Low Tiers and The Tournament Scene

[Yuna]

The joys of maining a high-tier. Those of you who say the tier list is a shortcut? It's not very reliable.

This is another argument altogether. What has been debated insofar has merely been the practice of relying on Tier Lists for choosing your main. If the tier list turns out to be flawed, you're free to switch mains to a more viable character later.

But the point is that many people are against using the tier list at all, whether it is reliable or not.

While their opinion that low tier characters cannot beat high tier characters is wrong, the chances of that are rather slim.

No one reliable says "X cannot ever beat Y". The Tier List is merely a representation of each character's chances at winning. No one's saying Captain Falcon can never, ever in a million years win a major tournament. We're just saying that it is highly improbable.

Neither reliable players or the Tier List is saying "X can never ever beat Y" or "Z can never, ever win a major tournament". That's just what some people misinterpret our statements and the Tier List as saying.

It's the fact that so many people listen to that is cause for anger.

Blame the ignorants who misinterpret people's words due to their lack of insight.

Quality can never be rushed, because there is always something better to be done if you take more time.

The first few Tier Lists are always a bit inaccurate. The Tier List had to be rushed because people were getting impatient.

Also, the quote only says that the Tier List is only inaccurate when it comes to the internal ranking of Low Tiers, as in which Low Tiers go where in the Low Tier because the most important characters to get right right away are the High Tiers.

So they dissected the game enough to find out roughly where on the Tier List each character was. Then they concentrated on the Highs and didn't really go that much into detail about the Lows, but just enough to ascertain that they were, indeed, low.

Did any of you see how some hip-hop stars are trying to keep kids out of jail? By teaching them Chess. Why? To show them that one more second, one more moment to think can keep you from making a damaging decision. As I said in another topic about matchups. "Whoa, a rushed decision is worse than an outdated one, cowboy."

People are change their character choices later on if they feel like it. Also, the Tier List is pretty accurate at the moment in regards to the best characters in the game, so there will only be a few changes in that. So the rushed choice here would be switching from a character deemed unviable to another one only to later have that character deemed viable/quasi-viable? You can still switch back.

EDIT: Yeah, not paying any attention to the low tiers will give them the advantages. We don't worry enough to know about them, but they will know everything about us, and turn out to be the better Smashers in the end.

Not really. They only have the advantage the first few times they face good people. Then the good people will adapt. Because Low Tiers are Low Tiers for a reason. They are bad (or just quasi-bad). If they get the upper hand because of the "Surprise!"-factor, then they might win a few sets.

But as time goes on, the good players will adapt, learn the new tricks and find ways around it. It's only when no good workarounds can be found that tactics work and if you have working tactics with limited workarounds, which allows you to win big at tournaments, your character isn't really Low Tier.

So, no, ignoring Low Tiers will not make the Low Tier players turn out to be better Smashers in the end. It will only give them a temporary upper hand against players who have little insight into the match-ups.

 

[Irsic]

lol, I love how black and white the low tier discussion is.

They're bad! lol! Meta-Knight wins!

It's as if the people behind the character weren't human. Low tier characters just require secondaries to pick off their bad matchups. Me? I just use Diddy Kong vs. Marth and Game & Watch. Whatever.

 

[Hive]

look, there's nothing wrong with maining low or middle tier imo. sure they don't have as much chance of getting as far as other characters, but if winning as much as you can is the ONLY concern people have in brawl then no one can legitimitaley pick anyone other than metaknight as a main. its not even really debatable. mk has the highest chances of winning, and most advantaged matchups by far, you can't argue that any other characters are really as consistently viable (even high tier). And since viability is based off of the chances someone is going to win mk is the only reasonable choice (sure other characters can win here and there, but seriously mk is the most logical by far, which is reflected in the tier list). All I'm saying is that you can't give people a hard time for using a low or middle tier character based on the sole reason that they are "bad" bc you have to look at other factors in why people play. if character selection was based on only how good or bad a character is, i mean, i don't see how you could pick anyone else...

edit: even if you use secondaries for your character it would still make more sense to main mk and secondary, say, ddd

but really the point i want to make is maining low/middle/high even top tiers are just FUN for people despite being put at an overall disadvantage... and you know, that's OK. it helps make the game more interesting even if it makes it less balanced.

 

[Sukai]

Low Tiers--

--are simply just not cut out for it.

Sure, there is a possible chance of victory, but not all too great against the chances of a high tier character, overall, the tier list isn't 100% based on tournament viability, but distinct character traits vs one another.
If a Captain Falcon wins a tournament, despite not being viable to win one, thats not going to change his placement very much, because match up summaries are still taken into consideration, defying the odds only proves that he deserves his placement more, seeing the the odds are very much so against him, in contrast to Marth, Snake, Meta Knight, Falco, etc.
Although defying the odds, may eventually turn into the odds being taken into another analysis on how much is against his character, if many people can defy the odds, then maybe the odds aren't what they seem to be, maybe Falcon has a better chance, abiet slight, at winning a tournament.

Of course, this is all theoretical babble, for all we know, Falcon may not have any chance.

But this is what is taken into consideration when determining tier placements.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I held this in long enough and seeing the fool(s) who made those 2 post.....

Idiotic things I ever heard from this annoying site. The others don't matter, like wtf?. Ok then, if a Player faces a character that does not matter in tournament and loses to it I wonder why. Oh I know, cause they don't give a crap about them. and don't know about them nether. No experience. Did not know what they were able to do, etc. Then they make the johns on why they lost to them.

Also, since people are always on high tiers azzes cause, those are that matter, how the hell are they even gonna make a legit tier list when they don't know 2 ****s about the others. How many pros we have with meta and snake? Now how many we have with characters like Yoshi, jiggz, Link, etc. They don't have enough people with a big brain on these characters in there to make a legit tier list? It's all based on people's BS

"What, Peach can't kill and easy to kill, she is trash, fawk her"

" Link gets gimped so easy cause his recovery sucks. so knowing this, he is garbage, can't do anything"

I can go on like this with others. thing is most of the people who play buttride high tiers. Thus for mid and low tiers, not enough people to talk about thier main that they know in and out. SBR does not have enough Pro-Am/Pro experience with all these characters. Most of them don't even know 2 ****s about these characters to begin with. Like the first list I saw. How the hell you put bowser over Peach and I think Luigi? Seriously now, lets be for real with this crap.

The problem is, people mostly care about just winning. and for this, will bias alot of stuff.People bias Peach and people who I played in tournament against their snake and meta. Then wondering why are the games so close or why they lost. Thus make a john to feel good about themselves. The hell with the excuses. They did not know that Peach can actually go even and give the beats to snake and meta. "But oh wait, Peach is mid tier (to what SBR says) How can she go even with high tiers like that and beat them it's PEACH, LOL" Thats your average typical comment from people of brawl. The reason you did not think this could happen cause you never seen or sat down with a Peach (or any character in this situation) that knows the matchups, knows thier character in and out, and knows wtf they are doing.

Anyone can flame me on this post all they want, even the SBR. Most people there don't give a **** and are full of BS. And those 2 post proof it. As time passes in the world of brawl, the community annoys me more with it's ignorance.

 

[Sky`]

I don't know, To me, Peach is fun. That hoe is D tier, and she isn't going to win me a regional. It all comes down to this, What's more fun? Playing Peach? Or Winning?

I love competitive gaming. Everybody always asks me, Why do I take games so seriously? (Back in Melee, I'd 4 stock mah friends, xD), It's because that competitive edge that this game gives is just great. It's just like any sport. It's fun to play, but it's even more fun being the best, right?

So playing this game to it's highest degree is ultimately what is fun for me. But then I thought, what if I could have my cake, and eat it too? what if I could Main peach, and still win tournaments? Wouldn't that be nice?

Well, now, I can. with a Sub, I'm able to support my Low tier, rep her to the highest degree, and still place high at tournaments, and even win occasionally. Sure, with Kirby as my sub, I'd have to work harder, but it's a realistic goal to place first at a Regional with Kirby/Peach than with just Peach Alone.

 

[Sky`]

I held this in long enough and seeing the fool(s) who made those 2 post.....

Idiotic things I ever heard from this annoying site. The others don't matter, like wtf?. Ok then, if a Player faces a character that does not matter in tournament and loses to it I wonder why. Oh I know, cause they don't give a crap about them. and don't know about them nether. No experience. Did not know what they were able to do, etc. Then they make the johns on why they lost to them.

Also, since people are always on high tiers azzes cause, those are that matter, how the hell are they even gonna make a legit tier list when they don't know 2 ****s about the others. How many pros we have with meta and snake? Now how many we have with characters like Yoshi, jiggz, Link, etc. They don't have enough people with a big brain on these characters in there to make a legit tier list? It's all based on people's BS

"What, Peach can't kill and easy to kill, she is trash, fawk her"

" Link gets gimped so easy cause his recovery sucks. so knowing this, he is garbage, can't do anything"

I can go on like this with others. thing is most of the people who play buttride high tiers. Thus for mid and low tiers, not enough people to talk about thier main that they know in and out. SBR does not have enough Pro-Am/Pro experience with all these characters. Most of them don't even know 2 ****s about these characters to begin with. Like the first list I saw. How the hell you put bowser over Peach and I think Luigi? Seriously now, lets be for real with this crap.

The problem is, people mostly care about just winning. and for this, will bias alot of stuff.People bias Peach and people who I played in tournament against their snake and meta. Then wondering why are the games so close or why they lost. Thus make a john to feel good about themselves. The hell with the excuses. They did not know that Peach can actually go even and give the beats to snake and meta. "But oh wait, Peach is mid tier (to what SBR says) How can she go even with high tiers like that and beat them it's PEACH, LOL" Thats your average typical comment from people of brawl. The reason you did not think this could happen cause you never seen or sat down with a Peach (or any character in this situation) that knows the matchups, knows thier character in and out, and knows wtf they are doing.

Anyone can flame me on this post all they want, even the SBR. Most people there don't give a **** and are full of BS. And those 2 post proof it. As time passes in the world of brawl, the community annoys me more with it's ignorance.

I am in no way attacking your character Dark Pch, but this line is a clear contradiction. For if this statement was true, you would be annoyed with yourself to a very high degree.

You see, you still believe that Peach, alone, is a viable tournament option for a Regional, at which she can subsist all the way to the top. Not knowing your characters limits is a clear indication of Ignorance. Though I agree that she is underrated, and many people try to pick and chew at her obvious weakpoints with out really knowing how to play her, she is in no way anything higher than C tier, given her weaknesses that are so easily exploited. As a Peach main, who's been to at least one tournament, every weekend since brawl came out, (Come to think of it, that's true, xD), and on occasion, 3 in one weekend, (Friday - Sunday) I can safely say that I know Peach like the back of my hand. Not saying you don't, but we differ in the aspect of realism.

And it makes me wonder. Do you think that Peach is a viable tournament character? Or are you thinking of a viable tournament player, rather than the character?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I am in no way attacking your character Dark Pch, but this line is a clear contradiction. For if this statement was true, you would be annoyed with yourself to a very high degree.

You see, you still believe that Peach, alone, is a viable tournament option for a Regional, at which she can subsist all the way to the top. Not knowing your characters limits is a clear indication of Ignorance. Though I agree that she is underrated, and many people try to pick and chew at her obvious weakpoints with out really knowing how to play her, she is in no way anything higher than C tier, given her weaknesses that are so easily exploited. As a Peach main, who's been to at least one tournament, every weekend since brawl came out, (Come to think of it, that's true, xD), and on occasion, 3 in one weekend, (Friday - Sunday) I can safely say that I know Peach like the back of my hand. Not saying you don't, but we differ in the aspect of realism.

And it makes me wonder. Do you think that Peach is a viable tournament character? Or are you thinking of a viable tournament player, rather than the character?

Please stop assuming and ask. This had nothing to do with Peach or you. seriously ask and don't think you know it all from me. This is an example of why this site is annoying.

 

[Yuna]

Holy crap, it's the epic showdown between Sky` and Dark.pch I've been waiting for ever since Sky` came out of the closet as a non-Peachdeloon (Peach player who isn't delusional about her viability... or a loon)!

It's the battle of insight, knowledge, logic and articulation vs. ... something of the century!

 

[Dark.Pch]

Holy crap, it's the epic showdown between Sky` and Dark.pch I've been waiting ever since Sky` came out of the closet as a non-Peachdeloon (Peach player who isn't delusional about her viability)!

It's the battle of insight, knowledge, logic and articulation vs. ... something of the century!

Yea....Not happening Yuna.

 

[Geist]

words

From an early interpretation of tier lists, you're basically right. But there are reasons characters like metaknight excel earlier like they do. They either have broken/effective tactics that other characters don't have, which usually ends up with them sinking to the bottom of the tiers.
There is obviously bias, though how much there is is immeasurable because the tier list is so early in development. Even though a lot of characters aren't studies and developed as much as the next, after a few years it becomes irrelevant anyways, because they'll be thoroughly studied by then and still won't have what it takes to be any higher than garbage.

 

[Yuna]

Yea....Not happening Yuna.

Are you recanting your belief that Peach is viable? Sky`asked you a legitimate question. I'm repeating that question. Please tell us your views on Peach's viability.

 

[Dark.Pch]

From an early interpretation of tier lists, you're basically right. But there are reasons characters like metaknight excel earlier like they do. They either have broken/effective tactics that other characters don't have, which usually ends up with them sinking to the bottom of the tiers.
There is obviously bias, though how much there is is immeasurable because the tier list is so early in development. Even though a lot of characters aren't studies and developed as much as the next, after a few years it becomes irrelevant anyways, because they'll be thoroughly studied by then and still won't have what it takes to be any higher than garbage.

With all the BS that meta has, that does not mean "Say lets focus on him ore and **** the others" That's just stupid. People don't explore stuff that other characters can do. Thus full of BS. Also as I said before, people buttride high tiers too much, and not evnough work or attention is being paid to the other characters, thus (Look at the 2 idiotic post on the first page)

Not enough pros or good players behind these other characters to give legit facts. And Sadly since people mostly play to win. They won't use this characters against pro metas, Snake, etc. And this won't give them a heads on understanding of how the match up really is at high levels of play. I do this with my main. M2K or who the hell you are. idc, I'm using Peach. and if I lose the fight I get to see just how tuff it is good things that happened in the match up and bad things. Also my brain, skills, mental reaction and all for Peach is greatly tested. Maybe next time I'll do better and better till I win. and if not. I but my character to the ultimate test and got a full understanding of how this character does Vs this. This is one of the main reason I don't counterpick characters in tournaments. it helps me understand just what the deal is and get great experience.

Edit- Yuna, next post i'll get to you on that, even though this thread is not about her in general.......ugh.....

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

One of these days, I am actually going to drop a bomb on Peach stuff like this that gets into these threads

Enough of Peach. I'm going to be honest here - I would like to think Peach could win a major tourney but 1. After taking everything into account, I don't think it will happen and 2. I have very little tourney knowledge anyway so it wouldn't be right for me to pass judgement on the subject because I lack a full understanding

If someone wants to prove that Peach can win tournaments, go out there and do it. I'd love to give it a go myself but I can't

Anyway, I've said what I think about this whole business before several times. Go figure

 

[Dark.Pch]

This is not even about Peach. Sky brought it up and Now Yuna is hyping it up.

 

[Samuelson]

Go Sky' go....

Peach can't win big tourney's by herself. There is only a handful of characters that can actually win big tourney's by themselves actually.

 

[Yuna]

This is not even about Peach. Sky brought it up and Now Yuna is hyping it up.

You are well-known for tooting Peach's horn and claiming she's tournament viable and capable of winning (major) tournaments. We're simply asking you if you still hold that belief. It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question. Please answer it.

 

[Hive]

are we really bringing this up again? T.T

on another note, dark peach, i liked your response to the thread.

 

[BentoBox]

I don't know, To me, Peach is fun. That hoe is D tier, and she isn't going to win me a regional. It all comes down to this, What's more fun? Playing Peach? Or Winning?

I love competitive gaming. Everybody always asks me, Why do I take games so seriously? (Back in Melee, I'd 4 stock mah friends, xD), It's because that competitive edge that this game gives is just great. It's just like any sport. It's fun to play, but it's even more fun being the best, right?

So playing this game to it's highest degree is ultimately what is fun for me. But then I thought, what if I could have my cake, and eat it too? what if I could Main peach, and still win tournaments? Wouldn't that be nice?

Well, now, I can. with a Sub, I'm able to support my Low tier, rep her to the highest degree, and still place high at tournaments, and even win occasionally. Sure, with Kirby as my sub, I'd have to work harder, but it's a realistic goal to place first at a Regional with Kirby/Peach than with just Peach Alone.

Kirby doesn't cover your GW/Marth/Snake matchups D:. Rainbow Cruise or not, you're still at a disadvantage with such a sub... Aside from the occasional Falco, what impossible matchup is it that you wish to overcome by CPing as kirby? MK? Pick up ZSS if you're serious about winning a regional.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You are well-known for tooting Peach's horn and claiming she's tournament viable and capable of winning (major) tournaments. We're simply asking you if you still hold that belief. It's a simple "Yes" or "No" question. Please answer it.

I did no such thing here. This time YOU are asking for it. I'm gonna end this as "yes I still do" What I do and think should not matter to you or anyone else. Just worry about yourselves.

are we really bringing this up again? T.T

on another note, dark peach, i liked your response to the thread.

Thanks.

 

[Natch]

Kirby doesn't cover your GW/Marth/Snake matchups D:. Rainbow Cruise or not, you're still at a disadvantage with such a sub... Aside from the occasional Falco, what impossible matchup is it that you wish to overcome by CPing as kirby? MK? Pick up ZSS if you're serious about winning a regional.

>_>

I should note that if a Kirby knows how to use Snake's Grenades, he can suck Snake up and can air-camp him+plank with 'Nades for the whole match. It really changes the matchup.

Kirby can handle Marth, sorta. Bair and Ftilt(!) have priority. Ftilt aimed upwards can even deal with SH Fairs approaches.

 

[Hive]

hmm sky, imo if you were to pick two characters only for the sake of winning ("to its highest degree"), mk and ddd would have to the most sensical combination since they together have the most advantaged matchups and no weak points (ddd has ridiculous advantages on people, mk can cover all of his weak points and more...)...
peach and kirby are kwl, but probably not as complimentary as mk and ddd, or even peach and mk imo. However, its still kwl that you main those two people regardless ^^

 

[BentoBox]

>_>

I should note that if a Kirby knows how to use Snake's Grenades, he can suck Snake up and can air-camp him+plank with 'Nades for the whole match. It really changes the matchup.

Kirby can handle Marth, sorta. Bair and Ftilt(!) have priority. Ftilt aimed upwards can even deal with SH Fairs approaches.

Peach goes 60:40 against snake and marth, supposedly. I was led to believe that Kirby had the very same odds against said characters. T/F?

 

[Natch]

Peach goes 60:40 against snake and marth, supposedly. I was led to believe that Kirby had the very same odds against said characters. T/F?

It's more like the oppisite actually.

 

[Yuna]

I did no such thing here.

You are well known for tooting her supposed prowess in general. I never said you did it in this specific sub-forum.

I'm gonna end this as "yes I still do" What I do and think should not matter to you or anyone else. Just worry about yourselves.

It was a perfectly legit question. We were merely curious. And instead of answering the simple question, you tried to writhe your way out of it. I don't want another "Peach is greatz0r" debate, so I won't even ask you to substantiate that claim.

I'll leave that up to Sky`.

Peach goes 60:40 against snake and marth, supposedly. I was led to believe that Kirby had the very same odds against said characters. T/F?

Are you aware of the fact that the majority of Peach's match-up ratios as seen in the Peach sub-forum are based at least partially on Dark.pch's claims?

 

[Geist]

Not enough pros or good players behind these other characters to give legit facts. And Sadly since people mostly play to win. They won't use this characters against pro metas, Snake, etc. And this won't give them a heads on understanding of how the match up really is at high levels of play. I do this with my main. M2K or who the hell you are. idc, I'm using Peach. and if I lose the fight I get to see just how tuff it is good things that happened in the match up and bad things. Also my brain, skills, mental reaction and all for Peach is greatly tested. Maybe next time I'll do better and better till I win. and if not. I but my character to the ultimate test and got a full understanding of how this character does Vs this. This is one of the main reason I don't counterpick characters in tournaments. it helps me understand just what the deal is and get great experience.

I know exactly what you're talking about. A character's metagame allows them to rise up, and all of the sudden people play them more, resulting in the character's metagame to accelerate much faster than anyone else's, ie - metaknight.
Over the years, the true potential of a character will come into focus, may it be better or worse than originally thought. It's just as much expected from a game early in its metagame to become extremely biased towards one character.

I'd prefer it if people were as concerned with matchups that pose a disadvantage to their character as they are with ones they do well on. Like you said, it's good to know how everything breaks down.

The point where I get frustrated is when people piggyback on a high tier to counterpick. Example - I beat person A's whatever with ROB, so they pick metaknight. That's actually pretty damaging experience-wise, even if it's playing technically to win.
I don't, however, think that's it's necessarily bad to have a whole bandwagon maining one character. It's annoying to see and play against a character who's absolutely everywhere, but it gives the people who main the other characters that much more experience when dealing with them.

 

[|RK|]

Um, let's end this fast. The tier list can change. If you don't like it, ignore it. Peach can indeed win a regional or even national on her own, if the player tries hard enough. Screw the "anime-effect" 'cause this isn't it. Hard work does pay off in the real world, no matter what anyone else says.

Tl;dr? Any character can win anything, and the tier list is never absolute, merely a representation of the relationship of current player ability to currently observed potential of characters.

 

[BentoBox]

Are you aware of the fact that the majority of Peach's match-up ratios as seen in the Peach sub-forum are based at least partially on Dark.pch's claims?

They're based partially off everyone that contributes to the thread, d.peach being no exception, yes. Your point?

It's more like the oppisite actually.

The opposite being? Kirby has a 6:4 advantage over both Marth and Snake?

 

[Yuna]

They're based partially off everyone that contributes to the thread, d.peach being no exception, yes. Your point?

Dark.pch, being well known and doing quite well for himself in tournaments, is more respected than the generic Peach. If someone who isn't one of the best Peach players in the United States says that Peach is at a disadvantage against X-character and Dark.pch claims the opposite, who do you think the ignorant masses will believe?

For several match-ups, Dark.pch's posts are among one of very, very few quoted. There are some match-ups where Dark.pch is among one of only two people quoted for the match-up ratio for instance. I was not there for the discussions themselves, but it's obvious that his assessments were used to a great extent when compiling the match-up ratios.

 

[Royale]

Dark.pch, being well known and doing quite well for himself in tournaments, is more respected than the generic Peach. If someone who isn't one of the best Peach players in the United States says that Peach is at a disadvantage against X-character and Dark.pch claims the opposite, who do you think the ignorant masses will believe?

For several match-ups, Dark.pch's posts are among one of very, very few quoted. There are some match-ups where Dark.pch is among one of only two people quoted for the match-up ratio for instance. I was not there for the discussions themselves, but it's obvious that his assessments were used to a great extent when compiling the match-up ratios.

One sided opinions are horribly bad, for a number of reasons.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You are well known for tooting her supposed prowess in general. I never said you did it in this specific sub-forum.


It was a perfectly legit question. We were merely curious. And instead of answering the simple question, you tried to writhe your way out of it. I don't want another "Peach is greatz0r" debate, so I won't even ask you to substantiate that claim.

I'll leave that up to Sky`.


Are you aware of the fact that the majority of Peach's match-up ratios as seen in the Peach sub-forum are based at least partially on Dark.pch's claims?

Dark.pch, being well known and doing quite well for himself in tournaments, is more respected than the generic Peach. If someone who isn't one of the best Peach players in the United States says that Peach is at a disadvantage against X-character and Dark.pch claims the opposite, who do you think the ignorant masses will believe?

For several match-ups, Dark.pch's posts are among one of very, very few quoted. There are some match-ups where Dark.pch is among one of only two people quoted for the match-up ratio for instance. I was not there for the discussions themselves, but it's obvious that his assessments were used to a great extent when compiling the match-up ratios.

Wait what? You are sounding like I say she has the advantage over these losers. First off with Peach:

40-60 Marth
40-60 Snake (but I am seriously starting to think it is even)
40-60 Meta

Now show me here where I am giving off BS?

 

[Yuna]

Wait what? You are sounding like I say she has the advantage over these losers. First off with Peach:

40-60 Marth
40-60 Snake (but I am seriously starting to think it is even)
40-60 Meta

Now show me here where I am giving off BS?

And this rant is based in what exactly? I didn't mention a single character, yet you go off claiming I sound as if I'm stating that you're claiming that Peach has the advantage against Marth, Snake and Meta Knight.

I am merely stating that your views on Peach's prowess has obviously had a great impact on the Peach matchup ratio thread.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Yuna, if you have a problem with the way our match ups work then discuss it with me

The match up thread is currently being re done. I personally find it quite insulting that you assume everything we base everything off one person and that what Dark.Pch says is law and order and that the match ups are based entirely off his opinion. That is not the way things work at the Peach Boards. Provided they aren't complete rubbish, all views on a match up are taken into account. We get a variety of different people who visit our board when discussing their character to give their views on the match up. Dark's posts are used because some of them have information in that could provide to be useful

 

[Yuna]

The match up thread is currently being re done. I personally find it quite insulting that you assume everything we base everything off one person and that what Dark.Pch says is law and order and that the match ups are based entirely off his opinion.l

When did I say any of this?! When?! Quotes or apologize.

 

[Dark.Pch]

And this rant is based in what exactly? I didn't mention a single character, yet you go off claiming I sound as if I'm stating that you're claiming that Peach has the advantage against Marth, Snake and Meta Knight.

I am merely stating that your views on Peach's prowess has obviously had a great impact on the Peach matchup ratio thread.

Easy there boy. don't assume as you think I am, that is not a rant. I show no emotions on the net I don't use "lol" or faces, etc. Don't think you know how I feel when I post.

I said:

"Wait what? You are sounding like I say she has the advantage over these losers. First off with Peach:"

Never said that is what you ment.

And last, what I thought on match ups never affect the Peach boards cause most were against it, and even till this day they are. some think Falco has the advantage over Peach and I keep telling them so many times he does not. All worried about lasers and said simple ways to tell with them. I have beaten Smart campy falcos, campy falcos and good all around falco's in tournaments. With all of this, they still think he has the advantage. so no, what I say does not leave an impact on match-ups in there.

 

[Cioran]

Peach > Thread

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

True, you didn't say that and I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions like that. That's my bad - I apologise Yuna. I've been quite tense lately and whilst I shouldn't be making up excuses, it was wrong of me to jump the gun like that

I would like to make it clear however that our match ups are not based solely upon Dark.Pch's or anyone elses views incase there is any mis understanding about that unless they have a seriously deep understanding

Yes, on some of the match ups only Dark and someone else is quoted but I don't see the problem with that. If the information is good, I don't see the problem with it being there. Like I said, the thread is being done up. I hope you at least read Dark's quotes

 

[Yuna]

"Wait what? You are sounding like I say she has the advantage over these losers. First off with Peach:"

1) I didn't sound like it at all. I never accused you of saying anything specific.
2) I didn't mention a single character, yet you yapped about three.

 

[Natch]

They're based partially off everyone that contributes to the thread, d.peach being no exception, yes. Your point?



The opposite being? Kirby has a 6:4 advantage over both Marth and Snake?

No...

Peach goes 60:40 against snake and marth, supposedly. I was led to believe that Kirby had the very same odds against said characters. T/F?

Kirby has a 4:6 against Snake and Marth, not the other way around.

 

[Hive]

When did I say any of this?! When?! Quotes or apologize.

Are you aware of the fact that the majority of Peach's match-up ratios as seen in the Peach sub-forum are based at least partially on Dark.pch's claims?

they're based partially off everyone that contributes to the thread, d.peach being no exception, yes. Your point?

If someone who isn't one of the best Peach players in the United States says that Peach is at a disadvantage against X-character and Dark.pch claims the opposite, who do you think the ignorant masses will believe?

For several match-ups, Dark.pch's posts are among one of very, very few quoted. There are some match-ups where Dark.pch is among one of only two people quoted for the match-up ratio for instance. I was not there for the discussions themselves, but it's obvious that his assessments were used to a great extent when compiling the match-up ratios.

__________________
so basically just saying that
-dark peach is one of the only people on peach boards that's listened to and that people don't respect other opinions
-The peach boards are filled with "ignorant masses" that only believe things bc dark peach says them.
-you weren't even thre for the discussions but your pretty justified in making assumptions about them.

i think rickerdy-doo-da-day was pretted justified in taking that as an insult....

however->

Now is all this Peach stuff done and get to what really matters in here

i agree with this, this subject is irrelevant, and off topic. there's no point taking this further, there is nothing positive to gain.