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Ledge hopped fair to...bomb :).

Hylian

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So, I was playing against my friends marth a while ago and I ledgehopped a fair. I ment to hit up B but somehow I ended up hitting down b...probably because I was fast falling the fair >_>.

Anyways.


So what happens? A bomb comes out...and explodes immediately...with virtually no lag :). I'm pretty sure you can't be shieldgrabbed out of it, and you can lay two bombs on their shield then come in with a dair.


By doing this you have accomplished several things.

1. The fair weakened your opponents shield.

2. When you bomb, your opponent with most likely drop their shield out of suprise or they may just sit in it. If they do sit in it, they won't have much of a shield left after the bomb.

3. You can possibly lay two bombs on their shield before going too high.


4. This part is good and bad. You are in a position to come in with a dair into smash on the back of their shield, which will probably break it, so your opponent is going to do something about it. Depending on the character they may quickly jump out of their shield with an attack and catch you. If they do this though you can sex kick and usually trade hits, or the sex kick will scare them into rolling or dodging. If they roll you can punish, and if they dodge you can punish.


Try this out :). Lots of people Fair to Up B because of the invincibility frames and the fact that you cannot be shield grabbed after it. But it leaves you open if your opponent stays in their shield. This fair to bomb trick takes away that vulnerability as well as pressuring the opponents shield. It allows you to go from a defensive position, to an offensive one. It can give you stage position advantage as well.


With all this being said, please understand that all your opponent needs to do to counter this...is move away from the edge by dashing or wavedashing. So make sure you are actually going to hit their shield with your fair. Otherwise you will probably eat a fsmash, and should return to the stage from the ledge differently.

I have never seen any other samus do this before, so I thought a new topic would be good :).

Discuss.
 

ph00tbag

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Of course, if you miss, you can always retreat into a morph ball ledge grab. Your opponent will have trouble attacking from the side because of the bomb, and you're small enough that a lot of precision is needed to attack from above, and then you're grabbing the ledge with invincibility frames.

Also: Hey, Speedsk8er, NC Smash reprazent!
 

Hylian

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I think I may of found something that is not useless for once XD.
 

AIDS

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that is pretty smart, majoras L cancles into bombs a lot aswell, lol combos like Dair, bomb, dair lol, yeah but i will try that hylian, sounds promising unless they are spacing and not sheilding
 

Hylian

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that is pretty smart, majoras L cancles into bombs a lot aswell, lol combos like Dair, bomb, dair lol, yeah but i will try that hylian, sounds promising unless they are spacing and not sheilding
Speaking of that, I can't wait to play majoras again. Our matchs are so fun :).
 

CT Chia

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wow i definitely wanna try this out. iv also done it once or twice by accident, but i never thought about using it for real
 

Zozefup

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How about this one:

Ledgehop, MC, WD back to the edge. Repeat.
lol no.



And I think L canceling into mines is just a style preference. I've seen a few Samus players do it after nearly every areal.

The problem with the ledge hop Fair to mine is there are better options. Mines don't have very much range, and if they know Samus very well, you can't Dair after the mine. Most of the time, even if you hit them all your going to do is weaken their shield. Because of the short range on the mines, you have a good chance of missing, and it's not hard for someone to punish you (especially Marth).

If it hits, youll get some insanely good combos. It would be pretty sweet to hit them with the ledgehop fair to double mine to Dair to mine to Nair though!! Holy crap! But most of the time youll just weaken their sheild, or miss and die :).

The advantage to the Up B is that it hits below their sheild. The Fair will weaken their sheild, so the UpB is a guaranteed 12% (on every character except Sheik). Plus you can just fast fall back to ledge after the UpB so you don't get punished. I usually prefer to do the UpB because it's a guaranteed hit, it has loads of range, and it incredibly hard to punish.

If you opponent is really aggressive and doesn't shield much (like Viperboy), then L-cancel Dsmash works too, throwing them off the ledge and giving you a cheap kill. I try this one about 20% of the time.
 

Lanowen

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thats a pretty sick idea hylian, ill try it out, thx

hey Lanowen what part of Mississauga u live in? I have lots of friends there :p
Dixie and Burnhamthorpe.

I haven't seen you post in the Canada section of the boards, we have a lot of stuff going on, not so much right now because of brawl I suppose.

You can find it under Smash Tournaments > Regional Zones > Canada
 

Nuclearsilo

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Dixie and Burnhamthorpe.

I haven't seen you post in the Canada section of the boards, we have a lot of stuff going on, not so much right now because of brawl I suppose.

You can find it under Smash Tournaments > Regional Zones > Canada
kk, tty there

btw: my friends live sooooooooo close by: Tomkin and Rathburn...
i used to live there until i moved...
What high school u go to? Glenforest?
 

Hylian

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Wouldn't your opponent have time to shieldgrab/buffer a roll after the fair? The bomb has too much startup time, doesn't it?
Actually...the start-up time is really fast. The bomb explodes the first frame possible because you are laying it on his shield.


And I live in the same state as majoras like...6 hours away.
 

Rat

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I agree with Zozefup,

a big problem with the bomb after an aerial is that it only works if they stay in their shield. So if you have trained them to shield after you aerial then it can work.

Also Ledgehop fair is kind of asking to be fsmashed to the face. "hey let me take away my double jump away and hit this small area right next to edge. You're standing by the edge right? uh-oh."
 

0RLY

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I agree with Zozefup,

a big problem with the bomb after an aerial is that it only works if they stay in their shield. So if you have trained them to shield after you aerial then it can work.

Also Ledgehop fair is kind of asking to be fsmashed to the face. "hey let me take away my double jump away and hit this small area right next to edge. You're standing by the edge right? uh-oh."
LOL! So true especially on peach!

As for the ledgehop fair thing... Theorhetically, this could work with any aerial right (bair out of a wj)? Personally, I prefer fair-ing past my opponent, Lcancel, then just fsmash (if the fair hits). I'd love to learn this trick in case my fair hits a shield.
 

AIDS

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I agree with Zozefup,

a big problem with the bomb after an aerial is that it only works if they stay in their shield. So if you have trained them to shield after you aerial then it can work.

Also Ledgehop fair is kind of asking to be fsmashed to the face. "hey let me take away my double jump away and hit this small area right next to edge. You're standing by the edge right? uh-oh."
you are a samus that worrys about being off the edge with no second jump? lmao
im pretty sure samus has an OK recovery =P
 

ph00tbag

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Actually...the start-up time is really fast. The bomb explodes the first frame possible because you are laying it on his shield.


And I live in the same state as majoras like...6 hours away.
I dunno, I looked at the frames and even assuming you're frame perfect, most opponents will have a three frame window in which they can sheild grab you or whatnot. I think the best bet is to go for it when you actually connect with the fair. If you hit a sheild, I really think the best bet is a dtilt.
 

AIDS

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I dunno, I looked at the frames and even assuming you're frame perfect, most opponents will have a three frame window in which they can sheild grab you or whatnot. I think the best bet is to go for it when you actually connect with the fair. If you hit a sheild, I really think the best bet is a dtilt.
i think Dtilt is to laggy, if they sheild the Fair, and the Dtilt u whould get sheild grabbed for shur, your only hope is if they have an empty enough gap at the bottom of the sheild, bombs react fast against a sheil and 3 frames is not a long time.... i think it is an ok strat
 

Hylian

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...


Why would anyone try and shieldgrab your fair? How many times has someone tried to shield grab samus's fair out of their shield and then been Up-B'ed? Almost no one will shieldgrab you. And if they shieldgrab you once, just up B next time.


Some of you are taking this like it is always the best option, which I did not say. I think it is useful a few times, and can potientailly break someones shield. If they are standing close to the edge and you can catch them with your fair this would be fine to do. They won't shieldgrab you (even if they did it would almost have to be luck. Our eyes can only read about 10 frames at a time so it's not like they could see the 3 frame window) and this obliterates their shield. Think about fair --> bomb --> wavedashdown out of the bombs explosion ---> Dsmash. Bye bye shield? There are several things you can do after the bombs.


I never said this will always be your best option, and I don't think you should do the same thing when recovering anyways. Just lighten up and give it a shot. I already know everything that is wrong with it. I still think it's useful. Want me to list everything what is wrong with fair to up b and say you shouldn't use it? No. It's still useful most of the time.


Actually try it in some matchs :).
 

Hylian

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Wow, that was shot down faster than any airplane flown in a WWII movie by a guy with a photo of his wife/girlfriend over the altimeter.

Why?
Start up time on the missile as well as the multitude of attacks that will go through missiles easily >_>.
 

ph00tbag

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Why would anyone try and shieldgrab your fair? How many times has someone tried to shield grab samus's fair out of their shield and then been Up-B'ed? Almost no one will shieldgrab you. And if they shieldgrab you once, just up B next time.
Hey, if you're going to suggest ideas, be prepared for their pros and cons to be weighed. No one is saying that it's a bad idea to bomb after fair. We're examining what could make it a good or bad move.
 

Mars-

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This is the one of the ways I bomb peoples shield, except I don't do it off the edge, I do it on the stage.
 

AIDS

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yeah thats pretty normal mars, some players even missle cancle right beside the guys sheild and bomb, as they do that, they can bomb jump into another missle cancle, it is actually pretty cool. lol
 

Hylian

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yeah thats pretty normal mars, some players even missle cancle right beside the guys sheild and bomb, as they do that, they can bomb jump into another missle cancle, it is actually pretty cool. lol
Yep. I've seen that a few times :).

There are a lot of options with bombs, but this topic is about fair to bomb from the ledge! XD.
 

AIDS

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But It Looks Cool!!!

Besides, what about the multitude of things that cut straight through bombs?
we are talking about bombing a sheild i think, maybe the Fair is u level it right to hardly get on the stage will have enough sheild stun to perform the move, bobm reacts fast one sheilds.
 
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