choknater
Smash Obsessed
This thread is for Ice Climbers vs Metaknight ONLY.
I know there's matchup threads, but I want to dedicate a thread to just this matchup.
If there is any character I see having the potential to conquer the current best character in the game, it's definitely the Ice Climbers. I'm probably biased against Snake/G&W/Falco whatever because I play IC's, but seriously I think the IC's has a lot going for them in this matchup.
Before I begin: I ban negativity in this thread lol. This is only about finding ways to beat him, not about complaining about how hard he is. I know that Metaknight might have many things going for him against IC's, but this topic is for us to discuss how to get through them.
Anyway, I'm sure many of us have already taken the first step for this matchup: Perfecting alt-grabs.
In fact, I, for one, have mastered my cg timing to cater to only Metaknight. I'm actually quite horrible at doing it to heavies, and the cg's are naturally easy to do on mid-weight characters... But I digress. I have gotten guaranteed grab death combos on Metaknight to an art form, and I'm sure each of us have our own individual ways to guarantee death from a grab on him.
So that's step ONE: Perfect the alt grab on MK. Entirely possible.
Now I open up the matchup discussion to you IC mains: What are the next steps that we must take? What advantages does Metaknight have against IC's? Is the tornado an issue? Is it the spacing and priority difficulties? Are we able to zone him effectively with desynched sh-blizzards or not?
Most importantly, how do we perfect our non-grab tactics for this matchup IN A WAY THAT WILL LEAD US TO MORE GRABS WITH MORE EASE?
Discuss.
I'll start this off:
I think blizzards play a HUGE role in spacing him, since he can't really get through it from a direct horizontal approach. This plays a huge part in spacing him since for the most part it outranges his sword. Are there ways he can get through the blizzard? Just so that we know what to do when he DOES attempt to get through it.
MK, I'm sure, can just try to camp the blizzards too. Or jump over them and just dair, causing separation. IMO approaching sh-blizzards are the best way to go, which prevent camping and still outprioritize and prevent direct forward approaches.
Another point... Solo popo is really crap against Metaknight. He has blizzard and some low% cg's to fsmash... but after that it's a matter of evasion and survival. Popo can do this well, but once you actually mess up in your defense and get knocked off the stage, we're pretty screwed.
So even though we think desynching might be our savior in this matchup, it's only the safe, high-priority desynch attacks that we can really use effectively. I've seen people squall, nair, or dash attack for desynchs... but that stuff has really low priority and can cause EASY separation if Metaknight punishes it. I'd say stick with blizzards, blocks, and uairs... all of them have great priority which give MK a hard time breaking through. Or am I just being closed-minded?
Keeping Nana alive is a really important. We know that already... and we have to apply it. We can't just go in with low risky approaches. We should only nair and stuff when we are REALLY in a pinch. Heck, even synched squall can be dangerous and beaten by a lot of MK's moves. I know it works sometimes, but we should only use it if we're DEFINITELY sure it'll connect, or when MK is shielding, (or if you are really gutsy under pressure.)
Anyway that's most of what I had to point out. Now discuss!
I hope this thread works in conjunction with PLUR's new tactics thread, because I think now is the time, more than ever, to expand on the possibilities that so many people are believing in. In those "most tech skill" and "most potential" threads in the general Brawl boards, everyone says IC's. It's time to bring it out more!
Millar and Hylian: I'm calling you guys out because you guys are pretty good but can be even better from what I'm seeing.
I know there's matchup threads, but I want to dedicate a thread to just this matchup.
If there is any character I see having the potential to conquer the current best character in the game, it's definitely the Ice Climbers. I'm probably biased against Snake/G&W/Falco whatever because I play IC's, but seriously I think the IC's has a lot going for them in this matchup.
Before I begin: I ban negativity in this thread lol. This is only about finding ways to beat him, not about complaining about how hard he is. I know that Metaknight might have many things going for him against IC's, but this topic is for us to discuss how to get through them.
Anyway, I'm sure many of us have already taken the first step for this matchup: Perfecting alt-grabs.
In fact, I, for one, have mastered my cg timing to cater to only Metaknight. I'm actually quite horrible at doing it to heavies, and the cg's are naturally easy to do on mid-weight characters... But I digress. I have gotten guaranteed grab death combos on Metaknight to an art form, and I'm sure each of us have our own individual ways to guarantee death from a grab on him.
So that's step ONE: Perfect the alt grab on MK. Entirely possible.
Now I open up the matchup discussion to you IC mains: What are the next steps that we must take? What advantages does Metaknight have against IC's? Is the tornado an issue? Is it the spacing and priority difficulties? Are we able to zone him effectively with desynched sh-blizzards or not?
Most importantly, how do we perfect our non-grab tactics for this matchup IN A WAY THAT WILL LEAD US TO MORE GRABS WITH MORE EASE?
Discuss.
I'll start this off:
I think blizzards play a HUGE role in spacing him, since he can't really get through it from a direct horizontal approach. This plays a huge part in spacing him since for the most part it outranges his sword. Are there ways he can get through the blizzard? Just so that we know what to do when he DOES attempt to get through it.
MK, I'm sure, can just try to camp the blizzards too. Or jump over them and just dair, causing separation. IMO approaching sh-blizzards are the best way to go, which prevent camping and still outprioritize and prevent direct forward approaches.
Another point... Solo popo is really crap against Metaknight. He has blizzard and some low% cg's to fsmash... but after that it's a matter of evasion and survival. Popo can do this well, but once you actually mess up in your defense and get knocked off the stage, we're pretty screwed.
So even though we think desynching might be our savior in this matchup, it's only the safe, high-priority desynch attacks that we can really use effectively. I've seen people squall, nair, or dash attack for desynchs... but that stuff has really low priority and can cause EASY separation if Metaknight punishes it. I'd say stick with blizzards, blocks, and uairs... all of them have great priority which give MK a hard time breaking through. Or am I just being closed-minded?
Keeping Nana alive is a really important. We know that already... and we have to apply it. We can't just go in with low risky approaches. We should only nair and stuff when we are REALLY in a pinch. Heck, even synched squall can be dangerous and beaten by a lot of MK's moves. I know it works sometimes, but we should only use it if we're DEFINITELY sure it'll connect, or when MK is shielding, (or if you are really gutsy under pressure.)
Anyway that's most of what I had to point out. Now discuss!
I hope this thread works in conjunction with PLUR's new tactics thread, because I think now is the time, more than ever, to expand on the possibilities that so many people are believing in. In those "most tech skill" and "most potential" threads in the general Brawl boards, everyone says IC's. It's time to bring it out more!
Millar and Hylian: I'm calling you guys out because you guys are pretty good but can be even better from what I'm seeing.