Low Tiers and The Tournament Scene

[Dark.Pch]

1)You sound like it to me, thus I said that to see what you really ment. This is better than saying that is what you ment and getting on for you like that.

2) I brought out three to say that what I mean and say don't affect anything as much as you think in the Peach match ups. Thus my example with Falco.

Now is all this Peach stuff done and get to what really matters in here?

 

[Deleted member]

You are well known for tooting her supposed prowess in general. I never said you did it in this specific sub-forum.

Peach is good as ****.

 

[|RK|]

Y'know, Peach CAN beat high tiers like MK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ8duYDp9Eo&feature=related

 

[Bowser King]

This really didn't need it's own thread >_>

I agree with this.

If you disagree with the opinion's of a mod, you don't need to make a whole thread on it.

If that were true then many people would have made threads because they disagree with X person on X character >_>

-Bowser King

 

[risemix]

I agree, the game would be more fun if everyone just played Meta Knight. Also, Fox Only/No Items/Final Destination was a great way to play Melee all the time and Zero Suit Samus is D-Tier.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I agree, the game would be more fun if everyone just played Meta Knight.

You do know that more than 60 % of the community play meta right?

 

[$haDy]

You do know that more than 60 % of the community play meta right?

Thats a pretty big exaggeration

 

[|RK|]

Quite. And it wouldn't be more fun, it'd be stupid.

 

[Cioran]

He was being sarcastic methinks.


:x

 

[Melomaniacal]

Sure as hell feels like 60% in Jersey.

 

[Dark.Pch]

actually I was being serious. Tournaments speak for themselves.

Also N.J is a high tier state, they mostly care about winning. Nothing but high tiers you see from them.

 

[$haDy]

Yuna was right though it would be an interesting debate to see 2 knowledgable peach mains discuss if she is a viable character though.

 

[brinboy789]

actually I was being serious. Tournaments speak for themselves.

Also N.J is a high tier state, they mostly care about winning. Nothing but high tiers you see from them.

MK is @ 20% of all tourneys right now. if 60% of all players used MK...

 

[Sky`]

Um, let's end this fast. The tier list can change. If you don't like it, ignore it. Peach can indeed win a regional or even national on her own, if the player tries hard enough. Screw the "anime-effect" 'cause this isn't it. Hard work does pay off in the real world, no matter what anyone else says.

Tl;dr? Any character can win anything, and the tier list is never absolute, merely a representation of the relationship of current player ability to currently observed potential of characters.

It's like... a walking contradiction.
Because if you can't accept your limits, you're an Anime kid.
Plain and simple.

 

[BentoBox]

No...



Kirby has a 4:6 against Snake and Marth, not the other way around.

... by telling Sky that picking up Kirby won't solve his Marth/GW/Snake issues, you could easily have deduced that 6:4 meant that Peach lost to all three of them, ratios comparable to Kirby's against the same characters... I don't get you ._.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Yuna was right though it would be an interesting debate to see 2 knowledgable peach mains discuss if she is a viable character though.

She is, I been through too many debates about this, not just on smash boards but other sites.

MK is @ 20% of all tourneys right now. if 60% of all players used MK...

I'm finding that hard to believe with these tournament results.

 

[Sky`]

... by telling Sky that picking up Kirby won't solve his Marth/GW/Snake issues, you could easily have deduced that 6:4 meant that Peach lost to all three of them, ratios comparable to Kirby's against the same characters... I don't get you ._.

Well, Benty.

Peach/Kirby is viable, because The matchups betwixt Kirby and others simply fall in the category of 40-60, in which extreme spacing is needed in order to succeed.

But in peach's case, Her matchups drastically change due to the level, n stuff. A matchup that was 40-60 might turn 80-20 depending on the stage. =/

But with Kirby, to remedy my bad matchups, All I have to do is outspace the opponent, and It becomes relatively even.

My Kirby does better against Marths anyway. =D

But other than that, I can't really play an effective Zamus anyway, she doesn't fit my style. =/

 

[BentoBox]

Is Yoshi viable because he has no worse match-up than 40:60 regardless of stages?

Extreme spacing is always required at high levels~

And I can't play ZSS for crap too ;_; the only other character I enjoy playing is oli, but bleh...

 

[kackamee]

Guys...I do belive the title of this thread is "Low Tiers and The Tournament Scene" Not "Does Peach rock or notz" I do think Peach is very excellent if pleighed right and as far as i'm concerned the tier list is just
Broken>not broken I mean, I've seen plenty of low tier people beat out people who play MK/Snake and others. It really depends on player skill vs. player skill in the end. I'm not saying character choice doesn't matter, but if two players that played Snake and Gdorf, and they had the same skill, of course Snake would win. That's just a matter of fact, unless the Gdorf gets really pretty lucky. But if you have enough matchup experience and you practice harder than the other people, You can win.

 

[|RK|]

It's like... a walking contradiction.
Because if you can't accept your limits, you're an Anime kid.
Plain and simple.

Um, no it's not a contradiction. And human beings can do some sick stuff if they try. You aren't accepting limits, because you don't know where they lie. You know about Bolt right? How fast he ran? Well guess what, he has scientists refiguring how fast a human can really run. You see, spectacular things happen every day, even things believed to be beyond human limits. So you know what? You're wrong, I am not an Anime kid, I'm merely someone who believes that the human race can do well in a video game if they can in real life. It has nothing to do with anime. It's something called "willpower" look it up, it helps athletes to get better, whether or not someone believes in their so called "limits". Another thing, scientists are developing such crazy things these days, like their trying to make humans live up till 200 by killing aging cells. People thought things were crazy and impossible in the past; you're merely one of our time. It has nothing to do with anime, nothing at all.

 

[XienZo]

Honestly, I don't think the "once you go below a certain point on a tier, you will never win" is correct. I think its more of "once you go below a certain point on a tier, you'll become bald early in life from tearing your hair out against G&W"; a low tier definitely can win tourneys and everything, but its going to be more painful rather than more futile.

 

[|RK|]

Yes, it will be hard, I didn't say no. That's why so much people can't do these seemingly impossible things as soon as they want to. It takes a lot of work. Maybe even getting frame perfect studying like M2K. Y'know, at tournaments, they should have someone to the side teaching a Smash (Brawl) school. Oh, Xien, you main Olimar, right? Why?

 

[po pimpus]

I've been following this thread since my last post, and now it seems to be running back in circles. So this will probably be my last post here. In the words of a good friend of mine:

"No two players are ever on the same level of play at the same time, so using a tier-list based on two people of equal skill is almost pointless. People who use tier-lists exclusively to determine their character are cheating themselves of the full experience and learning curve it takes to be a truly top-level player."

I think back on those words from time to time, and I use that as a basis for improvement. How can anyone who claims to want to be truly outstanding at this game overlook ANY character or the players that main them? If you really are serious about being the best, about standing above all others, how can you arrogantly overlook even the tiniest of threats?

"An expert with a rock can beat a novice with a knife."

In closing, I'll say this:

Play the character that you are most comfortable with, be it Meta-Knight or Captain Falcon, but be aware that even the best(or worst) of characters have inherent strengths and weakness that can and will be exploited at higher levels.

Don't limit yourself by playing as only one character. Main whomever you feel, but be willing to at least try other characters and styles. Be knowledgeable and sensible enough to recognize your(and your character's) limitations. Surpass them if you can, but be wise enough to recognize when you can't and learn to get around them either via secondaries or mixing up your strategies.

Keep repping those low-tiers, kids. Because the only way the tier-list is ever going to be accurate is if there are enough really smart and talented players willing to squeeze every drop of potential out of those "weaker" characters.

 

[Cioran]

Unfortunately, tournament results speak louder than idealistic thought excercises.

 

[|RK|]

I've been following this thread since my last post, and now it seems to be running back in circles. So this will probably be my last post here. In the words of a good friend of mine:

"No two players are ever on the same level of play at the same time, so using a tier-list based on two people of equal skill is almost pointless. People who use tier-lists exclusively to determine their character are cheating themselves of the full experience and learning curve it takes to be a truly top-level player."

I think back on those words from time to time, and I use that as a basis for improvement. How can anyone who claims to want to be truly outstanding at this game overlook ANY character or the players that main them? If you really are serious about being the best, about standing above all others, how can you arrogantly overlook even the tiniest of threats?

"An expert with a rock can beat a novice with a knife."

In closing, I'll say this:

Play the character that you are most comfortable with, be it Meta-Knight or Captain Falcon, but be aware that even the best(or worst) of characters have inherent strengths and weakness that can and will be exploited at higher levels.

Don't limit yourself by playing as only one character. Main whomever you feel, but be willing to at least try other characters and styles. Be knowledgeable and sensible enough to recognize your(and your character's) limitations. Surpass them if you can, but be wise enough to recognize when you can't and learn to get around them either via secondaries or mixing up your strategies.

Keep repping those low-tiers, kids. Because the only way the tier-list is ever going to be accurate is if there are enough really smart and talented players willing to squeeze every drop of potential out of those "weaker" characters.

*salutes* Thank you good man.

 

[po pimpus]

Unfortunately, tournament results speak louder than idealistic thought excercises.

Exactly. Which is why I'm done preaching and am off to Shoryuken some Metas.

Peace.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Um, no it's not a contradiction. And human beings can do some sick stuff if they try. You aren't accepting limits, because you don't know where they lie. You know about Bolt right? How fast he ran? Well guess what, he has scientists refiguring how fast a human can really run. You see, spectacular things happen every day, even things believed to be beyond human limits. So you know what? You're wrong, I am not an Anime kid, I'm merely someone who believes that the human race can do well in a video game if they can in real life. It has nothing to do with anime. It's something called "willpower" look it up, it helps athletes to get better, whether or not someone believes in their so called "limits". Another thing, scientists are developing such crazy things these days, like their trying to make humans live up till 200 by killing aging cells. People thought things were crazy and impossible in the past; you're merely one of our time. It has nothing to do with anime, nothing at all.

Probably one of the most brilliant post on this site. Thus another reason I dont counter pick characters with Peach. One way or another, I will make this happen. My Character is Mid tier? Fine that all I need to know.

 

[ndayday]

Man, that is some pretty powerful stuff up there. I second the statement that that post was one of the better ones on this forum. Seriously, that is so true. You test the limits and strive to do better, and right there you already have won half the battle. Listen to that advice, Smashboards.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Those boys in the backroom need to see this and get their **** straight.

Also another good example. One name:

"Obama"

 

[sparkpro]

Um, no it's not a contradiction. And human beings can do some sick stuff if they try. You aren't accepting limits, because you don't know where they lie. You know about Bolt right? How fast he ran? Well guess what, he has scientists refiguring how fast a human can really run. You see, spectacular things happen every day, even things believed to be beyond human limits. So you know what? You're wrong, I am not an Anime kid, I'm merely someone who believes that the human race can do well in a video game if they can in real life. It has nothing to do with anime. It's something called "willpower" look it up, it helps athletes to get better, whether or not someone believes in their so called "limits". Another thing, scientists are developing such crazy things these days, like their trying to make humans live up till 200 by killing aging cells. People thought things were crazy and impossible in the past; you're merely one of our time. It has nothing to do with anime, nothing at all.

The difference between the real world and a video game is that in the real world you have all kinds of factors that can affect the way things work out and in video games we are all bound by the way the game was programmed. Not even the smartest people on the planet don't know everything about the universe or even our own bodies so from here the skies the limit. In a video game however, there is only so much you can do depending on the way the game is built. Sure, having a lot of willpower will help you out but what happens when the guy using your character's worse match up has the same amount or more willpower than you? If it's truly a bad match up then it will show and you may have to go with a character better suited for the job . Doesn't have to be a high tier character just somebody with a better match up.

 

[Tenki]

Word 2:
Brock.

The difference between the real world and a video game is that in the real world you have all kinds of factors that can affect the way things work out and in video games we are all bound by the way the game was programmed. Not even the smartest people on the planet don't know everything about the universe or even our own bodies so from here the skies the limit. In a video game however, there is only so much you can do depending on the way the game is built. Sure, having a lot of willpower will help you out but what happens when the guy using your character's worse match up has the same amount or more willpower than you? If it's truly a bad match up then it will show and you may have to go with a character better suited for the job . Doesn't have to be a high tier character just somebody with a better match up.

Ah, but your opponent still adds a human element to the game, and inevitably, they mess up.

Every hit landed is the opponent messing up. You can have willpower (lol ?? power of feelings) but more importantly, if you have the player skill to outread your opponent, you'll land hits.

The argument when people say player skill can overcome matchups is that, somehow, it's possible to use a worse character and still capitalize on human mistakes to win.

Unfortunately, tournament results speak louder than idealistic thought excercises.

Well, tournament wins in and of themselves don't really mean too much.


I've brought it up a few times in the past whenever people have tried to argue about the correctness of low tier characters and brought up the "omg we need to win more tournaments" power speech.

It's not winning more tournaments, it's who you play in the tournaments.

I mean hey, I've been in and gotten first in 2 Brawl tournaments myself going all Sonic, but there weren't really any people with any skill reputation there. Well, there was one guy who has a reputation of sorts in Atlantic South, but that was for Melee, not Brawl. My tournament results don't really mean anything.

Espy (Puffball64) was able to run into a few SBR members at Final Smash V with many other notable members, and in conjunction with others over time, has helped to give what might be a significant push in reconsidering what capabilities/ "true" weaknesses the character might have in the hands of a competent/skilled mainer. To top that off, he placed 4th out of 97 in that tournament, and allegedly could have gotten higher if it weren't for some player slips in the round where he got knocked out.

But that aside, you can be knocked out in the first round playing against the best player in your area, but if you give them trouble (eg, take them to last stock, or take someone amazing to round 2 hint:malcolmVsM2k) and show people things that they might not have seen before, then maybe the judgement on your low tier character was wrong.

------------------------

TL;DR:
Beat better players :/

 

[|RK|]

Sure, having a lot of willpower will help you out but what happens when the guy using your character's worse match up has the same amount or more willpower than you?

Then try harder than he does. They're more likely, after all, to feel more confident, than you, the lower tier mainer, who will know you're at a disadvantage, and naturally try harder.

 

[CRASHiC]

I think we should just end this thread right now, before heads start rollin'.

!!! !!!

 

[Oracle]

Then try harder than he does. They're more likely, after all, to feel more confident, than you, the lower tier mainer, who will know you're at a disadvantage, and naturally try harder.

too bad that mentality doesn't get very far.

Bottom line=Low tiers are not viable alone in tournaments because they will always be ***** in certain matchups.

for example, in melee, I play some bower. If I was Gimpyfish level, I still could not probably win tournaments because bowser is ***** by sheik, and any smart player would just choose sheik. Therefore, I could play bowser in the tourney, but I'd still have to have a secondary, probably ic's, to beat sheiks

 

[|RK|]

Well, whatever. That's why the people who focus on their character, low tier or no are the ones who win Brawls, and find the AT's everyone else who act like you^ leeches off of later, especially when that character jumps up. They don't need counterpick characters at all, but hey. Your opinion is what would keep things from changing. It's Black History Month, no? It was the people who kept saying it was gonna change that were right. As Dark.Pch said, one word: Obama. Even better for low tiers is that in Brawl there are plenty of defensive options. So, yeah, when there are crazy Peach players out there, you are going to realize the truth, one way or another. After all, twas only after these changes happen that the people started to see. Dark.Pch. Do me a favor, and prove all of these pessimists wrong. Change is coming. The low tiers will slap you around. They don't have to get "*****" in matchups. After all, there is always one thing or another you can do about another character's advantages. If there weren't, then matchups would be impossible. Except, of course, the opponent might trip, or accidentally press the wrong buttons. It's like if characters couldn't do anything about Mach Tornado. Spamming it would be useful. But they can do something about it. Some of them just haven't figured out what these things are yet. And people like you are lowering spirits. The tier list, in itself is causing more people to flock to the higher tiers, whether or not the could have potential with a lower tier and have talents in discovering that character's true potential. Instead, they flock to the high-tiers and therefore, the lower tiers are understaffed, and therefore worse off.

 

[Sky`]

Um, no it's not a contradiction. And human beings can do some sick stuff if they try. You aren't accepting limits, because you don't know where they lie.

Not knowing limits, is just not accepting the truth. Humans have limits. Tell me dear child, Can you fly? Are humans capable of flight? Well if you try hard enough, you might be able to accomplish this seemingly impossible feat. Oh wait, It's just that. Impossible. It's impossible because there are limits to things in the real world. And the reason I call you an Anime Kid? Is because in cartoons, the main character is able to overcome those Impossible odds with hard work and dedication. (Naruto, Rasengan. Think about it.) While there are some things in real life that pay off after hard work and dedication, (Weight loss, School, whatever,) there are just some things that are indiscriminate of how hard you've worked. This is one of them.

You know about Bolt right? How fast he ran? Well guess what, he has scientists refiguring how fast a human can really run. You see, spectacular things happen every day, even things believed to be beyond human limits.

Tell me, how many other humans can run close to the speed of Bolt? Go ahead and count, I'll wait. Give up? The reason there are so few, is because few people are given that edge that puts them a step above the rest of the human race. There are people with the gift of physical strength, knowledge, and other such talents. They are at a level that hard work and dedication can't reach.

So you know what? You're wrong, I am not an Anime kid, I'm merely someone who believes that the human race can do well in a video game if they can in real life. It has nothing to do with anime. It's something called "willpower" look it up, it helps athletes to get better, whether or not someone believes in their so called "limits".

There's a disconnect from Willpower and ignorance. Willpower, is having the strength and the perseverance to win a tournament. Ignorance is believing that a character with so many disadvantages can win a tournament. Do you really think that Link will win a major tournament? Really? I bet you one million dollars that he won't. For five years. Go ahead, keep me to it. Or become an Anime kid and, "Prove me wrong, Oniii-channnn."

Another thing, scientists are developing such crazy things these days, like their trying to make humans live up till 200 by killing aging cells. People thought things were crazy and impossible in the past; you're merely one of our time. It has nothing to do with anime, nothing at all.

You need to honestly stop listening to the media, and believing everything you read on the internet. The media is over exaggerating things like that,
to captivate people like you, who'd break a five for the latest magazine that has this story in it. And in that case, scientists are genetically altering humans. Maybe if scientists did that to a gamer, he could- Oh wait. What you fail to realize is Real life =/= Video Games. So there's a portion of you that go into the character you play, but you've also got to realize the character's limits. As in, It's you and your character. If one of you lack the potential to win, you will both fail. Doesn't matter how much of a genius you are, If you play a non viable tournament character in tournament alone, you're destined to fail.

Well, whatever. That's why the people who focus on their character, low tier or no are the ones who win Brawls, and find the AT's everyone else who act like you^ leeches off of later, especially when that character jumps up. They don't need counterpick characters at all, but hey. Your opinion is what would keep things from changing.

Really? Lets reference Gimpy. Usually Gimpy is used to argue for you, but I'm going to use him to argue against you. Gimpy is very very good, we know this. But... did he ever win major tournaments? Oh! I think not. Why? Because Bowser is Bad. And Bad characters don't win tournament. Not now, not ever. Especially if the game is unbalanced, much like Melee/Brawl are. Find me somebody, who's won a major tournament, with a character D tier or below, by themselves, no counterpicks/subs, and I'll not speak of this again. Tangible proof, or don't bring this point into question.

It's Black History Month, no? It was the people who kept saying it was gonna change that were right. As Dark.Pch said, one word: Obama.

This is not only irrelevant, but Insulting. I'm black, does this mean I'm predisposed to liking Obama? Or are you just linking the two by, "accident." Surprise, Dark.Pch isn't black. Fun fact.

Even better for low tiers is that in Brawl there are plenty of defensive options. So, yeah, when there are crazy Peach players out there, you are going to realize the truth, one way or another.

I happen to be one of those crazy Peach players. I've beaten the three best ROBs in the United States, N4N3RZ, all in tournament. Fiction and I have recently won a regional in Teams, beating teams like MogX and TKD, DEHF and Champ, And I intend to place well this weekend at a regoinal. I've got extensive knowledge of my character, And I've attended at least one tournament, every weekend of every month, since brawl came out. This game is what I really like doing. As a peach player, I'm here to tell you, that Peach winning alone is impossible. But if you want to be splitting hairs, let me put it this way. It is improbable to the highest Degree for her to win a regional without a sub. The DK vs DDD matchup isn't 0-100. It's maybe 10-90 in DDD's favor. do you really think that with Hard work and dedication, a DK could beat a Pro DDD? Didn't think so. My Point? There comes a point, where the improbability rounds off to an impossibility.
Peach suffers from too many disadvantages on too many different levels for her to be completely viable. While she's underrated now, she's totally not B tier or anything of the sort.

After all, twas only after these changes happen that the people started to see. Dark.Pch. Do me a favor, and prove all of these pessimists wrong. Change is coming. The low tiers will slap you around. They don't have to get "*****" in matchups. After all, there is always one thing or another you can do about another character's advantages. If there weren't, then matchups would be impossible.

"Gee whizz Onii-channnn! I'll prove everybody wrong, despite my characters bad matchups!!! You'll see!"Anime Effect. I invented it, I should know it when I see it.

Except, of course, the opponent might trip, or accidentally press the wrong buttons. It's like if characters couldn't do anything about Mach Tornado. Spamming it would be useful. But they can do something about it. Some of them just haven't figured out what these things are yet. And people like you are lowering spirits.

Lowering spirits? Or just Bringing truth here? Ehehe, not sure.

The tier list, in itself is causing more people to flock to the higher tiers, whether or not the could have potential with a lower tier and have talents in discovering that character's true potential. Instead, they flock to the high-tiers and therefore, the lower tiers are understaffed, and therefore worse off.

I'm not flocking to any high tier. I still main Peach. But unlike many of the other players that play this game, I've accepted that Peach can't do it alone. I still didn't flock to high tiers, I picked up a sub that would cover the majority of Peaches bad matchups. That sub is Kirby, and that team is very Viable in tournament.

Tl;dr? And if this came off mean, then I'm sorry. I'm just frustrated with people that have your mindset. The fact of the matter is, you preach about you not being an anime kid, but you are. you are the very essence of that name. You refuse to accept limits, and you are beset on the idea that if you work hard enough, anybody can do anything. While I will say that the tier list isn't set in stone, (Though it's very very firm,) I will also say that characters like C-Falcon, Link, Ganon, will never see the finals in a regional if they go it alone. There are plenty more characters that won't either. But that's what makes us different. I'm a competitive player, you play casual.

You play for fun?

Well, I play to win. And that to me is the most fun I can have.

 

[Darth Waffles]

What can you, as a low tier character mainer, do to increase your character's level of respect in the tournament scene?
What can we, as a community, do to help the SBR form accurate tier lists with knowledge on EVERY character and not those "deemed viable?"

The above contains the original questions. I don't think we need to be looking quite so intensely, especially after Tenki pretty much summarized the right solution =\

"What can you, as a low tier character mainer, do to increase your character's level of respect in the tournament scene?"

Go beat people who DO command a high level of respect. SHOW these high-level players that your character has more potential than they think. Don't focus on small tourneys where you play people who are complete unknowns to higher-level players. At this point, most people either recognize a character's potential or not. It's far easier to convince someone of something when you can prove it. So go out to these larger tournaments and go for it. Stop trying to convince the people that you call "elitists" by writing messages in a forum. Actually PLAY them, and make sure that you (and of course your character) can impress them. If you can beat them consistently, I'm sure more people will notice.

What can we, as a community, do to help the SBR form accurate tier lists with knowledge on EVERY character and not those "deemed viable?"

Again... PLAY them rather than talk to them. I'm sure that every low tier character board who has a problem with the SBR's opinions has already tried talking about it. Guess what? With the introduction of the Tier List Version 2.0, they still didn't agree with you. As Tenki said, it's all about who you play. If you can't go to larger tournaments and play SBR members at least evenly, then they're right. Other than that, there's no use arguing about it.

 

[XienZo]

Not knowing limits, is just not accepting the truth. Humans have limits. Tell me dear child, Can you fly? Are humans capable of flight? Well if you try hard enough, you might be able to accomplish this seemingly impossible feat. Oh wait, It's just that. Impossible. It's impossible because there are limits to things in the real world. And the reason I call you an Anime Kid? Is because in cartoons, the main character is able to overcome those Impossible odds with hard work and dedication. (Naruto, Rasengan. Think about it.) While there are some things in real life that pay off after hard work and dedication, (Weight loss, School, whatever,) there are just some things that are indiscriminate of how hard you've worked. This is one of them.

Didn't they tell Da Vinci and the Wright Brothers that?

Yes, it will be hard, I didn't say no. That's why so much people can't do these seemingly impossible things as soon as they want to. It takes a lot of work. Maybe even getting frame perfect studying like M2K. Y'know, at tournaments, they should have someone to the side teaching a Smash (Brawl) school. Oh, Xien, you main Olimar, right? Why?

1. He has minions. You get to share your pain with 6 other guys, so thats good.

2. Maining him gives good perspective on preaching about perfect camping.

3. Blue gloves

4. Desynch seems to have untapped potential, so if we exploit that, its possible to smash opponents from across battlefield.

5. Even if that doesn't work out, perfect camping could pwn and put him in top tier anyway.

6. He just does so many things other characters can't. Grab people off ledges, deal 80 damage in 5 seconds, get gimped at 0 damage, the list goes on.

7. Previously, he was way lower on the tier list than he should have been, so everyone underestimated him. But then they raised him up like 7 spots.

8. No ridiculously time-consuming ATs.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Sky- I think the only anime kid here is you.

Just because you think you main can't do what others think can, you assume everyone is insane or just wishful thinking. people are actually taking the time to epereince and see if it is really possible or not. Not saying "aww its to hard, thus it can't happen" You arent doing a thing but using seconds.

Others are taking the time to actually look for an answer to the ones people are too chicken to find out or dont wanna work that hard to REALLY know the truth.

So who are you to call someone an "anime kid" when they decide to have more balls than you?

 

[Sky`]

I think the only anime kid here is you.

Just because you think you main can't do what others think can, you assume everyone is insane or just wishful thinking. people are actually taking the time to epereince and see if it is really possible or not. Not saying "aww its to hard, thus it can't happen" You arent doing a but using seconds.

Others are taking the time to actually look for an answer to the ones people are too chicken to find out or dont wanna work that hard to REALLY know the truth.

So who are you to call someone an "anime kid" when they decide to have more balls than you?

I'll say this once, and only once.

Win a Regional tournament with Peach, Alone.

Or shut your F*cking mouth.