctional smash player. My mind gets sooo confused having two fingers on one side of the controller pressing buttons. I'll work on it a bit more, but i dont think it will ever happen for me.

 

[Pandii]

When using Y to jump, does one rest his/her finger on the Y button and slide downwards to hit either a or b?
Or are you supposed to tap it, lift your finger and move on to the next desired button? I suppose I'm simply asking about the physical movement behind using Y to jump.

I know one of my bad habits is that in order to jump, I use the X button...and I slide my finger off X... to the right, away from the controller itself, loop my finger around and hit whatever I need to hit. It would definately have been better if I hadn't learned to short hop by sliding off x like I did.

Another question I suppose... how long does it take to re-establish muscle memory? I know I've been trying to change shield buttons for a while but it requires active brain input xD

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

^^I do it differently depending on what I'm doing, sometimes I lift it, sometimes I slide, sometimes I "lazy thumb" (when I fulljump arials, mostly. and sometimes when I fulljump falcon punch :D)

 

[ArcNatural]

I wished I used Y.

The main reason I don't is because when I attempt to shffl with A I normally do it waaaaaay too fast. Thus I shffl without an aerial because I hit A before I even leave the ground. This is simply because of the muscle memory required to go from X to A or B.

Since I'm so used to sliding from X to A or B any suggestions for short hopping with Y? Sliding is way to fast for me, should I just work on tapping?

I like Y for C-stick aerials as well, it's much easier to hit Left and Right in that position.

Maybe I'll start using Y for good, since it's only muscle memory and would take a week or two at most.

 

[Samochan]

I mostly use a for aerial attacks since I play peach, but c-stick with my palm for retreating aerials and fair since I'm not that quick on my fingers. Every quick smash is done with c-stick, but charged ones with a button. I also never use L button at all, every action I do is with R. It needed a bit more effort to learn how to shieldwavedash but it was well worth it. :3 I just shield, release some pressure on it for a tiny moment and then push it down all the way so it clicks again and perform wavedash. I never use c-stick for rolls though unless it's done accidentally since my normal roll pressing is faster than if I were to try and use c-stick to buffer rolls and sidesteps.

 

[ZeroFox]

Nice thread. I already pretty much do exactly what you've mentioned in the post though =)

 

[ArcNatural]

I mostly use a for aerial attacks since I play peach, but c-stick with my palm for retreating aerials and fair since I'm not that quick on my fingers. Every quick smash is done with c-stick, but charged ones with a button. I also never use L button at all, every action I do is with R. It needed a bit more effort to learn how to shieldwavedash but it was well worth it. :3 I just shield, release some pressure on it for a tiny moment and then push it down all the way so it clicks again and perform wavedash. I never use c-stick for rolls though unless it's done accidentally since my normal roll pressing is faster than if I were to try and use c-stick to buffer rolls and sidesteps.

I find that interesting, it's probably because you float cancel. But technically as long as you L-cancel correctly you can just hold the shield button and the C-stick to buffer the roll. Since you don't even need to tap the shield button twice it should be faster, especially if your holding a direction while you aerial.

But float canceling probably makes this a moot point. But if your caught in shield rolling with C-stick is much better as it helps you avoid moving your shield and getting shield stabbed when you roll.

I need some tips on adjusting from X to Y. The sliding method is just... bad for me. I have to basically slide my thumb left off Y then to the buttons to even create a long enough delay for Fox's shorthops to get aerials out.

 

[JonaDiaper]

rightys normally use R for wavedashing, L canceling and shielding and things right?

i use L for everything. my R trigger is untouched since i got the controller.

i think using Y only goes for characters that need crazy button pushing speed...

fox and falco

 

[JFox]

Arcnatural- remove your X button, and than learn to tap Y to short hop.

 

[BrawlLover]

Exactly; DI up vs. Fox's Usmash (for example) = you go straight up = you die

Wind Owl is tha man and he knows how to use the controller the RIGHT WAY!x3

 

[Vulcan55]

I use X to jump because I used to play a lot of arcade games, and I like all my buttons laid out in a row.
I don't play Fox either (A little bit of Falco) and it really isn't inhibiting my play.
I've tried using Y, but I'd find myself wanting to press X, and I wouldn't want to press X, so then I'd have to think about using Y, where I could have used less time by pressing X without thinking.

 

[ArcNatural]

Arcnatural- remove your X button, and than learn to tap Y to short hop.

This actually sounds like a good idea. I have the screwdriver!

And Jona I'm left-handed and do R for wavedashing L for everything else. I was screwed up when I started though. I used to L-cancel with L and Shield,tech,wavedash with R. I forced myself to learn shielding,teching with L so I could Wavedash out of shield better with R.

EDIT:
I'm actually one of those players that doesn't really need to switch, but I just want to. I have been playing for 2 years, can do pretty much everything I want to do (multishine, shffl, pillar, etc.) I just feel like when I play with Y I actually have to wait for the game before I can hit buttons, where with X I just seem to be hitting stuff as fast as I possibly can. Which means I'm probably not doing some of the moves as fast as possible (This is coming from someone who can with Sheik fulljump fair a standing Fox).

 

[Jboy313]

good advice..xD

 

[BrawlLover]

yeah there's nothing wrong with removing a button from the controller

 

[Shai Hulud]

Not really sure what the double claw is, but I claw. My pointer finger is always on Y and then my thumb defaults to C-stick, but also presses B and A.

Advantages:

• SHing becomes easier b/c fingers have more control than thumbs.
• It gives you VERY precise aerial control. This makes Marth's sh double fair easier, and shield stabbing easier. With CF I can shield stab the head of a normal sized character almost 100% of the time by jumping and immediately kneeing.
• It increases your tech skill in every area. I got a friend to claw, and he was able to do 7 multishines after I told him the description. He had never multishined or waveshined before, but he knew how to WD. It will also make SHDL much easier.

Disadvantages:

• Somewhat painful. It didn't stop hurting until after about a month of using it.
• Makes hitting the R trigger a little awkard. This means you will probably need to use L to powershield.
• I have to change my grip to JC grab. This feels the most natural way to do it, and doesn't bother me, but changing your grip is a disadvantage.

I started clawing, because I have terrible tech skill, and now I find most techs pretty easy (except moonwalking).

I claw but use my ring finger on R, middle finger on Z. This avoids the disadvantages you listed. I also wavedash, shield, and tech with R, but I don't find it awkward at all.

I've put a lot of thought into controller grip and am confident that this particular method of clawing is the best possible controller grip. I do get some pain in my hands if I've been playing for several hours but I think it's just because I play a technical Fox and not because I claw. Also I get pain in both hands and my left hand grip is normal...although the left-hand pain is more in the wrist and the right-hand is more in the fingers.

I'm going to have arthritis by the time I'm 25.

Double clawing is clawing with both hands. It's pointless unless you jump with the control stick...but if you're right hand clawing I don't know why you would want to jump with the control stick. I don't really understand the point of double clawing.

 

[BrawlLover]

claw helps a lot and it is easier to space when clawing as well for aerials

 

[JFox]

Oh, is double clawing when you claw with the right, and then use two fingers (like on a joystick) for the control stick? I know Colbol plays with the double claw. Most people that use the left hand like that don't actually jump with up, its just how the prefer to hold the controller.

 

[CHUK]

I press y-z for jc grab but for up smashes I use up on joystich, **** the claw. I get an A+ on your reccomendation of controller use.

 

[TheGeneral]

I've been using the "claw" for about a year now. I didn't realize it had a name when I first started using it, though, I was just thinking about the fastest/easiest way to sh my aerials and still have control over them.

I started out like an above poster, exclusively using x for my jump because I was trying to emulate an arcade stick layout, but over time my grip has morphed and now I use y more for whatever reason. It certainly is worth learning if you like to improve your tech skill. I haven't been practicing much recently but I used to be able to waveshine pretty consistently (considering fox isn't my main) and I could do Peach's (pillar) pretty much on command.

I've found recently though that I must modify my grip for certain characters. I usually play Peach and Fox and am trying to learn Marth and all three have different jump speeds, so I use x to jump with say Marth (so I can do double-fairs and such) and y with Peach and Fox (to do shdls or fcs). This is the best I can do atm because I can't find a happy medium style where I can play multiple characters with the same button layout. Maybe someone else with more experience has some suggestions?

 

[strangely mundane]

Arcnatural- remove your X button, and than learn to tap Y to short hop.

Lol this happened to my friend the x button on his controller broke so he learned to use y.

 

[Kami-V]

While I don't agree with all of the c-stick advice, I like everything in this post. Thankfully I already use my controller this way.

 

[BrawlLover]

hbk is the strangest i've seen, so hood