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Learning from Level 9 Computers! (Advanced Airdodge Techniques)

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
We just got Brawl and we have a steep learning curve ahead of us. While many are still starting to figure out that Brawl isn't Melee 2.0, there is one group that already knows this: Level 9 computers. The computers do things in Melee that we consider very basic techniques by now, but since Brawl is giving us new basic techniques to work with, we can learn a lot from level 9s.

Here is a link to videos made by a guy who did a tournament of level 9s without items: http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/5083910
Yes, its Nicovideo, so unforutately only those with a Nicovideo account can view it. Maybe some kind Nico-watching soul can share login info and/or upload the videos to Youtube.

Things you can learn from level 9s: Basic techniques, unique (or "intended") applications of some "useless"/unusual attacks, and different playstyles for characters.

Things I've learned from watching a single video (its this one: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2320431 ):

1. Remember someone saying that airdodging cancels momentum in the air, and thus reduces knockback? Remember how we all thought the video was proven fake when RyokoYakasa discovered the diminishing knockback on attacks? Well, watch the computers. EVERY TIME THEY ARE HIT they airdodge to cancel momentum and reduce knockback. So yes, Airdodge Momentum Cancel is not only IN Brawl, but a very useful technique to learn.

2. The comptuers use airdodges constantly. The new airdodge mechanics allow them to use airdodges as aerial approaches, and even (correct me if I'm mistaken) using airdodging to shift their momentum from one direction to the other at a sharper turn than just jumping backwards can do.

3. Some potential usages of Falco's reflector.



So far while watching another video (found here: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2353474 ):

1. At around 1:10 DK jumped while doing an attack so the attack came out at the apex of his jump. In Melee we are used to jumping, then after hitting the apex of the jump we'd attack. But, obviously, Brawl works a little differently. Its minor, but noteworthy IMO.

2. The Ice Climber's Squall has more offensive potential than in Melee.

3. The computer sucks balls with Ike.

4. The computer sucks balls harder with Sonic.

- I'm sure everyone here has seen Ganondorf combo his forward B into his jab, but apparently the computer took that one step further by comboing his forward B into his Ftilt, which has pretty good knockback. That'll probably be important for Gdorf in the future.

- I remember someone said that smash DI (or whatever you call using a forward smash at different angles) was out, but it definitely isn't. Just recently, I've seen Gdorf and ROB use SmashDI, among many others I've seen before.

- ROB can cancel his down B in the air with an airdodge (and I'm pretty sure it stored the charge). Maybe not big news for anyone else, but I think its interesting.



When I have more time, I'll watch more videos and share anything new I discover. I'll also add anything else important that you guys notice from the videos to the first post here.
 

wakka444

Smash Ace
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Mar 15, 2007
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Lol you really are brilliant lol thinking outside the box unlike most every1 else good stuff, hoping for more soon ^^
 

Firestorm88

Smash Lord
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Jun 4, 2005
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So Level 9's are smarter this time around, I take it?
No, the players are just stupider. They'd rather figure out how to name some dumb new technique with no practical use than study basic techniques that can lead to something useful.

Good find SamuraiPanda. I'm going to look through that video now.
 

MasterCheeze

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Level 9 computers are going to take over the tournaments I'm afraid. They know everything about the game. They're part of it, so yeah; they can just totally hack into Brawl and mess you up.
 

Zek

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
784
Alright, so the AI does it all the time. We still don't know whether or not it's effective. How come nobody has actually tested it again since last time? Just do the Ike F-Smash test, but restart the game each time.
 

Ledger_Damayn

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Joined
Feb 4, 2008
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881
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
I'm personally in favor of naming techniques... it's hard to refer to them as their technical names all the time.

Air Dodge Momentum Cancel doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

That particular technique looks like it will be an integral part of the game. Same thing with approaches based around air dodges. It's becoming clearer that this game is indeed in no way Melee 2.0
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Didn't Sakurai say that air dodging doesn't affect your momentum at all? When I play Brawl I always airdodge to try and slow my momentum but it never had a visible amount of slowing.
 

Fanewgie

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Jun 9, 2006
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I didn't sift entirely through the thread, and I also didn't play against level 9s during my brief run with the game, but I noticed that even at level 5, AI is ridiculously dangerous with Luigi. They actually know how to recover with him now, and know how to land his uppercut.

I'm curious if a level 9 Jigglypuff knows how to land Rest yet.
 

FenrirIII

Smash Cadet
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Feb 3, 2008
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That's some good stuff. I especially liked Falco's Reflector after seeing it, y'know, get used. None of the Falco users here ever show it off in action, so it was nice to see what it can do, at least for edgeguarding.

I also liked seeing some of the characters used in action just in general. The Ness vs. Mario match was great; Mario's Fireballs are a good edgeguard against Ness and Lucas I can assume.
Also I noticed that the CPU rarely ever runs, and often chooses to jump instead to cover distance. Is this a nod to trying to avoid tripping?
 

Lingy

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Oct 23, 2006
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Wow, the tourney one, the very first battle (PT vs Ganon) that was the first time where I saw someone die because their up+B wasn't long enough to grab the ledge. (Since people were always blown out of the boundary, seeing as how they shrunk it.)
 

Devastlian

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1. At around 1:10 DK jumped while doing an attack so the attack came out at the apex of his jump. In Melee we are used to jumping, then after hitting the apex of the jump we'd attack. But, obviously, Brawl works a little differently. Its minor, but noteworthy IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ldQmo3JBR0

I think Ganondorf's a pretty cool guy, eh hops like a bunny and doesn't afraid of anything.
 

Fanewgie

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I've seen a video in which Falco's up-B didn't go high enough.
That's just because Falco's up special got nerfed (which seems really backwards. He's a friggin' bird, yet they nerf his triple jump and don't give him more double jumps or even gliding, bwuh?). I didn't like playing as him at all when I played, but I found his forward special rocks for recovery, as it's faster and goes further than Fox's.
 

SamuraiPanda

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I've added a few more things. Its rather funny watching computers, because they do so many advanced things... but at the same time they suck really bad.
 

Homelessvagrant

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very good read Samurai Panda. It made me think of one particular character, Yoshi. In Gimpy's review he said yoshi counldn't cancel his second jump. I wonder if he might be able to cancel or affect the distance rate of his second jump with a air dodge. Does anyone have any info on this?
 

fazares

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Jan 31, 2008
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i play in ffa against level 9 cpu since ssbm...this time theyr way harder to beat...they use the items and the fs very wisely....i struggle to win unlike in ssbm where it wasnt that hard....:-/
 

Zankoku

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1. At around 1:10 DK jumped while doing an attack so the attack came out at the apex of his jump. In Melee we are used to jumping, then after hitting the apex of the jump we'd attack. But, obviously, Brawl works a little differently. Its minor, but noteworthy IMO.
Actually, that's nothing new. DK's fair, Ganon's fair, Peach's fair, Doc's fair.... they're all primed the moment you jump so that it can come out as you're approaching. DK's fair in particular is actually too slow to even SHFFL, you'd have to avoid fastfalling it.

The air-dodges to cancel momentum from attacks is interesting, though. Didn't realize there was actually something good from "air-teching."
 

Aerozeke

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I don't care who said they were still "weak" this time around... after watching those videos (samuraipanda's post, nicovideo), I think they've improved by quite a bit.
 

GreenKirby

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No, the players are just stupider. They'd rather figure out how to name some dumb new technique with no practical use than study basic techniques that can lead to something useful.

Good find SamuraiPanda. I'm going to look through that video now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

LOL :laugh:

ANyway, this is a good find. And it is better than finding advanced techs without looking at the basics.

Crawl before you walk, not the other way around.
 

Zek

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
784
Come on guys, can't anyone test the Dodge DI instead of just watching computers? It's easy even if you're by yourself, just use a slow move like Ganondorf's U-Tilt and switch controllers to DI the hit.
 

Agosta44

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Dec 11, 2007
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Well, It's about time people made lvl 9 battles. I've been asking and telling people to do this since day 1. Took long enough : \
 
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