DuskMarthWater
Dude.
Aahh..whatever. I don't care enough about Luigi to pay attention to which b move is which. That just goes to show how under appreciated he is, eh? *Winks at Tedward*
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~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~
- Thread starter Jeepy Sol
- Start date
Browny
Smash Hater
you know that saying 'dont get hit'? Try that vs luigi. Its entirely possible.
clearly something isnt balanced here when i can repeatedly 3 stock level 9 luigi with lucario, but the other way around, even when i edgehog the CPU Lucario's recovery and use jab-upb for cheap kills I only manage to win on one stock high %. Approaching lucario is practically impossible with anything except the tornado. On that note, jab/jab jab - upb IS dodgeable. all you have to do is be quick with pressing shield. my brother seemed to have no trouble shielding it every time i tried it
and luigis recovery isnt all that great. slow, linear, no SA/invincible frames. Limit his option to use the missile with an AS, give him no option but to tornado/upb in which case lucarios dair makes short work of that.
Also luigi has a severly flawed edge-get up game. His lack of a long range fair or ledge get up attack (see marth, DK etc) make is so easy to punish his ledgehop with an fsmash since he cant touch you, and of course if he shields it he will be blown way off the stage again, a nice set-up for a dair over the edge.
why people underestimate luigis ground game is beyond me. his jab and tilts are stupidly fast and unnecsarily high damaging, and all his smashes are quick + powerful. but he has no decent range on any of them. This match up is so similar to wario IMO, only remove the option for luigi to approach in any safe manner and there you go. Imagine if wario didnt have his dair or nair, how easy would the match up be then? Dont let luigi get in your face... spam the hell out of fsmash uair AS and i honestly cant see how this is even
clearly something isnt balanced here when i can repeatedly 3 stock level 9 luigi with lucario, but the other way around, even when i edgehog the CPU Lucario's recovery and use jab-upb for cheap kills I only manage to win on one stock high %. Approaching lucario is practically impossible with anything except the tornado. On that note, jab/jab jab - upb IS dodgeable. all you have to do is be quick with pressing shield. my brother seemed to have no trouble shielding it every time i tried it
and luigis recovery isnt all that great. slow, linear, no SA/invincible frames. Limit his option to use the missile with an AS, give him no option but to tornado/upb in which case lucarios dair makes short work of that.
Also luigi has a severly flawed edge-get up game. His lack of a long range fair or ledge get up attack (see marth, DK etc) make is so easy to punish his ledgehop with an fsmash since he cant touch you, and of course if he shields it he will be blown way off the stage again, a nice set-up for a dair over the edge.
why people underestimate luigis ground game is beyond me. his jab and tilts are stupidly fast and unnecsarily high damaging, and all his smashes are quick + powerful. but he has no decent range on any of them. This match up is so similar to wario IMO, only remove the option for luigi to approach in any safe manner and there you go. Imagine if wario didnt have his dair or nair, how easy would the match up be then? Dont let luigi get in your face... spam the hell out of fsmash uair AS and i honestly cant see how this is even
Dude I don't hate it...well I do if I'm playing against Luigi, but when i am Luigi its so dang fun :D
Ha. Made me lol. Its ok t2. It just proves your human :D.
You know...thats a good point. I didn't think of that. I suppose if he used d-air to recover he could try and skip the ledge then hope to get a couple jabs in there when he landed or something. But thats a really good point...I honestly can't think of a way around that for our favorite man in green...
Can he n-air after jumping off the ledge? Could he skip the ledge with down b then follow up with n-air or f-air? One thing I suppose he could do is jump off the ledge, turn around and b-air to keep Lucario away then try for the ledge. It sounds like alot but I think it could be pulled off. B-air is reliable. Wait...is it even possible to turn around after jumping/fastfalling off the ledge?
Timbers
check me out
You know aside from the CPU stuff DJBrowny's post made sense to me.
Nines~Tempest
Smash Cadet
Depends on how often you play people?
I play CPUs for like 2 rounds when I'm about to play offline somewhere, get my ROB up to speed with real life timing. Iowa is crap for tourneys, so rely on online play.
*cries*
Browny
Smash Hater
CPU puts up more of a fight than the majority of people on my FC list... meh
IceDX
Smash Ace
Thats a Really Bad thing..... i can 4 stock every lv 9 cpu
Oh yeah? Post a vid. Right now. Four stock a level nine meta knight then we'll see how good you are bud. Then after that, three stock two meta knights who are on a team, at the same time, why don't you.
People like you who brag like that piss me off. For all we know, you suck at the game.
Can we just get back on topic please and not be so boastful.
Trela
Smash Lord
You and me both Trapt. Braggers can get REALLY ANNOYING!
I practice my combos and stuff on CPU's. After that, I just look for some Brawls online.
Yeah Trapt, thats what I mean =)
I practice my combos and stuff on CPU's. After that, I just look for some Brawls online.
Yeah Trapt, thats what I mean =)
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Geez, he wasn't bragging that much. Not enough to warrant you exploding on him like that.
On that note, Hiya Ice. :D
yet he was still bragging. no one cares if he can four stock a cpu. I don't see why that statement was necessary at all. Admit it...that was unnecessary. People who do that make me mad. sue me.
and we're off topic again. well what do you expect from the lucario boards.
Timbers
check me out
His post held relevance, as CPUs are a terrible thing to base any analysis on.
Alright now that's settled.
Ok fine. Thats a good way to settle it.
Now, what we should have been talking about:
Trela suggested we talk about stages (i think he edited it out).
I replied:
Now, what we should have been talking about:
Trela suggested we talk about stages (i think he edited it out).
I replied:
Then Trela edited:
What do you guys think?
Lucarioowl
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 82
DEEDEEDEE nuff said he is like a kirby with ike powers plus a olimar
Trela
Smash Lord
Hey there Owl. We are currently discussing Luigi, so if you have any tips on him, tell us =D
Yeah Trapt, I edited it out =I
How about Luigi's Mansion? Lucario can beat almost every character on that stage.
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Hmm. I'm thinking once we get "Recommended Stages", we can move on to G&W.
Browny
Smash Hater
icecle mountain lol...
lucarios high traction and luigis non existant traction could make thinks interesting
lucarios high traction and luigis non existant traction could make thinks interesting
Zero_Gamer
Smash Master
Too bad Icicle Mountain is banned...
I think stages that don't have many platforms are good for fighting against Luigi, PK Stadium2 is good because the wind portion makes Luigi fall incredibly slowly and is juggled even more easily, Luigi can't control the center of the treadmill portion because of his small range and bad traction, yet can't attack at all when not in the center. The ground portion is pretty even.
Luigi's Mansion - it's a given why.
Norfair - Luigi moves really slowly in the air so the situations where lava comes to rear its ugly pwn will be extra effective on him.
These all seem to be good counterpicks IMO.
I think stages that don't have many platforms are good for fighting against Luigi, PK Stadium2 is good because the wind portion makes Luigi fall incredibly slowly and is juggled even more easily, Luigi can't control the center of the treadmill portion because of his small range and bad traction, yet can't attack at all when not in the center. The ground portion is pretty even.
Luigi's Mansion - it's a given why.
Norfair - Luigi moves really slowly in the air so the situations where lava comes to rear its ugly pwn will be extra effective on him.
These all seem to be good counterpicks IMO.
IceDX
Smash Ace
i really think u should not only judge whether the lucario machups are bad even or good y dont u list the specific things that explains why is a machup g/e/b.... like other threads
Browny
Smash Hater
...
try reading this thread first before replying
try reading this thread first before replying
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Timbers
check me out
rofl
Anyways, Luigi's one of those characters that doesn't have a bad stage. The only thing I could possibly suggest is Jungle Japes. High ceiling, and enhances any type of camping against him. Forces any approach to be aerial (meaning no worries about tornado or grabs)
Reading is fun.
Yeah thats a good idea, the gaps in the platforms are perfect for those reasons. Also including banned stages I really liked icicle mountain as an idea. Not only with the traction issue for Luigi, as stated before, but the ice is fairly easy to wallgrab onto.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
If you guys are looking for counterpicks against Luigi, he's one of those semi-versatile character's so be careful on what your picking. If anything I suggest a place where Lucario can bust out his Aura Sphere's at best such as FD or sometimes smashville. Those are good stages to start off. A counter pick is good like Jungle japes because luigi can get ***** due to high ceiling and gets ***** by the effin blue lizard w/e it is.
Edit : If it was anything I was leaning towards a 50-50 matchup or a 55-45 matchup in either Luigi's favor or Lucario's favor.
The most hated thing i hate is Force palm, and waveboucing =[
Edit : If it was anything I was leaning towards a 50-50 matchup or a 55-45 matchup in either Luigi's favor or Lucario's favor.
The most hated thing i hate is Force palm, and waveboucing =[
Thanks for the input Luigi main
. What did you think about the rest of our opinions?Oh, and, to be honest, I don't think you should hate FP. If we are at all close enough to even pull it off Luigi would have hit us already anyways because his ground game is fairly good/fast/lagless.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
Anything with a high ceiling is almost always gonna be lucario's counterpick. And in cases where our spam is better than their spam, FD and smashville. Battlefield if we **** their air game.
just keep shieldgrabbing the nairs, fair his fairs (i think our's wins, amiright?), uair anything and fsmash his approach. Mix in some spheres of death, a pinch of ftilt, and a cup of dair and you can outrange everything he has for ya. Just SDI away from the jabs so you dont get firepunched and overall, space him out so he can't touch you.
60:40 us
just keep shieldgrabbing the nairs, fair his fairs (i think our's wins, amiright?), uair anything and fsmash his approach. Mix in some spheres of death, a pinch of ftilt, and a cup of dair and you can outrange everything he has for ya. Just SDI away from the jabs so you dont get firepunched and overall, space him out so he can't touch you.
60:40 us
play gay and you'll win
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I've fought alot of Lucarios what I can tell you is, waveboucing pissed me off lulz. If your spotdodger abuser like me, go for tilts and Fsmashs. Fair WoP is your friend as well as Aura spheres. I srsly get scared when i see a charged AS i freak out and then get hit it by it -_- mindgames my friends.
Any questions on regarding luigi? :D
Any questions on regarding luigi? :D
I'm pretty sure someone on this thread has said that his f-air outranges ours. Or maybe his n-air outranges our f-air. I forget which. Either way, Luigi's air game is very good and he will beat us in an aerial battle unless we are directly below him (our u-air is much better than his d-air). Or, I suppose, if he is directly below us too, but any good player would have enough sense to not be under there with our d-air and whatnot.
But I agree:
play gay and you'll win
*requests new rotation cough cough* Lol just kidding Jeepy.
neji32
Smash Lord
Thats not what I ment but w/e
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Luigi's Nair likes to trade off hits though. Well a good or bad? Lucario player,who is directly above you will usually Dair, (the players i know do that :3), at that time, Luigi's will either spotdodge shoryuken or do a spotdodge utilt/upsmash but bleh. Srsly, I give props on Lucario's ground game. I get ***** here and there with tilts, occasional smashs and gey AS'es.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
Why you would quote someone TWICE when the discussion has already moved to a different issue is beyond me.
Ok, I see what you mean. I think, perhaps, by the time the spot dodge annimations are over Lucario will do another d-air (cause most of us do more than one at a time). But thats interesting. That would look sick if I saw it pulled off, you know, spot dodge the d-air and up-b sweetspot.
Lol. Thats all I have to say.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Yea, also don't bother spotdodging Luigi's Nair because it has a long lasting hitbox and just sets hiim for the kill or the utilt combo which you don't wanna be in. Also with my other post about saying Luigi's ***** in the air hands down thing, I meant that he ***** in terms of power but not range >.> but meh.
Yeah, but just the amazing way he can set up combos with his n-air and u-air (if the opponent is in the hitbox) pretty much makes up for it.
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
I keep forgetting to add things but just in case here's another tidbit. Luigi can be attacked while doing a rising nado if you attack him on top of his head ( Think of it as a Mk doing a whorenado) Also, since Luigi's will like to green missle to sweet spot the ledge, you can always first grab the edge, jump, ledgehop attack with Bair (although i dont know if this hitbox lasts long but just use a aerial that has a lasting hitbox) I've gotten killed by a Falco with his Bair whenever i try to sweetspot the edge.
Also I'm not sure if I saw or if i included but you should really include how the fact tornado can hit you in a offstage angle ( just as a reminder ;D)
Also I'm not sure if I saw or if i included but you should really include how the fact tornado can hit you in a offstage angle ( just as a reminder ;D)
Lucario's back air lasts forever.