~Lucario Matchup Chart/Discussion: Rotation Twenty-Four: Meta Knight~

[Mattsy]

Trudat. (not to be mistaken with Chudat)

Even in a thread dedicated to Lucario, the might of the paunch must be discussed.

 

[DarkDragoon]

I love when the world freezes at the impact of Knee. melee knees too easy and boring!

D: It isn't the knee, but the combo leading up to it, that is exciting.

Brawl's knee does have a more epic air to it though...world freezing was a good addition.

>_> And you didn't suck against MK as far as I was seeing. I mean, I did spot a couple little trip ups but hindsight is always 20/20. I would say you were taking care of M2k pretty well until that last stock.

Trudat. (not to be mistaken with Chudat)

Even in a thread dedicated to Lucario, the might of the paunch must be discussed.

...But we're talking about the Knee o_o...
-DD

 

[xxmoosexx]

Personally, I have'nt found an MK play differently for any character....

Is there a difference in teh way they play? Never realized, always seemed to me that theyd spam some moves and when they got fed up whorenado

 

[xxmoosexx]

And yes i have just recently picked up Capt. Falcon, and the Knee of Justice has more of an epic air, but then again the combo is also epic cuz the one that got comboed has no memory of the incident becuz it blows their minds.....YES!

 

[cba]

Lucario > MK
do teh maff

 

[Browny]

since MU invite threads get locked...

Sonic boards are discussing lucario. plz come + dont be not chill lol :>

 

[phi1ny3]

since MU invite threads get locked...

Sonic boards are discussing lucario. plz come + dont be not chill lol :>

Uh oh, the only boards that are on a higher tier list than us in terms of spam posts. Be care around Sonic board members "flame" special, it's a doozy. Oh, and don't get "banned", lol.

 

[phi1ny3]

*Plays "Taps" on the trumpet with a 26 gun salute*
We have come together today in remembrance of a dearly departed thread, who hardly had the time to fully develop, but who we all hold dear in our hearts. It was a gentle death, not of bombing, fire, and warcry, but of neglect, and an increasingly declining discussion. May this rest in peace.

*cue boo-hooing*
*and cue a revival accompanied by a soulful organ and hallelujah choir*

 

[|RK|]

*blinks* Oh well? The members aren't interested in discussing this any more, ironically when we get to Meta-Knight. I think that this could of had a lot more meaningful discussion within it, but oh well.

 

[Fogo]

There's just not much to say about MK, we have no real advantage over him, but he is beatable.


I say we move on to the next topic

 

[A New England Winter]

I really think we should continue the match up discussions. It's very helpful to people who don't get too much experience from local players (Me >_>), and I've learned a lot from this. I would love to see some info on MK, I have no clue how to fight one.

 

[Samuelson]

So i think we should move on to the next character...

 

[Lee Martin]

uh. i thought that lucario beat mk on the stage before. but i can definetely say that after this tourney(cot4) mk completely owns lucario. all mk has to do is space better and use his fair better/ powershield fsmash which is really easy/ and gimp lucario with dair. i thought the ground game was in lucario's favor bc i have beaten many great mk's with lucario before but there's just no comparison.

I will say though now that I feel forced to pick up MK again to play competitive Brawl. I'll most likely use Mk for Snake and MK, and Lucario for every other match up. bc i TRULY enjoy playing Lucario. It's just a shame that at such a high level of play Lucario cant compete with the top tiers.

 

[Fogo]

uh. i thought that lucario beat mk on the stage before. but i can definetely say that after this tourney(cot4) mk completely owns lucario. all mk has to do is space better and use his fair better/ powershield fsmash which is really easy/ and gimp lucario with dair. i thought the ground game was in lucario's favor bc i have beaten many great mk's with lucario before but there's just no comparison.

He's still beatable if you put your mind to it


Respond to my text plz?

 

[phi1ny3]

uh. i thought that lucario beat mk on the stage before. but i can definetely say that after this tourney(cot4) mk completely owns lucario. all mk has to do is space better and use his fair better/ powershield fsmash which is really easy/ and gimp lucario with dair. i thought the ground game was in lucario's favor bc i have beaten many great mk's with lucario before but there's just no comparison.

that and his ftilt is gay beyond belief. After using your fsmash, he can ftilt you (it's sad beyond belief). Then he nails you in the air. I actually find myself using jab, AS, and shield more than anything in this match.

imo I think this is 60:40 (disadvantage obviously).

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

One thing to remember is that in the Air, MetaKnight is only better than you if he is ABOVE you. Lucario's down air fills Meta-Knight's with terror, being the only move that FULLY OUTPRIORITIES ANY of Metaknight's Airborn attacks, when used right. Try not to use it when he's on the ground, since he can move out of the way and use his up tilt, but if you can keep him in the air and below you, he's screwed against that one move. Even his specials can't compete against it (except for the infinite cape rigged glitch crap). On the ground, Metaknight is much faster, so any smashes (forward smash has awesome range against his moves) must be timed properly inorder to hit him so that he doesn't dodge and hit you. Tilts help keep the little guy off of your back, but don't underestimate the usefulness of a well timed Forward Smash. It does seem a good thing to do to stop Metaknight's dreaded down smash. And speaking of Down Smashes, I love Lucario's, due to an impressive range, perfect for the momments when the two of you are trying to grab at eachother, shield dodging back and forth. Throw one of the down smashes down to cause chaos and havok during the "Shield/Grab Battles", which are usually good for a semi-defensive person like Lucario, so long as you stop MK from breaking your shield. Also, don't try to grab him with a Force Palm. Neutral A combos or A combo + grab is probably one of the faster assaults you have. And it's probably the best thing you can do to go from shielding back into combat. Just make sure MetaKnight doesn't shatter your shield. To stop that, as well as most of his other moves, it's best to keep a fully charged Aura Sphere with you at all times. The second you see his Mach Tornado, throw him a sphere and knock his you-know-what back to Dream Land. The mini ones seem good to use to slow his approach, plus the dodge that you get from it while you charge helps if he gets too close for comfort. Do not try to Rush Metaknight. That's a standard rule for pretty much anyone, but you have 8 minutes to take out 3 stock in most matches. That boils down to about 2:40 per each of his stock. Don't lollygag, but living long is better than trying to end it fast and being killed, not to mention the Aura boost you get from the damage over time.

I might be too nice a person, but I gotta say that Lucario is the one person I know who can stop Meta-Knight. I'm probably high, but I gotta say ATLEAST 55:45 in our favor.

 

[Samuelson]

^^^^

Dude....you're high. It's not in Lucario's favor at all.

 

[Browny]

Can i have some of what you're smoking? sounds like some pretty strong stuff

 

[Timbers]

uh. i thought that lucario beat mk on the stage before. but i can definetely say that after this tourney(cot4) mk completely owns lucario. all mk has to do is space better and use his fair better/ powershield fsmash which is really easy/ and gimp lucario with dair. i thought the ground game was in lucario's favor bc i have beaten many great mk's with lucario before but there's just no comparison.

I will say though now that I feel forced to pick up MK again to play competitive Brawl. I'll most likely use Mk for Snake and MK, and Lucario for every other match up. bc i TRULY enjoy playing Lucario. It's just a shame that at such a high level of play Lucario cant compete with the top tiers.

I actually believe that Lucario does better in the air against MK than on the ground, but yeah good luck with whatever you do. I truly think it would be next to impossible to actually win a national with Lucario. I feel terrible saying this, but there's just too many viable characters that do so well against him.

I heard that LA has MK banned? Is this true?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I actually believe that Lucario does better in the air against MK than on the ground, but yeah good luck with whatever you do. I truly think it would be next to impossible to actually win a national with Lucario. I feel terrible saying this, but there's just too many viable characters that do so well against him.

I heard that LA has MK banned? Is this true?

60-40's won't keep him out of national play.

If Lucario had 30-70's or worse, then he would have more problems.

 

[|RK|]

Tsk. Every board needs a vs. Meta Knight thread. But you're reasonings actually seem pretty good. You need a bit more of what an MK would do, though. And I'm gonna make sure it turns out in Lucario's favor eventually.

 

[Timbers]

60-40's won't keep him out of national play.

If Lucario had 30-70's or worse, then he would have more problems.

He can do well, but the idea of him winning a national is still very rare, and I don't expect to actually hear of this happening ever.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sadly, this is what happens when you have a character with almost too much balance in attributes. Even though he has good strengths, if there's a character who defeats all of his strengths, it doesn't blend into a character that will win at high levels of play.
I can't help but feel that there might be something in lucario's metagame that we are missing, I can't help but have a gut feeling that there's some mixup variations and hitbox shenanigans that is going unnoticed. Either that, or that's just me denying that lucario will get any higher in strengths.
This is just my initial reflection on the relatively little we've spent on seeing lucario's metagame. I mean, think about it, the biggest boom potentially came about the first month of the game, and during the summer before the SWF chat thread was created. While I'm not saying to get our hopes up, I think that we've not per se have been looking through all of our aspects. *sigh* Kind of miss the Jeepy days when he would show the "assembly of unfamiliar information" thread, it really did open up the possibilities.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

It has more to do with the fact that Lucario is a very solid character, but he just doesn't have the same overwhelming strengths that characters like MK or Snake have.

Really though, if you want to shape the metagame, actions speak louder than words. And if you're not in a position to do that through action, why worry about it? If you're not currently someone who can be a contender at a national tourney (and honestly none of us are besides Azen and Lee) why bother worrying about whether you can win with Lucario? Go play and have some fun with him.

 

[Fogo]

You guys may not care, but I know I'm on the brink of being able to compete in national tournaments with lucario, and I plan on pushing myself until that list of names includes fogo. One way or another the metagame will evolve for lucario, even if i have to tie it to me and drag it to the top.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

That's fine too. The metagame doesn't shape itself after all.

 

[Fogo]

True, it's up to us :D

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

You guys may not care, but I know I'm on the brink of being able to compete in national tournaments with lucario, and I plan on pushing myself until that list of names includes fogo. One way or another the metagame will evolve for lucario, even if i have to tie it to me and drag it to the top.

I've been training my you know what off against people online and high level computers inorder to improve myself, so that I can fight in tournaments the nation wide as well. I want people all over the United States to Fear "Da D Mon". All that I need to officially get into the game and begin making an impact upon the nation witht he Power of Aura is just for my rib to heal so I can travel, and a source of income to fund it.

Fogo, I like you. You're cool. Maybe I can Brawl against you every now and then to see how I am doing in my training.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He can do well, but the idea of him winning a national is still very rare, and I don't expect to actually hear of this happening ever.

If I were to compare match-ups to Melee, Lucario would have simular ones to Captain Falcon or Peach.

They both did win big tournaments even though it was rare, due to lack of representation and being slightly inferior to the top 4.

So Lucario is viable, but due to popularity of high tiered characters and lack of many top level Lucario players make it hard for him to win.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lucario did win, but as you said, I wouldn't expect it.

You guys may not care, but I know I'm on the brink of being able to compete in national tournaments with lucario, and I plan on pushing myself until that list of names includes fogo. One way or another the metagame will evolve for lucario, even if i have to tie it to me and drag it to the top.

Go for it. The more representation the better.

I'm planning on going to bigger tournaments as soon as I find an efficient way to go to other states.

 

[Lee Martin]

I have been finding new strategies for Lucario and I really thought about it. I think my Lucario is about 1.5 times as good now as it was a Cot4. After watched all my vids, I just see my mistakes. Uair should be used more and so should dair but not for shield pressure. Fsmash should be reserved, and Jab should be used A LOT. This is how i Play lucario anyway. Also when i get hit far away, I Di and shoot a backwards Aura sphere and space a bair of maybe necessary dair if it looks like i will try to get gimped. Bair is a lot more useful and just stays out for a good while./more priority. idk If any Lucarios do this but i thought of it myself. sometimes ill fastfall uair while coming back too. :0 Force palm is too hard to land effectively on a good player and should only maybe be attempted after a single jab. I don't know how to use Downsmash very effectively Tbh. I'm starting to learn dtilt. My Lucario will be a LOT better though by the next big tourney.

Check out this set vs Ninja LINK!. Aura too good. I feel like i got ***** at first but i hadnt played a diddy in like 2 months so yeah. I got the hang of it by the 3rd game even though i Lol sd'ed! .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npA2kA7BNnU

ALSO. Lucario is the Funnest Character in the game to me. Aura gives me such a ridiculous rush. I love how Lucario plays! SO MUCH

 

[Popertop]

LEEEE!!!!

I've noticed every time I get better with one of my characters, my Lucario get's a random upgrade.


Fogo I just realized we picked up Lucario at like the same time.
Except I was just returning to my previous main after getting better.

LEE I AM GOING TO BEAT YOU IN LUCARIO DITTOS NEXT TIME I COME TO LA(truf)

 

[Timbers]

Check out this set vs Ninja LINK!. Aura too good. I feel like i got ***** at first but i hadnt played a diddy in like 2 months so yeah. I got the hang of it by the 3rd game even though i Lol sd'ed! .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npA2kA7BNnU

ALSO. Lucario is the Funnest Character in the game to me. Aura gives me such a ridiculous rush. I love how Lucario plays! SO MUCH

Yeah I think you might have tried rushing this match a little. Like you had good control but some of the stuff you did was a bit unconventional (lots of rolling into him and got baited a lot and whiffing dairs) but it was still an overall good match. I don't know how you played against Ally and such but maybe you panicked a little?

Also **** yer uair is amazing and I love you for the ff uair finisher lmao.

If I were to compare match-ups to Melee, Lucario would have simular ones to Captain Falcon or Peach.

They both did win big tournaments even though it was rare, due to lack of representation and being slightly inferior to the top 4.

So Lucario is viable, but due to popularity of high tiered characters and lack of many top level Lucario players make it hard for him to win.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lucario did win, but as you said, I wouldn't expect it.

I would not compare Lucario to Peach. I'd place him more along the lines of Falcon, Jiggz, or Climbers. Peach I don't believe had anymore than 2 small disadvantages on the cast, and the rest was either even or in her favor, whereas Luc has small disadvantages against the vast majority of top and high.

 

[phi1ny3]

I have been finding new strategies for Lucario and I really thought about it. I think my Lucario is about 1.5 times as good now as it was a Cot4. After watched all my vids, I just see my mistakes. Uair should be used more and so should dair but not for shield pressure. Fsmash should be reserved, and Jab should be used A LOT. This is how i Play lucario anyway. Also when i get hit far away, I Di and shoot a backwards Aura sphere and space a bair of maybe necessary dair if it looks like i will try to get gimped. Bair is a lot more useful and just stays out for a good while./more priority. idk If any Lucarios do this but i thought of it myself. sometimes ill fastfall uair while coming back too. :0 Force palm is too hard to land effectively on a good player and should only maybe be attempted after a single jab. I don't know how to use Downsmash very effectively Tbh. I'm starting to learn dtilt. My Lucario will be a LOT better though by the next big tourney.

Check out this set vs Ninja LINK!. Aura too good. I feel like i got ***** at first but i hadnt played a diddy in like 2 months so yeah. I got the hang of it by the 3rd game even though i Lol sd'ed! .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npA2kA7BNnU

ALSO. Lucario is the Funnest Character in the game to me. Aura gives me such a ridiculous rush. I love how Lucario plays! SO MUCH

Wow, I can't tell you how many similarities I've been finding that I think are "underused" moves that I need to use more. Uair, though our 2nd slowest aerial, has so many other moves that startup into this it isn't even funny, plus juggling especially against snake is a very advantageous tool. I've also found dtilt to be very high on speed and priority, and is almost a good poke attack (if only it were faster), jab and ftilt have prolly been the moves I've seen use the most in though.

 

[cba]

/ded tred.....

 

[Timbers]

Uair, though our slowest aerial.

bair .

 

[Kitamerby]

Also when i get hit far away, I Di and shoot a backwards Aura sphere and space a bair of maybe necessary dair if it looks like i will try to get gimped.

Is that really the smartest move in most cases? I'd imagine the mere length of how long Bair stays out would cripple our otherwise good recovery, unless you're talking about times in which you would be able to land on the ground, anyways...

 

[phi1ny3]

bair .

Whoops, forgot.
fix'd

It has more to do with the fact that Lucario is a very solid character, but he just doesn't have the same overwhelming strengths that characters like MK or Snake have.

Really though, if you want to shape the metagame, actions speak louder than words. And if you're not in a position to do that through action, why worry about it? If you're not currently someone who can be a contender at a national tourney (and honestly none of us are besides Azen and Lee) why bother worrying about whether you can win with Lucario? Go play and have some fun with him.

I'm trying to get lucario's presence known in NW, since it is crowded with MK (tho that's true for anywhere), TL's, and D3's.

 

[Timbers]

Is that really the smartest move in most cases? I'd imagine the mere length of how long Bair stays out would cripple our otherwise good recovery, unless you're talking about times in which you would be able to land on the ground, anyways...

I've personally never found any good coming out of using bair while closing the gap between you and your opponent, as it's too slow to really do any real retaliation. Bair works but you need time and space to work with in order to not get too cramped in with your opponent.

 

[Lee Martin]

I'm not saying use it everytime, only as a mixup. And yeah its slow, but if your good you can use it right. lol. fair doesnt have enough priority or range. but either bair or airdodge Imo. sometimes a FF uair LOL. srsly..

 

[phi1ny3]

So guys, we've been talking to Kita, and while nothing has been set in stone, either FlameWaveK or I might be getting the torch passed to us to try keeping this thread alive, lol.