Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link doesn't have that whole infinite grab thing on Lucas right?

No because we can't force a ground break, nor does it come out fast enough.

 

[Anonano]

Dsmash is guaranteed from ground breaks, so if you manage to grab him at 100%+ just pummel him until he breaks, then dsmash for the KO.
However, the timing is somewhat strict, so practice the timing of the dsmash (perhaps through practice mode) before trying it on a real-life Lucas or Ness.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

*Nevemind*

I'll have some exports tomorrow and a fixed chart.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Link doesn't have that whole infinite grab thing on Lucas right?

I was playing a Link on wifi and he was able to do it to me darn red connections! Anyway, no, but Lucas can get gay'd by grab release combos, but you have to realize that half of Lucas' metagame is not getting grabbed. Lucas is screwed by every character that has a grab in some way so most good Lucas' will know how not to get grabbed. And since I know what it's like to have a tether grab, you're definitely not going to want to be spamming your grab.

 

[Lawz.]

Dsmash is guaranteed from ground breaks, so if you manage to grab him at 100%+ just pummel him until he breaks, then dsmash for the KO.
However, the timing is somewhat strict, so practice the timing of the dsmash (perhaps through practice mode) before trying it on a real-life Lucas or Ness.

If you grab and then keep spamming down on the c-stick, Link will pummel and then dsmash when there's a release.

 

[Rinku リンク]

I have friend that mains Lucas so i know the MU pretty well. Zair's pretty difficult to use since he's on the short side and you can get a PK Fire to the face if he spaces correctly. IF he tries to gimp you with PK thunder throw your boomerang at it to safely reach the edge. To gimp him space to where your boomerang will push him so that way it messes up his angling when he tries to recover, but this only usually works when he can't tether back.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well, I think we should move on seeing as some time has past.

Ice Climbers, Toon Link, (Shiek/Zelda), Jigglypuff,

Your pick.

 

[Scabe]

Sheik/Zelda

I'll try help out if I can, but I'm too scared that my post will have useless noob information. Bu I'll try my best once I have some time to study it.

 

[pulse131]

Well, I think we should move on seeing as some time has past.

Ice Climbers, Toon Link, (Shiek/Zelda), Jigglypuff,

Your pick.

toon link. i usually have problems with him. and lucario

 

[Realmz]

I agree with Shiek/Zelda. The one match Link doesn't mind being ***** in.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Looks like Sheik/Zelda is a go go.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Note: all of the following stuff regards Zelda vs Link. I don't have enough knowledge on Sheik to contribute.

Zelda's DSmash is really bad news for Link. Due to the low angle knockback, if you don't DI then it's borderline impossible to recover. However, even if you do DI it means that you're more likely to be killed in the process. Add in the fact that it's faster than Link's entire arsenal and a good ooS option, and you have a problem. If you have enough space between you and the edge, you can DI down and tech against the floor. But if they do it close to the edge, that causes problems.

Another problem is USmash juggling. Due to a combination of Link's poor air speed and fast falling speed, he is very susceptible to this. If she manages to land a chain of 4 USmashes, that means you take a good 50% damage in the process. It involves prediction on Zelda's part, but it's something to watch out for.

Also, there's her DTilt. That causes a problem because it can be linked into itself at around 50%+, AND it comboes into DSmash, and for why that's bad go back two paragraphs. So those are three moves you really have to watch out for.

It's by no means unwinnable for Link though. You force her to approach, because Din's can easily be cancelled out with an aerial to stop yourself getting hurt. She can try to reflect your projectiles, though in practice you can easily bait it, and because of the huge cooldown (31 frames), it's easy to punish. Forcing Zelda to approach is really bad for her, since she has no safe approaches on her person. All of them are punishable on block. You should try your best not to approach her, because she has a great defensive game and can make herself hard to hit.

She's also extremely vulnerable from above. She can dish out the hurt when she's below her opponent, but when she's above them she generally tries to get back to the ground asap. Dair is too risky because it's slow and rarely sweetspots, and she doesn't have any reliable options to protect herself. Not to mention she falls VERY slowly.


All in all, the main strategy you want to take is forcing her to approach, punishing her approaches, and trying to get her above you. Meanwhile, you want to avoid being above her, getting hit by DSmash, or allowing her to play defensive.

IMO, this matchup is 60:40 Zelda.

 

[choknater]

i think link can beat zelda lols dunno though

as for sheik

wow

sheik is 2 fast

way easier than toon link

if u can get through tlink's projectile game u can get through link's easily

link has more power and range at close range but sheik's frame data doesnt really care about that

i just pressure link till he dies

any stage, lol.

if the link can deal with pressure i start playing smarter and needling more lol

never had trouble with this matchup its like 80:20 sheik to me

so dont listen to me... never played any really good links

 

[Rinku リンク]

100:0 Zelda's favor. Are you guys nuts ? we can't possbily harm our own princess that we've been saving since forever. As for sheik, she's just too ninja for us to handle in the first place.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

does Links Dair go through Zeldas Usmash and Uair?

i think the Zelda boards came to 60:40 Zelda when we discussed it a while ago.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Link's Dair can go through if it nails Zelda's head.

I'll do a write up later.

 

[ndayday]

Din's

On Din's, it can be blocked with Link's shield. You just have to be careful that Zelda doesn't send it behind you, and if she does you can just shield/PS. :/
For her recovery, definitely learn how it works. She can do some crazy stuff with it, and it's not good when you think she's going to land somewhere and she lands in a perfect position to lay down a dtilt, usmash, dsmash, etc.

As for Shiek, don't get ftilted. I have no idea on Shiek. :embarrass

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Don't get Dsmashed by Zelda. once you do, prepareto be dead.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Zelda's Dsmash would be less of a threat if Link's could whiplash consistently.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Avoid his dair it's deadly.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Avoid his dair it's deadly.

Usmash beats it out 9 times out of ten.

As a zelda, you should know when it's not even worth that small risk, but keep in mind that, if link's gonna try to use that much, he is very punishable.

of course, it's just as easy to spotdodge Dsmash punish it.

just don't fight it in the air unless you KNOW you are gonna get out Uair in time.


speaking of which, Link's uair is pretty good against us when we are airborne because we don't have many ways around it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

is there any other stage other than Norfair that we want to ban against Link?

 

[Anonano]

Battlefield is worth considering. Since Link can't directly engage you, he'll be doing a lot of jumping around on the platforms and bombing you (which can't be deflected by Nayru's Love if he aims down).
Zelda is slow enough for this to be a legitimate strategy, and your aerials are rather, erm, obvious and easy to avoid (particular Uair since you would be relying on it so much).

Tbh, I would ban BF against Link before I would ban Norfair. Norfair only *seems* scary to non-Link mains because of Deva's reputation, most Links can't perform up to the standard that Deva can on Norfair.

Then again, you'd only take Zelda vs Link over Sheik vs Link if you're a purist or you are insane. Sheik has the damage racking tools, unpredictable speed and movement, and the perfect gimping setups to destroy Link.

From experience, its 55:45 or 60:40 Zelda and 70:30 Sheik.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Battlefield is worth considering. Since Link can't directly engage you, he'll be doing a lot of jumping around on the platforms and bombing you (which can't be deflected by Nayru's Love if he aims down).
Zelda is slow enough for this to be a legitimate strategy, and your aerials are rather, erm, obvious and easy to avoid (particular Uair since you would be relying on it so much).

Tbh, I would ban BF against Link before I would ban Norfair. Norfair only *seems* scary to non-Link mains because of Deva's reputation, most Links can't perform up to the standard that Deva can on Norfair.

Then again, you'd only take Zelda vs Link over Sheik vs Link if you're a purist or you are insane. Sheik has the damage racking tools, unpredictable speed and movement, and the perfect gimping setups to destroy Link.

From experience, its 55:45 or 60:40 Zelda and 70:30 Sheik.

zelda's aerials are very easy to avoid in dogfights.

you give her the platforms of battlefeild and they are MUCH more useable. I would not underestimate Zelda there.

 

[Scabe]

Not sure if this is 100 percent but you can escape most of the Ftilt lock Sheik has by smash DIing diagonally down towards Shiek preferably using both sticks. Anyways keep up the good work.

 

[Realmz]

I don't have too much experience with Zelda, but don't go for Dair - AT ALL - When shes juggling you. You're likely to get beat to the punch almost everytime, so just go for bombs and mind games. You can juggle her pretty good yourself. You have to worry about her d-smash and f-smash a bit, so I would use some retreating Zairs, as a PS could lead to a strong smack in the face or a kick in the balls, if you get what I mean. To my knowledge, you can camp her decently, as her NL is a bit flawed, but don't underestimate her option to use it.

When you're grounded, use your step dodge to avoid Dins fire at all times, its rather easy actually. She can try to fake you out by exploding it infront of you rather than on you directly, so watch out for that and you should be safe. Watch out for it off-stage even more so as well, considering that could **** over your chance at making it back or put you in a better postion for her to gimp/spike you. Don't let her stage-spike you when you're hanging by your clawshot, either >_>

As for being up-close, as long as shes defensive she can overwhelm you (but I wouldn't say its ****, either), so do that somewhat sparingly.

Shiek ***** you manly, so jump off quickly. If you wanna struggle, however, I would pretty much say the same as with Zelda minus the Dins, avoid close combat even more, needles are a pain, he/she can rack up damage and gimp you like its nothing, and you aren't juggled as hard as with Zelda (I guess thats quite a bit different, actually ^_^; and worse). Shiek can get through your camping and spam after a while (not easy easy, but he/she will somewhat quickly), so I would suggest a little bomb spam (don't over do it), and see if you can catch them off guard with a grab to get them TFO.


Thats my take on the match-up. I guess 60-40 Zelda and 30/35-60/65 Shiek is about right. What if its a Shiek-to-Zelda player, though?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

if they are starting off as shiek theres no reason to go to Zelda unless you want to try a Dsmash killing

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

When I used to play Sheik/Zelda I never switched to Zelda because Sheik just could do so much more against Link.

Zelda has a slight advantage, but Sheik just laughs at him while she combos, gimps, and tilt locks him.

The only time as Link I've seen a Sheik/Zelda player switched was because they had trouble landing the kill move when I avoided being gimped.

 

[ndayday]

Not sure if this is 100 percent but you can escape most of the Ftilt lock Sheik has by smash DIing diagonally down towards Shiek preferably using both sticks. Anyways keep up the good work.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Can anyone confirm this?

You can DI it, but if they really stale it, then it's really hard to DI out.

 

[Scabe]

Well usually, when I get F-tilt locked, without DI or trying to angle the control stick, Link get's juggled higher and higher each time and Sheiks usually follow it with an UpSmash, when I smash DI'd I think I managed to get like 2 or 3 hits before landing behind Sheik and being able to escape. I'll have to double check again.

Edit: Cool, I'm pretty sure now that by SmashDIing diagonally into Sheik's Ftilt lock will help you escape faster by making you go behind Sheik.

Also, With Zelda you can Smash DI her Fsmash by tapping Up both on the control stick and C stick. It lets you escape the final blow. But if Zelda spaces so that only the last hit will hit then the DIing won't help.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Can anyone confirm this?

DI towards sheik and then, just when you are about to escape, Sheik can Usmash or Dsmash you.

Or, if he's truly evil, he can turn around and start ftilting you again.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

DI towards sheik and then, just when you are about to escape, Sheik can Usmash or Dsmash you.

Or, if he's truly evil, he can turn around and start ftilting you again.

So, Zelda does change her gender with Down-B!

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Sheik:
Obviously, watch for the tilt-lock. While DI will help, she can usually follow up with a smash or more pivot tilts. Her ability to gimp is going to be a major issue as she has a chain and aerials with odd trajectories to utilize off-stage. Her spikes are going to rack damage, as usual, and ruin your dacus as well, so watch out for that. Your range is going to be an advantage, but her quickness is tough to beat. Chain-jacketting can be ruined with a simple bomb or arrow, so don't worry about that.

Zelda:
Potentially a larger threat than her protectory. Her B will really mess you up from bomb-combos to boomerang set-ups. D-Smash is her biggest threat and her spike and B-Air will be really easy to pull out offstage. Din's Fire won't be a huge problem, since you'll want to be at mid-range throughout the match. D-Tilt is going to combo into more tilts and even a D-Smash, so DI the minute you see it coming.

35:65 :shiek:

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Her B will really mess you up from bomb-combos to boomerang set-ups.

generally speaking, Zelda should be sheilding bombs, not reflecting them

 

[-dMT-]

A Zelda/Sheik player will go Sheik for the entire match here most likely. Only time you'll face a Zelda is in the case of a player who refuses to use Sheik.

Zelda/Sheik players in general start with Sheik due to her extraordinary ability to rack damage at early percents. Only time they ever switch to Zelda in most matches is for the fresh kill at high percents. In the case of Link, however, this probably won't happen as Link is fairly easy to gimp, especially at the hands of Sheik.

At early percents there's Sheik's ftilt lock. It's just as the name implies, a lock. Link's aerials aren't fast enough for a sure-fire escape and in my experience Sheik's swan combo is also effective vs Link.

Swan Combo: A series of ftilts being followed up by a SH fair and then into another ftilt... etc..

These 2 tools will lead to major damage versus Link. Link is also easily juggled via Sheik's juggle game, using dthrow, AC uair, sour-spotted nairs, and baiting air dodges to re-grab or tilt again. Only real answer Link has to this is his dair, which when predicted can be punished hard.

Link has good range and disjointed hitboxes that can keep a Sheik at bay when played defensively and safely. His projectile game can also be solid, however Sheik's needles can stop Link in his tracks or mess up his setup.

The match-up is a rather large disadvantage for Link, since the slightest opening from Link that allows the Sheik into the in-game will be the end of him. Ftilt lock, swan combo together can damage and force Link to the edge and off stage, where needles or a simple aerial can finish him off with a gimp.

I say it's at BEST a 30:70 vs Sheik, although imo I'd argue for 25:75 or even 20:80 against Link.

The mathcup versus Zelda should be taken seprately imo, since as I stated, a Zelda/Sheik main will almost always go Sheik only for this matchup. So whenever you deal with Zelda, it'll be a Zelda only player.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

a Zelda/Sheik main will almost always go Sheik only for this matchup. So whenever you deal with Zelda, it'll be a Zelda only player.

I go mainly sheik in this matcuhp, but I DO play both characters.


I would, however, make the assumption that, if the oponent DOES use both, they will have a stock lead when they pull out Zelda, FORCING you to approach.

Transforming refreshes movesets too. Yay.

 

[-dMT-]

I go mainly sheik in this matcuhp, but I DO play both characters.


I would, however, make the assumption that, if the oponent DOES use both, they will have a stock lead when they pull out Zelda, FORCING you to approach.

Transforming refreshes movesets too. Yay.

True. You'll find many people with many tastes exist. The Zelda and Sheik boards had worked together at a time with a common thread to determine how a Z/S main would play versus a character. Some match-up had higher advantage as only Sheik. Link was one of them. Going for a power kill versus Link upward or diagonally won't work as well due to his weight. So a lot of Zelda's smashes, while strong, will probably not get the job done as fast as a gimp. Save for Zelda's dsmash. The trajectory on that is lovely. Sheik although, can play a veeeery good gimp game. Link's recovery is very vulnerable to gimps. Just saying this will probably be what you guys face more often than not from Zelda/Sheik players.

 

[Eulss4]

what happened with the rest of the match-ups?

 

[pulse131]

zair the living terd out of her