Legal stage list needs to be different for low tier tournaments

[Ja]

Many of the stages that were banned for normal melee were banned due to broken tactics by fox, or other high tiers. Since low tier tournaments do not allow these characters the stage selection needs to be revisited.

I'm not going to get into what should be neutral and what should be counterpick, as I don't know the low tier matchups in great detail. Instead, I will list stages that should probably be at least counterpickable.

I am considering what stages should be legal with these characters:
Low
Link 4.7
Pikachu 4.3
Young Link 4.2
Roy 3.6
Zelda 3.0
Game and Watch 3.0

Bottom
Ness 2.5
Yoshi 2.5
Bowser 2.2
Mewtwo 1.8
Kirby 1.5
Pichu 1.2

Should be at least counterpickable:
Flatzone - It's flat, and no more random than FoD. Falling stuff can be attacked or you can hide under the house.

Venom - Roy's disjointed sword is too weak at max range to camp the wall well.

Yoshi's Island - Why shouldn't it be legal?

Princess Peach's Castle - See Venom.

Fourside - Only peach can stall there, and there is no peach.

Mushroom Kingdom I - No fox.

Mushroom Kingdom II - No fox.



Onett - Fox is banned.

Not sure of:
Yoshi64 - None of the low tiers have a good projectile to camp the cloud with. But might be abusable to camping.

Kongo Jungle - No fox/marth/peach to abuse that rock, but some low tiers might be able to camp it brokenly well.

Still banned:
Brinstar depths - ****ing stupid.
Icicle mountain - ****ing stupid.
Big blue - ****ing stupid.
Hyrule Temple - It's a circle.
Termina - It's a circle.


These stages and reasons have not been tested in low tier tournaments, but are based off of why they were banned due to high tiers, and low tiers lacking abilities. For anyone running a low tier tournament I'd suggest allowing "not sures" and "at leasts" as counterpicks and seeing if any low tier characters have broken tactics on them.

Normal play stage ban reasoning

 

[keeper]

I would argue that most of what you said is stupid, except that Low Tier tourneys RARELY happen.

 

[Pi]

Many of the stages that were banned for normal melee were banned due to broken tactics by fox, or other high tiers. Since low tier tournaments do not allow these characters the stage selection needs to be revisited.

I'm not going to get into what should be neutral and what should be counterpick, as I don't know the low tier matchups in great detail. Instead, I will list stages that should probably be at least counterpickable.

I am considering what stages should be legal with these characters:
Low
Link 4.7
Pikachu 4.3
Young Link 4.2
Roy 3.6
Zelda 3.0
Game and Watch 3.0

Bottom
Ness 2.5
Yoshi 2.5
Bowser 2.2
Mewtwo 1.8
Kirby 1.5
Pichu 1.2

Should be at least counterpickable:
Flatzone - It's flat, and no more random than FoD. Falling stuff can be attacked or you can hide under the house.

Venom - Roy's disjointed sword is too weak at max range to camp the wall well.

Yoshi's Island - Why shouldn't it be legal?

Princess Peach's Castle - See Venom.

Fourside - Only peach can stall there, and there is no peach.

Mushroom Kingdom I - No fox.

Mushroom Kingdom II - No fox.



Onett - Fox is banned.

Not sure of:
Yoshi64 - None of the low tiers have a good projectile to camp the cloud with. But might be abusable to camping.

Kongo Jungle - No fox/marth/peach to abuse that rock, but some low tiers might be able to camp it brokenly well.

Still banned:
Brinstar depths - ****ing stupid.
Icicle mountain - ****ing stupid.
Big blue - ****ing stupid.
Hyrule Temple - It's a circle.
Termina - It's a circle.


These stages and reasons have not been tested in low tier tournaments, but are based off of why they were banned due to high tiers, and low tiers lacking abilities. For anyone running a low tier tournament I'd suggest allowing "not sures" and "at leasts" as counterpicks and seeing if any low tier characters have broken tactics on them.

Normal play stage ban reasoning

what? why?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

who the hell has low tier tournies anyways...?

 

[rhan]

I believe Great Bay should be a legal stage anyway. I ****ing love that stage!

 

[Ja]

I would argue that most of what you said is stupid, except that Low Tier tourneys RARELY happen.

I'm not claiming that every, or even most of that stage list is ideal, or even close it, but I do think the currently banned stages should be reevaluted for low tier tournaments and decided on a case by case basis.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not claiming that every, or even most of that stage list is ideal, or even close it, but I do think the currently banned stages should be reevaluted for low tier tournaments and decided on a case by case basis.

most of those stages were banned because of tactic abuse. without fox/sheik, there is still someone who would stand out on certain stages (yoshi would probably be one of the fastest moving, and has the best projectile out of them...)

 

[CluelessBTD]

I would argue that most of what you said is stupid, except that Low Tier tourneys RARELY happen.

I think what he said was all great and proven with logic. If you think it is stupid then you just don't understand his logic. It would be stupid if he didn't back it up with facts.

Low tier tourneys are often more fun than high tier, because they are less predictable. I have seen a lot around Houston Texas

 

[Ja]

most of those stages were banned because of tactic abuse. without fox/sheik, there is still someone who would stand out on certain stages (yoshi would probably be one of the fastest moving, and has the best projectile out of them...)

Probably, but the question is would they stand out more than some characters on currently legal counterpicks such as jiggs/peach on mute city, or fox on green greens?

 

[lordvaati]

Many of the stages that were banned for normal melee were banned due to broken tactics by fox, or other high tiers. Since low tier tournaments do not allow these characters the stage selection needs to be revisited.

I'm not going to get into what should be neutral and what should be counterpick, as I don't know the low tier matchups in great detail. Instead, I will list stages that should probably be at least counterpickable.

I am considering what stages should be legal with these characters:
Low
Link 4.7
Pikachu 4.3
Young Link 4.2
Roy 3.6
Zelda 3.0
Game and Watch 3.0

Bottom
Ness 2.5
Yoshi 2.5
Bowser 2.2
Mewtwo 1.8
Kirby 1.5
Pichu 1.2

Should be at least counterpickable:
Flatzone - It's flat, and no more random than FoD. Falling stuff can be attacked or you can hide under the house.

Venom - Roy's disjointed sword is too weak at max range to camp the wall well.

Yoshi's Island - Why shouldn't it be legal?

Princess Peach's Castle - See Venom.

Fourside - Only peach can stall there, and there is no peach.

Mushroom Kingdom I - No fox.

Mushroom Kingdom II - No fox.



Onett - Fox is banned.

Not sure of:
Yoshi64 - None of the low tiers have a good projectile to camp the cloud with. But might be abusable to camping.

Kongo Jungle - No fox/marth/peach to abuse that rock, but some low tiers might be able to camp it brokenly well.

Still banned:
Brinstar depths - ****ing stupid.
Icicle mountain - ****ing stupid.
Big blue - ****ing stupid.
Hyrule Temple - It's a circle.
Termina - It's a circle.


These stages and reasons have not been tested in low tier tournaments, but are based off of why they were banned due to high tiers, and low tiers lacking abilities. For anyone running a low tier tournament I'd suggest allowing "not sures" and "at leasts" as counterpicks and seeing if any low tier characters have broken tactics on them.

Normal play stage ban reasoning

Ok, 2 cents time.

Flatzone should still and Always be, banned. it's the smallest stage in the game, and most lows and bottoms are mid weight and lower, leading to too may early KOs.

Venom, I'm undecided. people with projectiles like Ness or Pikachu could have a big advantage with their attacks.

Yoshi's Island is suprisingly small, with many a case of unexpected Star Kos. nope.

Peach's castle and MKII are sometimes leagalized, so if you want it to be, sure.

Fourside can really suck if a player falls in between the buildings, and only one person- Young Link- can wall-jump out...but otherwise, it's not that bad.

MKI has the Blocks which can be used for juggling or racking up insane %. no.

Onett: CARS.

YI 64: only a few characters can recover from the right sucessfully, the ones who would be screwed the most are the Links and Bowser.

Kongo Jungle: the Rock camp isn't that bad, so go ahead.

that's all.

 

[Pi]

ultimately
the tournament rules come down to the TO's discretion
there is no set format
so if you want to host a tournament in the future, a low tier one, you can include any stage you want

so can any TO
also
**** tiers

 

[Had0]

also
**** tiers

What he said.

Oh and low tier FTW

 

[joeplicate]

I think what he said was all great and proven with logic. If you think it is stupid then you just don't understand his logic.

Fail reasoning.