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~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~

Trapt497

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Erich has been posting useful information from the beginning. He's allowed to be silly sometimes.
Yeah he was just complaining about the flaming... O_o Erich very frequently posts awesome and insightful posts, but I've never seen you around, Nitrix.

I'm going to make a suggestion here before I say anything on R.O.B. No offense to people like hippiedude, but if you don't play Lucario, please don't stick around on the LUCARIO boards. You have your own character specific forums, go post there.
Erich, if people like Hippiedude have several legit posts and really want to contribute to the thread, than whats wrong with that? Its awesome seeing other mainers coming in and discussing. Who cares if they 'seem' ignorant. We 'seem' ignorant of their character too.

The metagame of brawl will never grow if everyone stays in their own character-forum-bubble.

Think about that.

EDIT: ROB review coming soon sorry I went off topic and don't have my review yet.
 
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Hmmm...I wasn't quite sure how to word that part of my post. You are right though, I don't mind what people post in here, but when they start doing things like starting flame wars, they are no longer welcome here. The wording that I used was the only way I could think of to ward off people who want to argue. When people are helpful I don't mind, but if people WANT to help, then they need to just be helpful and not be complete jerks. I'll change the wording of that part of my post then? Hmmm...this might take a little bit for me to change it.

Thanks for calling me on that guys. I don't want to be the one to make others dislike our boards.

EDIT: Does that look better you guys? Go read it real' quick!

And I was being sarcastic with the R.O.B. thing, if you didn't know. Don't worry, I'll do that with Snake too! They're both top tier whores.
 

betterthanbonds9

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Hmmm...I wasn't quite sure how to word that part of my post. You are right though, I don't mind what people post in here, but when they start doing things like starting flame wars, they are no longer welcome here. The wording that I used was the only way I could think of to ward off people who want to argue. When people are helpful I don't mind, but if people WANT to help, then they need to just be helpful and not be complete jerks. I'll change the wording of that part of my post then? Hmmm...this might take a little bit for me to change it.

Thanks for calling me on that guys. I don't want to be the one to make others dislike our boards.

EDIT: Does that look better you guys? Go read it real' quick!

And I was being sarcastic with the R.O.B. thing, if you didn't know. Don't worry, I'll do that with Snake too! They're both top tier whores.
it's okay, i figured you only meant the extreme stuff like simna (who also scared the **** out of people and basically killed this thread....). And i found the ROB being gay thing to be like the luigi stays in green stuff
 

Blood_Hawk

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Wait, ROB is gay? When did that happen? (Obvious Sarcasm)

Nice stuff going on here though guys. I'll have to get into the discussion. I fail for not checking the sticky. I think I could have contributed a heck of a lot.
 

Col. Stauffenberg

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I reject the notion that we should stay away from ROB in the air. As long as you watch for nair, you should be fine.

Edgeguarding ROB is not as hard as one might think either. He can't airdodge while using his up-b, so throw up some aura spheres and bairs at him and watch him squirm. If he tries going for the ledge from below (say, because he threw a dreidel at you), head over and dair him. There's not much he can do about it.
 

indianunit

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I reject the notion that we should stay away from ROB in the air. As long as you watch for nair, you should be fine.

Edgeguarding ROB is not as hard as one might think either. He can't airdodge while using his up-b, so throw up some aura spheres and bairs at him and watch him squirm. If he tries going for the ledge from below (say, because he threw a dreidel at you), head over and dair him. There's not much he can do about it.
Stauffenbuddy has a point (hey thats a good one, stauffenbuddy lol). I can't tell you how many countless times I've seen ROB run out of gas and die because he forgets to land his ROB for a little refueling. If you can prevent him from landing on stage (which isn't hard since he can't airdodge in his UP-b) than do it and wait for his gas to go and watch him fall senselessely to his death.
 
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@Jeepy: I made a couple of updates in the Luario's Strategy/How to Win section of my post, so if you quoted me, make sure you get the updated version. I added some stuff on R.O.B.'s recovery, and a little bit on his approach.
 

hippiedude92

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Erich, if people like Hippiedude have several legit posts and really want to contribute to the thread, than whats wrong with that? Its awesome seeing other mainers coming in and discussing. Who cares if they 'seem' ignorant. We 'seem' ignorant of their character too.

The metagame of brawl will never grow if everyone stays in their own character-forum-bubble.

Think about that.

.

Offtopic: Well well, I guess I'm not welcome to post here? No? It's kays anyways :3. I hope I didn't cause any flame wars but I was merely posting my 2 cents >_>. Besides I was considering Lucario as a secondary cause hes hella fun and I'm a pokemanz fan lol.

Ontopic: Btw, don't bother picking Luigi's Mansion for a counterpick. AS are blocked from the pillars and ROB's laser isn't. Out of preference, I'd pick Lylat as counterpick so I can crawl my way to rob without getting sniped because of how the stage tilts.
 

tedward2000

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R.O.B.

Where the hell did ROB come from? New character revieled on Dojo, ROB!!(*tim allen* huooaa?)
He's a robot. That could work as a joystick, and has magnets as hands.
Oh he's new, he wont be any good...Wrong.

Rob, is another odd one. With the same nonexistent history, and somehow a character as G&W. He too is up there in the running of top tier. He's a heavy character, with just the right moves.

To begin, Rob's areials are great. Namely his Fair, Bair and Nair. The biggest of those moves is his Nair. Much like Lucarios, Rob will spin around in a circle, with flames shooting out of his butt (is it a butt, can we be sure?). It has MASSIVE hit box range, and knockback. His Fair follows similar to Lucarios again in the sense that it can be used many a time in one full jump. Bair is long and it can kill, nuff said.

Rob's projectiles are amazing. Its a laser and a top. Don't sound too amazing right? Wrong. Remember when I said that Rob's hands where magnets? I lied they are can openers, opening the top of doom soup. That little Gyro (fully charged) is very powerful, does lots of damage, and can be picked up reused, or throw away and Rob Just makes another one. They never go away (oh and it stops AS's too). Then theres the laser, a projectile that over a short time, gets stronger and wider. It flies parallel but can be angled. Its fast, and is liked to be used as a prod to killing you off screen. When Rob blinks, he'sa finished charging his laser.

Another move to be wary about is his Dsmash. Its like the Whorenado, ROB spins getting those near him stuck and take damage. Just avoid this. Its too quick to try to do anything sneaky, and too large that normal moves do nothing. Again, and stressed upon, Avoid this move.

Oh the side note, Rob has great (yet hindersome) recovery and amazing spot dodge. Rob likes to live, but so do we.

Its a lot to think about, but lucario can get away with a few things. Just play this very carfully.
Matchup wise, it is in Rob's favor, but like the rest not by too much.
-tedward2000
 
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Mmmm, sorry Hippiedude. I edited my post with better wording. I didn't really want people like you gone, just people that want to argue. If you want to help, then great! Stick around. But if you just wanna argue and piss me off...get outta here. Go re-read that post I made on ROB if you want(actually, just the first paragraph where I posted my...warning, I guess. It's a long post. ;p), but you're definitely welcome here. Betterthanbonds knew what I meant.

Anyways, back onto the topic...hmmm, let's see...I got nothin' else to add. OOOH! I know! Don't worry Blood Hawk, you can contribute to all the other match-ups after this one! Yea, I'm cool.:cool::lick:
 

Timbers

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I'm tired and I feel like ****** Overswarm's Lucario entry and posting it here.

Lucario


Difficulty: Average
Appearance: Common

Returning

When returning to the stage, know that if you are ANYWHERE near Lucario, he will hit you. He has a *****in' projectile that will kill you if you are up+bing since you cannot air dodge, and his fair hits above and in front of him. Did I mention that his dair completely takes the ledge out of the equation if he so chooses?

You are at a serious disadvantage when returning. Lucario can rarely KILL you like this, but he can almost always deal a ton of damage. Your best bet is to recover high, very high, and land on the stage with an air dodge or falling nair. If you have to grab the edge, Lucario again has the advantage. His dair out prioritizes your u-air, his jab sets you up for several combos of his and is practically lagless, and one mistake makes you forward smashed to hell. Generally your goal here is to get on the stage or get Lucario off.

If you can, bait him by grabbing the ledge continuously. Most Lucario's think they are clever when they run off and dair several times. They are not. Simply roll or stand up on the stage then edgeguard appropriately. If you cannot bait them off the stage and they simpy spam aura sphere, jabs, tilts, and smashes.... your best bet is a jump off ledge +air dodge or a roll to get behind them and then pray you don't get knocked off the ledge again.

If you want to be risky, you can try a drop off ledge to jumping fast-falled nair followed by a d-tilt, or sometimes a single fastfalled fair. Many Lucarios are VERY shield happy; once they shield, they are able to come out with a jab (which combos into their d-tilt or over-b) or a fair that allows them to dair your shield (that shield pokes often, too).

Edgeguarding

Bair. Plain and simple, bair is how you do it. Set yourself up to fall with him or, if you cannot, hover near the ledge. When he starts his up+b, bair him. Grab ledge or land on stage, repeat.

Fair works, but it sends him up and out so it it much harder to gimp with this unless he is at low % or fair is weakened. Your main goal is to remove his second jump or send him out far enough to force him to up+b, and from there you can bair him. If you can fall ABOVE him, a dair is also possible... but stick to bair.

Many Lucarios will commit the sin of jumping into the ****. You b-throw them off the edge, and they immediately jump forward. Why do so many Lucarios do this? Because their forward air comes out fast and has insane priority; this allows them to safely land on the stage. But them doing this is just plain silly. Angle an f-tilt and then short hop fair in place to knock them back off or, if you prefer, short hop and fully charged gyro or laser. From there, they will have to use their up +b.

If it turns out you have to hit them with your fair to knock them away from the edge and you are facing the wrong way, don't be afraid to shoot a laser to make them fall or do a gyro cancel to face the opposite direction.

While it SOUNDS like Lucario can be super easily gimped from reading the above... he can't. Many Lucario players will end up making it back to the stage no matter how good you are; he has many options and the more damage he takes the more likely he will survive. Luckily for you, once he uses his up+b this is an almost guaranteed 80% or so. From here you can proceed with killing him as per normal. Just be wary of Lucario's at high % and focus on getting him off the stage. Remember, when Lucario is returning he can't combo; on the stage he can.

Approaching

Approaching spike hands mcdougal is difficult. His OOS options are very good, his aerial game is just as good as yours if not better, and if he is at a high % trading hits with him means you are taking more damage than he is. That's bad, especially considering the huge gap that will appear if you are down a stock!

That said, there are three ways you really want to approach Lucario:

F-tilt

Grab

Dash attack

Those 3 are gold in this matchup, and are listed in order of effectiveness. If you f-tilt, Lucario can't really punish you. He can f-smash, but you can f-tilt him before he finishes it. From there, you can follow up with whatever you'd like. Your grab isn't amazing, but it gets him off the stage (which is where you want him).

Your dash attack is good in that it puts Lucario on the defensive. Try to push him in the direction you want and don't attempt to punish him unless he makes a mistake with an aerial or hits the ground. U-tilting Lucario makes it look like he is ready for a u-air, but to Lucario it looks like you're ready for a face full of down-air.

Defending

Again, don't attempt to punish Lucario unless you KNOW he is open or your move outranges him. F-tilt, nair, bair, u-smash, things like that. Hitting him with u-air or fair is a good way to get hit back.

When he's approaching you, they standard approaches are fair to nair, landing behind you, then short hop dairing or just turning around and jabbing. They also will frequenlty full hop fair to repeated dairs on your shield. These WILL shield poke, so be careful.

His aura sphere spam is also incredibly powerful, especially at high %. These can deal 12% when spammed!!! Don't try to challenge it. Shield, walk forward, shield, walk forward, and be ready to f-tilt. Alternatively, you can jump and laser; Lucario telegraphs his aura sphere, so moving to plats to angle lasers at him works well. Just be sure not to trade hits with your laser and his sphere.

Two tricks with your projectiles against him is to shoot a fully charged gyro; it will often go through the aura spheres or simply destroy it and bounce back towards you depending on the level of his charge. If it bounces back, this gives you an opportunity to glide toss in the near future! The other trick is to simply powershield for 20 seconds, then trade hits. You shoot a fully charged laser, he shoots an aura sphere; you'll both take near the same damage, but he's off the stage!

When he's jabbing you, you either want to DI towards him and mash jump to footstool (if you can react fast enough, dair) or just DI away. Most Lucarios jab jab over-b or d-tilt, both of which are laggy enough to punish if you DI away from his jabs far enough to make him miss.

Stages to Ban

Norfair - While not inherently a good Lucario stage, his ability to survive here when edgeguarded makes one of ROB's biggest strenghts disappear. Add to that the new emphasis on aerial games and Lucario has himself a nice place against ROB.

Green Hill Zone- this may be a local thing, but Bloodhawk has taken me here and he is able to spam aura sphere ALL DAY here. Not only that, but there is no edgeguarding! Super hard to do anything worthwhile against Lucario here, and he can easily KO you in any direction.

Stages to Counterpick

Luigi's Mansion- "But OS, he lives forever here!" Yeah, I know. You can prevent this by destroying the house when you please, but the main point of this stage against Lucario is that he can spam aura sphere through the pillars while you can laser AND his aerial game is hurt. The ceiling is low enough to where a fair to dair from him leaves him open for a grab or tilt many times. Did I also mention that most of the fighting will take place near the edges of the stage, meaning you'll have ample opportunity to edgeguard him?

Frigate- The lack of a ledge on the right side of the first transformation = easy gimps. You can actually edgeguard with d-tilt here!

Corneria- Camping by the fin gives you opportunity for an infinite, that's great, but the big thing is that everyone dies sooner here. This means that Lucario won't get his % boost as he normally does. Plus, you can have f-throw/b-throw to f-smash combos here and those are sexy.

Possible secondaries you may want to consider

ROB should work well enough for this matchup.

Synopsis

Lucario has the advantage in the beginning of conflict, and is at a disadvantage at the end. That is the basic summary of this matchup. Let Lucario think he is in control and be patient, then you'll get your chance and he will be defenseless.
I'll read everyone else's posts tomorrow and nitpick :3
 

JJR.O.B.

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Stauffenbuddy has a point (hey thats a good one, stauffenbuddy lol). I can't tell you how many countless times I've seen ROB run out of gas and die because he forgets to land his ROB for a little refueling. If you can prevent him from landing on stage (which isn't hard since he can't airdodge in his UP-b) than do it and wait for his gas to go and watch him fall senselessely to his death.
But ROB can attack out of his up b so watch out for that
 

Fizzle

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Also remember that a smart ROB, like Snake, will like to recover high over your head, where there's not a whole lot you can do. If you can manage to hit him during his upb, then go for it. Just be quick enough to avoid his nair, which I'm pretty sure beats out everything we've got. Don't forget ROB has two projectiles he can use while recovering (one that will eat AS at any percent).

Edgeguarding ROB offstage is possible, but a smart ROB isn't going to let that happen. Your best bet is to predict where he'll land and ready a trusty rawrsmash.
 

Overswarm

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Also remember that a smart ROB, like Snake, will like to recover high over your head, where there's not a whole lot you can do. If you can manage to hit him during his upb, then go for it. Just be quick enough to avoid his nair, which I'm pretty sure beats out everything we've got. Don't forget ROB has two projectiles he can use while recovering (one that will eat AS at any percent).

Edgeguarding ROB offstage is possible, but a smart ROB isn't going to let that happen. Your best bet is to predict where he'll land and ready a trusty rawrsmash.
No.... a DUMB robot will fly over your head. This uses up a ton of fuel and is only viable if you go waaaaaaaaay up high. Then, if you hit him off the stage again before is he on the ground for a second or so, he has hardly any fuel.

Recovering high is a high risk / high reward scenario and won't be used often.
 

betterthanbonds9

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Also remember that a smart ROB, like Snake, will like to recover high over your head, where there's not a whole lot you can do. If you can manage to hit him during his upb, then go for it. Just be quick enough to avoid his nair, which I'm pretty sure beats out everything we've got. Don't forget ROB has two projectiles he can use while recovering (one that will eat AS at any percent).

Edgeguarding ROB offstage is possible, but a smart ROB isn't going to let that happen. Your best bet is to predict where he'll land and ready a trusty rawrsmash.
except ROB doesn't have the amazing ff that snake does. I might just see ROB from youtube, but I'm like 97% sure that ROB likes to conserve fuel >_>
 

Timbers

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No.... a DUMB robot will fly over your head. This uses up a ton of fuel and is only viable if you go waaaaaaaaay up high. Then, if you hit him off the stage again before is he on the ground for a second or so, he has hardly any fuel.

Recovering high is a high risk / high reward scenario and won't be used often.
To add on, ROB would rather not leave the gaping blindspot beneath him ready to be pummelled. He's floaty, so unlike Snake he can't just recover back onto the stage with a ff and get to the ground quickly.

Theres really nothing I can add on that OS' entry hasn't already covered though. Be careful of landing on ROB though. His usmash and your dair will trade hits, and his usmash is gonna kill you at like 100. Don't do that.
 

The Halloween Captain

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To add on, ROB would rather not leave the gaping blindspot beneath him ready to be pummelled. He's floaty, so unlike Snake he can't just recover back onto the stage with a ff and get to the ground quickly.

Theres really nothing I can add on that OS' entry hasn't already covered though. Be careful of landing on ROB though. His usmash and your dair will trade hits, and his usmash is gonna kill you at like 100. Don't do that.
It's odd, but I find when a R.O.B. spams his roll dodge and projectiles, approaching with Dair is the ONLY solution. If you have a better one, I need advice (although I have yet to be hit when doing this approach correctly).
 

betterthanbonds9

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It's odd, but I find when a R.O.B. spams his roll dodge and projectiles, approaching with Dair is the ONLY solution. If you have a better one, I need advice (although I have yet to be hit when doing this approach correctly).
dsmash when he rolls, dtilt, grab it, charge a sphere, shield his dsmash, meh. Projectiles are a nuisance but they aren't exactly spammable...

about approaching, chances are he's gonna roll or shield grab, so mindgame him with pstick'd *** and keep him uncomfortable
 

Timbers

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It's odd, but I find when a R.O.B. spams his roll dodge and projectiles, approaching with Dair is the ONLY solution. If you have a better one, I need advice (although I have yet to be hit when doing this approach correctly).
His ftilt shuts down your sh approach better than most characters, just keep that in mind when approaching.

Roll abuse from a ROB is less than admirable. His roll isn't exactly stellar, and just shorthopping in place leaves you perfectly safe and right above him while he's vulnerable doing a dsmash (I assume that's what you mean)

ROB's dsmash is relatively easy to get around. It's good as an oos option, but that's really it. If he's roll spamming, you can easily punish this with fsmash. Space him so that he's at the tip of fsmash. If you fsmash and he shields, you're completely safe. If he rolls away, you're still safe. If he rolls into you, the brunt of your fsmash hits him.

Obviously not something you should spam, but if he's predictable with rolls then use it. It punishes rolls 10x better than dsmash.
 

Trapt497

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Looks to me like your describing my penus not ROB's Bair. ;)
Ok bud. You're cool.

It's odd, but I find when a R.O.B. spams his roll dodge and projectiles, approaching with Dair is the ONLY solution. If you have a better one, I need advice (although I have yet to be hit when doing this approach correctly).
Uhh...its hard to say. A good ROB who camps well is hard to beat. Approaching with d-air, to me, doesn't even sound like that great of a plan because ROB's upsmash has a lot of range and power (though it has startup lag).

Umm, again, its hard to say. If I'm playing a camper I usually throw in a couple BAS's and run after them if it works. Maybe SH then f-air or d-air. I'm not so sure thats a great idea against ROB though. His top blocks AS, I believe. And his A moves have quite a bit of range you would have to worry about if you approahced and got past his projectiles.

Maybe you could SH or FH and approach him from the air, diagonally, enough to be out of range of the u-smash or u-tilt. If your f-air connects, definetly follow up with a n-air, land with zero lag, and get in a couple more hits after that. Another idea is shoot a fully charged AS (but, subtle, of course) when he doesn't expect it so the top doesn't block it. Finally, if you really can't approach him, SH > AD so it doesn't hit you and then approach with whatever you want.

Again, its hard to say because ROB is great at camping. Some of my suggestions could be completely useless.

Good question.
 

Fizzle

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Recovering high is a high risk / high reward scenario and won't be used often.
Then why does your guide suggest otherwise?

"Your best bet is to recover high, very high, and land on the stage with an air dodge or falling nair."

If ROB is DIing properly, he should only need a little fuel and a few bairs to safely recover out of your reach. From there, he can airdodge or nair to cover his landing. ROB may not have the great FF that Snake does, but his horizontal DI and bair make up for it.

OS, if you don't recommend recovering high, and you don't recommend grabbing the edge, then just what do you recommend for ROB?
 

Trapt497

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Then why does your guide suggest otherwise?

"Your best bet is to recover high, very high, and land on the stage with an air dodge or falling nair."

If ROB is DIing properly, he should only need a little fuel and a few bairs to safely recover out of your reach. From there, he can airdodge or nair to cover his landing. ROB may not have the great FF that Snake does, but his horizontal DI and bair make up for it.

OS, if you don't recommend recovering high, and you don't recommend grabbing the edge, then just what do you recommend for ROB?
^^well, that was somewhat of a contradiction, but if your flying way up high and wasting fuel you don't know what your doing. Unless I'm mistaken. But he needs that fuel. Plus ROB using his up B is him just asking to get AS'd or f-air'd if he is horizontal to us or u-air'd if he is above us.
 

Timbers

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I'm pretty sure he meant that recovering high against a Lucario is recommended if possible. Lucario isn't the greatest of jugglers and his uair/usmash aren't threatening in the slightest.

But in a general sense, ROB recovering onto the stage is dangerous against most characters.
 

Trapt497

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I'm pretty sure he meant that recovering high against a Lucario is recommended if possible. Lucario isn't the greatest of jugglers and his uair/usmash aren't threatening in the slightest.

But in a general sense, ROB recovering onto the stage is dangerous against most characters.
you don't think u-air is a threat? I mean, its not exactly the most powerful u-air in the game, but the little amount of lag it has is pretty effective against a move that takes a while to carry out, like ROB's d-air.

But yeah it is dangerous. ROB's fairly easy to gimp.
 

manhunter098

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Well I would say hes fairly easy to punish, not gimp. If he comes for the upwards approach you probably wont gimp him, but you can probably land a hit. Still, I think that ROB has a great recovery. Being able to attack while using his up-b is a great asset, and he easily stay low to avoid projectile spam from Lucario. He can use a rising n-air, or u-air, or whatever, he really has plenty of options to make sure he wont be gimped so easily. But like I said, you might be able to score a little extra damage on ROB when he recovers, but I really wouldnt count on gimping him as a good way to rack up kills on him.
 

Timbers

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you don't think u-air is a threat? I mean, its not exactly the most powerful u-air in the game, but the little amount of lag it has is pretty effective against a move that takes a while to carry out, like ROB's d-air.
Luc can't follow airdodges as well as some characters (GaW, Wario) and the uair isn't nearly a threatening juggling tool, as the knockback/damage is definitely short of amazing. Normally would be a good tool, but Luc's air DI is subpar, and he can't follow an airborne character very well due to semi-linear aerials.

On top of that he can't keep the juggle up on the ground very well either. Utilt is the only viable option as usmash is generally mass suck, and his groundspeed isn't impressive at all to chase a opponent.

Put a ROB above a GaW, Metaknight, Snake, Wario, Marth, etc. and he's going to have tons of trouble. Lucario can't deal with airdodges as well as others.
 

cutter

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@ dguy: I brought up Simna's mod abuse with the admins and they have reversed your "infractions". Thanks to The Halloween Captain for bringing this up with me. :)
 

OneWingedAngelo1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
266
Location
Rochester
On top of that he can't keep the juggle up on the ground very well either. Utilt is the only viable option as usmash is generally mass suck, and his groundspeed isn't impressive at all to chase a opponent.
You should really invest more time into figuring out the uses for this move, it is much better then you give it credit for.

But I would have to say, in this match up, if there is anywhere I would want a R.O.B. to be it is above me. Who cares if you can Juggle the character... go for raking up damage with strong attacks and the eventual kill. Up Smash is an incredibly good kill move.

The one place you DON'T want R.O.B. is on the side of you. Between Gyro, Forward Air, Back Air, Neutral Air >> Auto Cancel >> Whatever, none of those look good for a Lucario to fight. From above he only has Down Air (which pretty much is too slow to be effective if you are prepared for it), and a Fast Felled Side Air which doesn't allow him to have many options from that.

You have to play a much better Spacing game then the R.O.B. player if you are fighting him from the side since just about all but your Forward Smash will be out ranged. And if you miss with the Forward Smash you will most likely be eating one of his projectiles to pay for it.
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
You should really invest more time into figuring out the uses for this move, it is much better then you give it credit for.
It has uses.

Juggling is not one of them.

I'm pretty sure ROB's ftilt outranges Luc's fsmash, or it's relatively the same range. It's pretty quick, but if he whiffs he has an extended hurtbox for a good 15 or so frames. Stutterstepping an fsmash away from ROB may or may not be effective in baiting the ftilt.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Messages
1,715
Location
Rexburg, Idaho
WOOOO! Go Dguy!!!

What does everyone think on the over-all match-up? Even, or in R.O.B.'s favor(slightly)?

EDIT: Something else too...stages? I listed some, but only one for good CP's and several for bad stages against him.
 

Alus

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,539
Location
Akorn(Akron) OH
NNID
Starsauce
3DS FC
5327-1023-2754
i vote R.O.Bs favor...

i will post my reason here later...

actually it depends on the map really....
 
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