Official Let's Get King Dedede Buffed! An Official Patch Request

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Brawl D3 was ranked highly because of his extremely polarising playstyle which invalidated a large number of characters, not because his character archetype of being slow and strong was actually effective, it was a design oversight that lead him to be good in a way that contrasts his intended character design.

As for air speeds being slow, Kirby and D3 are both very slow in Kirby games when they're floating, which was designed to counter act the fact you had infinite flight. Its likely Sakurai carried this idea over into Smash and went further to apply it to every character with multiple jumps but Puff, of course infinite flight would be too strong so he limited it to multiple jumps.

It wasn't just chain-grabbing. He could camp with WDT, play extremely safe with Bair and had one of the least gimpable recoveries.
He really was great in Brawl. And also, if carrying it over was the case, then Rest makes no sense and Wario's aerial mobility makes no sense.

 

[Flawed]

D3 Brawl strengths were his grab game, solid chain grabs on most the cast, good tech chases the side of the stage, a wall of pain bair, stupidly damaging throws (17%) AMAZING GRAB RANGE, invincibility on uptilt, a good inhale + grab armor

and finally: The second best spotdodge in the game.

Yes, we should agree he was pretty good in brawl.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Sometimes you want to try to aim for the stage ledge when performing Super Dedede Jump. If done just right, Dedede won't set off the Counter windows.

Seriously? Very interesting! I will try that in the future

 

[abx]

Isn't grabbing the ledge with Super Dedede Jump the most basic usage of this move as a recovery?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Isn't grabbing the ledge with Super Dedede Jump the most basic usage of this move as a recovery?

That is the best use. A stupid opponent may try to stop it when it doesn't ledge snap, and that is an easy 26%

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

How would you buff Jet Hammer?

GIVE US PROJECT M JET HAMMER! Honestly, that move was incredible! I didn't know about it for the longest time, then I finally played project M one day, pressed Down B and BAM! I believe it was a frame 4 kill move! But balanced because it still had significant end lag if you missed! I want that! It made it competitively useful, and it still retained its power of swag! It solved everything!

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

GIVE US PROJECT M JET HAMMER! Honestly, that move was incredible! I didn't know about it for the longest time, then I finally played project M one day, pressed Down B and BAM! I believe it was a frame 4 kill move! But balanced because it still had significant end lag if you missed! I want that! It made it competitively useful, and it still retained its power of swag! It solved everything!

I lived in Europe so I never played PM. BUT OH MY GOD THAT SOUNDS AMAZING. FRAME 4?! KILL MOVE?! That's absolutely incredible, oml.

 

[DEX_]

It doesn't really mean anything in term of buffes expectancy, but it seems at least it has been spread enough awareness about dedede's status right now, i mean, i'm every day finding more people that support the idea our beloved penguin NEEDS to be buffed in some way

example: https://sw.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4izhem/who_are_the_top_5_characters_who_need_buffs/

 

[Endurrr]

GIVE US PROJECT M JET HAMMER! Honestly, that move was incredible! I didn't know about it for the longest time, then I finally played project M one day, pressed Down B and BAM! I believe it was a frame 4 kill move! But balanced because it still had significant end lag if you missed! I want that! It made it competitively useful, and it still retained its power of swag! It solved everything!

I'm a firm believer that all jet hammer needs to be a decent, useable move is make the endlag similar to roy's neutral b and let it break full shields when fully charged. Everything else that people would like is great and all but we dont need microspacing with shorthops and aerial turnarounds and we dont need super armor or a dash forward. I dont think we need it to come out faster either.

 

[Soul Train]

It doesn't really mean anything in term of buffes expectancy, but it seems at least it has been spread enough awareness about dedede's status right now, i mean, i'm every day finding more people that support the idea our beloved penguin NEEDS to be buffed in some way

example: https://sw.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4izhem/who_are_the_top_5_characters_who_need_buffs/

That post actually makes me really happy. The dude hit D3's issues right on the head: "he can't approach, can't deal with projectiles, can't deal with rushdown, can't kill, can't go back to neutral, and can't move around in general." Preach. Good to see, though I just laugh when people go NO NOT D3, BUFF Zelda/Roy/Shulk/etc. Because I just checked out this book from the library, it's great let me read it to you, it's pages of the buffs those characters have seen.

I'm a firm believer that all jet hammer needs to be a decent, useable move is make the endlag similar to roy's neutral b and let it break full shields when fully charged. Everything else that people would like is great and all but we dont need microspacing with shorthops and aerial turnarounds and we dont need super armor or a dash forward. I dont think we need it to come out faster either.

Those would be fantastic buffs. Yet still, the ability to shorthop/B-reverse is pretty crucial. Mobility and unpredictability is key in this game; even with lower endlag the move would be incredibly easy to bait out and punish. Just why does it makes sense for D3 to only be able to jump HIGHER when he pulls out a rocket hammer, and not low? Dumb.

 

[Endurrr]

Those would be fantastic buffs. Yet still, the ability to shorthop/B-reverse is pretty crucial. Mobility and unpredictability is key in this game; even with lower endlag the move would be incredibly easy to bait out and punish. Just why does it makes sense for D3 to only be able to jump HIGHER when he pulls out a rocket hammer, and not low? Dumb.

I do see your point about the movement but I don't think the whole baiting out and punish bit makes sense. Not the way I see the way jet hammer would work with less endlag.

The thing is, jet hammer would still leave you wide open to projectiles and all that stuff even with a short hop and b reverse and direction change in midair. In neutral, all you're really doing - even with all the buffs both you and I mentioned - is taking away your ability to shield and airdodge. The hitbox doesn't cover a lot in front of dedede and the hitbox is out for two frames iirc. In neutral, all jet hammer is is a scary sound and a bluff that's either going to earn you 30% or kill you for your troubles, or theyre going to ignore you/throw projectiles at you until you give up trying to land something that isn't meant to be. Running around with jet hammer still wouldn't be a good neutral tool. A jet hammer with less endlag means you can just pull it out on someones shield and space it half charged and get away with it, but you still wouldn't be able to run around and play footsies with someone even if you got added movement abilities.

Now on the advantage side of things, jet hammer becomes one of the scariest moves in dedede's arsenal. While the opponent is on the ledge and you pull out a jet hammer that can kill you at 40 and all they can do is run away since you can't punish him effectively for whiffing it and you can't shield it since you waited too long, the opponent starts playing mindgames with themselves, which they currently don't since all they have to do is escape, then they can punish as hard as they want, at least in the case of full charge. Sure, shorthopping would be cool but its not really a huge deal at the ledge since you're not going to get far with it in neutral and you can just space it to cover getup attack anyway.

Extra mobility would be nice and all but it definitely shouldn't be prioritized over less endlag since less endlag means scarier ledge game as well as offstage edgeguarding and the mobility wouldn't make a lot of difference anyway. And it would probably take sakurai a bit more coding to add a shorthop in than to decrease the endlag on jet hammer.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

It doesn't really mean anything in term of buffes expectancy, but it seems at least it has been spread enough awareness about dedede's status right now, i mean, i'm every day finding more people that support the idea our beloved penguin NEEDS to be buffed in some way

example: https://sw.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4izhem/who_are_the_top_5_characters_who_need_buffs/

Aw, Yay. I believe with a few Buffs, Dedede can become "Usable" AKA, at least Mid-Low tier.

Also, out of the issues that need to be fixed,I think it is Approach and Projectile Camping. Increase his Ground speed to be only a little slower than Donkey Kong's,and make his Air Speed at least Meta Knights, Gordo is a big thing I want to change. I would love it if it couldn't get reflected, but the more it got hit, the less damage it would do. This would help with Campers. Also, give him like 8 jumps. He's probably got lungs the size of Kirby. I actually disagree with him not being able to regain Neutral. It's super hard, but possible. And I'd love for frame data being reduced on Jab (10 frames, seriously?!) and all aerials. I think that would make him a good character. As for Jet Hammer, I would love PM's Jet Hammer, but also reduce the end lag. If all of these buffs happened, Dedede would no longer be seen as "a good bottom tier", but as a legitimately good character.

 

[SalsaSavant]

What do people think about Gordo buffs?

I could see anything from 3% to 6% being viable for the reflection threshold, possibly with some new downsides for 5-6%.
What do you think? I say 4. Just enough to let us beat the jabs of most of the non-heavies (who we don't need too much of a buff against anyway)

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

We actually just had a conversation about that on the last page! We were basically debating between 4 and 6% reflect thresholds! and what it came down to is that basically, 6% would be really cheesy but every other heavy got some ridiculous cheese in their buffs, we kinda need something like that, its better than just giving us a hoo hah, and it would help a lot in certain matchups.

 

[Karnu]

Apparently we are getting a patch! Fingers crossed it's a balance and Dedede gets love

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

Apparently we are getting a patch! Fingers crossed it's a balance and Dedede gets love

source?

Edit: for those curious: https://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/axfj/update/index.html

 

[GuardianOfTheLedge]

Im really nervous now. One of the major stressors in my life recently has been worrying about Dedede's future in the meta. This is the climax and I can't see myself calming down any time soon, no matter the outcome of 1.1.6. I guess all we can do now is back up our replays and hope for the best.

 

[Soul Train]

Im really nervous now. One of the major stressors in my life recently has been worrying about Dedede's future in the meta. This is the climax and I can't see myself calming down any time soon, no matter the outcome of 1.1.6. I guess all we can do now is back up our replays and hope for the best.

Welcome to the boards! My friend, I promise you - few people are as invested in the King as I am, I get it. But please, be kind to yourself, and don't let the state of an imaginary character in a game never designed for competitive play...get to you. I know, it's hard when you care about something like this. But it's just cruel to play the King and put any personal reliance on his improvement; that was never why we picked the penguin in the beginning. We can hope yes, but only if we continue to be realistic.

So here's hoping. And regardless of the outcome, here's to a better Smash 4 post-patch.

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

OT: I've seen people posting that dedede has gotten only nerfs may be in part related to his For Glory win rate. Now, if that's true, then maybe we should all start losing in online matches so that we can force a buff

 

[GuardianOfTheLedge]

Welcome to the boards! My friend, I promise you - few people are as invested in the King as I am, I get it. But please, be kind to yourself, and don't let the state of an imaginary character in a game never designed for competitive play...get to you. I know, it's hard when you care about something like this. But it's just cruel to play the King and put any personal reliance on his improvement; that was never why we picked the penguin in the beginning. We can hope yes, but only if we continue to be realistic.

So here's hoping. And regardless of the outcome, here's to a better Smash 4 post-patch.

I worded that a little strongly. Yes, I am worried about Dedede getting buffed. But I shouldn't have said it was a MAJOR stressor in my life. Though it wouldn't be untrue to say I would hate to have to drop my favorite character, just so I can do ok in tournament. I guess im just exited for 1.1.6 and my inner need for a little internet drama got the best of me.( probably not a good first impression. LOL.)

Back on the subject of buffs, whether we get any significant or not, I'm sure post 1.1.6 can't be any harder than what we have now thanks to the likelyhood that our top tier threats will be nerfed.

And lastly, thanks for the welcoming. Im really happy to finally be contributing to the D3 boards. : )

 

[SalsaSavant]

So....#BuffThePuff is going semi-viral...and we've got nothing.

Quick! Someone think of something as catchy!

 

[ExiaPilotDedede]

So....#BuffThePuff is going semi-viral...and we've got nothing.

Quick! Someone think of something as catchy!

#BuffTheBiggerPuff
#MakeDreamlandGreatAgain
#Don'tBuffButPlzFix

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/4jtro0/with_buffthepuff_getting_so_much_attention_can/

 

[GuardianOfTheLedge]

So....#BuffThePuff is going semi-viral...and we've got nothing.

Quick! Someone think of something as catchy!

#FreeTheD
#FreeDThree

Well, thats all I got.

 

[SalsaSavant]

#FreeTheD
#FreeDThree

Well, thats all I got.

#FreeTheD.

I like. It can be a double entedre, which'll get it attention.

Quick, in the name of your glorious king, spam social media!

 

[GuardianOfTheLedge]

I just thought of this too:

#SpreadTheWordAndBuffBigBird
Or
#SpreadTheWordAndBuffTheBird

I think they are catchy, but also a little ambiguous given sm4sh has multiple birds.

Edit: The Jiggs board is making a community montage to boost morale and raise awareness of their situation. It is too late for us to make one before 1.1.6 lands. But maybe we should consider making our own. Because even if it is too late, I think we could use a morale boost.

Edit 2: http://buffpuff.club/ Jiggly mains are doing everything they can. Maybe we should follow in their footsteps here too.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Imagine if Puff, Ganon, and Zelda all get buffed while we get nothing. We will actually be the undisputed worst character in the game. That's actually amazing how that is possible considering how we were probably low-mid at launch, and I remember Japan rated Dedede high-mid on their first tier list. Nobody could have seen this coming.

 

[WaddleKing]

How about #BuffTheKing or #BuffTheD?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Imagine if Puff, Ganon, and Zelda all get buffed while we get nothing. We will actually be the undisputed worst character in the game. That's actually amazing how that is possible considering how we were probably low-mid at launch, and I remember Japan rated Dedede high-mid on their first tier list. Nobody could have seen this coming.

That's true. Release Dedede was poor, but kinda Link-Bowser JR level. Pretty decent, but could've used some Buffs. Nowdays he's in a really bad position. Luckily, the Smash Balancing team seem to have forgotten Jigglypuff exists (Can't blame them!) so she won't get buffs. So we will have to get heavily nerfed to be worse than Jigglypuff.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

#FreeTheD.

I like. It can be a double entedre, which'll get it attention.

Quick, in the name of your glorious king, spam social media!

Yeah, I think FreeTheD will take effect in people's minds. I think a good starting point is Etika's Fanbase.



Edit 2: http://buffpuff.club/ Jiggly mains are doing everything they can. Maybe we should follow in their footsteps here too.[/QUOTE]
It's weird, but I like to think that Dedede and Jiggly mains are on the same boat. Both great characters in previous games, trying to appeal to get better, both looked down as Joke Characters and they hold the position of the worst characters in the game (Mii Swordfighter too, but who uses it). The thing is, we don't know where that boat will go. It could go nowhere or worse, go to nerf dungeon, where Diddy and Greninja were held prisoner for a while. Maybe we should make a Hashtag that has both characters referenced. More support for the other character. Here's my one:#RegaintheRoyalty. Jigglypuff is often known as the Queen of Disrespect., in case you were wondering.

 

[ElectroLightning]

What about #BuffthePuffs? Kirby, Jigglypuff, and DDD?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Edit 2: http://buffpuff.club/ Jiggly mains are doing everything they can. Maybe we should follow in their footsteps here too.[/QUOTE]

What about #BuffthePuffs? Kirby, Jigglypuff, and DDD?

Kirby needs buffs?

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

Kirby needs buffs?

Ehhh, kind of, I guess Kirby could use more buffs, but Kirby has already received many nice buffs, while Puff and Dedede have gotten none. I'm trying to think of something too that only applies to Dedede and Jiggs, since they have a similar body type and jumps, but we actually have little else in common other than complete neglect from the devs

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Ehhh, kind of, I guess Kirby could use more buffs, but Kirby has already received many nice buffs, while Puff and Dedede have gotten none. I'm trying to think of something too that only applies to Dedede and Jiggs, since they have a similar body type and jumps, but we actually have little else in common other than complete neglect from the devs

Well Lucina? Nah, she's too flat (Sorrynotsorry). I'd say Charzard but he doesn't puff up, he uses his wings... Honestly I think we can keep it like that. Although I'd take Kirby out since he's Mid Tier now.

 

[Karnu]

#buffmybigD

 

[Gattsu]

bayo is apparently the only character changed in the new balanced patch
rest in peace if this is the last patch

 

[Treemendous]

bayo is apparently the only character changed

Unfortunate that the balance team seems to think that Bayo is the only character worth even working on at this point, but a nerf to Bayo is better for Dedede than nothing at all, so we'll take what we can get. Best case scenario is that the files that have been analysed are just an incomplete snapshot, but that's probably just wishful thinking at this point... #BuffthePuffs

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

I'm a firm believer in that everything has a positive outcome. Let's do that with this patch.
For starters, Dedede was left alone. Not nerfed, just left alone. Then Bayonetta got nerfed. This technically buffs everyone except for Bayonetta, obviously. This cloud have been so much worse, at this point we should be grateful.

 

[Cook]

Supposedly when they datamined the Cloud patch the only files they only found Cloud to be new and no other changes, but when the patch went live (or maybe shortly before) there ended up being other character changes. Guess we'll find out when it drops tonight.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Supposedly when they datamined the Cloud patch the only files they only found Cloud to be new and no other changes, but when the patch went live (or maybe shortly before) there ended up being other character changes. Guess we'll find out when it drops tonight.

Here's hoping. #BUFFTHEPUFFSBest case scenario that Dedede and Jiggs both get big buffs, I'm going to chat to the Jigglypuff mains. May we form an alliance in hope of getting buffs.

 

[GuardianOfTheLedge]

The patch is live and I'm not noticing anything new for our beloved king.
But we can't give up now! There is no predicting what the future have in store for us. If we drop our hammers and call it quits, then we forfit our voice, our influence on any future patches, and all the hard work we have done with D3.

We must forever remain loyal to the king!