Losho
Smash Journeyman
What do you believe his best/worst match ups are and why? I personally find Zelda to be a royal pain due to her weight and priorities.
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I feel the same way regarding the favorable matchups, I will say that I feel that the Falco/ Fox matchup and be rather even if downtilt is used optimally to avoid crouchcancelingI used to think Zelda was bad in 3.0, haven't played in 3.5 but I think a lot of the issues have been settled down, mostly that aerial Nayru's has no intangibility so if she's mashing it during a combo she'll probably trade with us.
Lucario's worst matchups are probably; Peach, Squirtle, Mario, Falco, Fox, with an honorable mention to crouch canceling.
We're strong against tall characters that aren't floaties (big targets), and/or people with slow defensive options. Ganon, DK, Snake, Bowser, D3, Roy, Ike. I enjoy the Marth matchup too and think it's Lucario favored.
I feel you on that.Spacies crouch canceling can be a major problem but that's not why. Lucario has very few moves to challenge their buttons (think Fox nair), and shine leads into any followup ever. Pressure is really tough for us to deal with and that's what spacies are all about.
I main Link with a bit of a Lucario [it's really bad but only like one guy around here plays Lucario and he's not that good so my Lucario seems usable when it shouldn't be], so I'll offer my thoughts.I personally need help on the Link MU. I've been a huge Lucario player and have made name for myself in the North Jersey scene but my close friend uses Link I cannot seem to be able to beat him. It might be from the massive amount of experience from just playing me but not being able to take a game off of him is getting annoying. Its usually his projectiles that stop my pressure and momentum. Any ideas?
I main Link with a bit of a Lucario [it's really bad but only like one guy around here plays Lucario and he's not that good so my Lucario seems usable when it shouldn't be], so I'll offer my thoughts.
Good Link mains will zone you and run away like they will literally die if you get within 3 feet of them without a hitbox active [ie nair or maybe fair]... because that really should be the case.
I think Link wins the MU because Lucario has to work so hard just to get in. But Link is utter combo fodder - heavy, so not sent too far, falls rather fast, but slow enough to stay airborne for easy followups/not get in a CCing position. You can CC his dsmash and I think his dtilt is just too slow to be an effective CC counter [CCC?], so if you hit him, he basically HAS to SDI.
All that said, Link's boomerang can save him when a combo starts [you can try to clank it while behind you with some fancy shenanigans... maybe] and if he's holding a bomb that screws things up, but keeping that stuff is easier said than done.
Link can combo Lucario decently and Link's projectiles do set up for followups, but unlike vs Fox where Link really should take every opportunity, careful zoning means we shouldn't get hit really ever [as compared to Fox], and the punish game is just as harsh, if not harsher [despite waveshining existing, Lucario combos are a Link nightmare]. So if you DI everything really well [bombs and rangs], you'll just get zoned forever. if you DI poorly, you'll get combo'd.
If the PMBR made a Link that only spammed projectiles, Lucario mains could rejoice and practice, but as it stands... practice is unlikely unless you have a projectile-heavy Link you can practice against.
Oh, and if Link stands still, walks forward slowly, or ducks, his shield blocks a ground-level super aura sphere [I don't know if you can fire it at a height where this doesn't work]. This is of course impractical, but it can happen.
My advice then: Make every hit count big time. Aura charges should nearly always be saved for approaching, unless you have that last stock force palm kill, or can generate a huge lead in killing right away [i.e. an offstage super force palm while Link's at lowish percents] - I think that if you can make a kill but you're already at high percents, it may be better to just save that charge and either CC for the KO next stock [CC usmash or whatever] or try to win neutral/extend combo and take the lead while saving the aura, but it's a thing you have to feel out. I think in this MU more than almost any other, aura bomb is not very useful, since if you use it and he hits you away, he can walk up to it and it'll disappear.
Double team through projectiles is SUPER predictable [every Link with MU experience expects it], but at some points it's probably just the best option, especially if the rang's gone behind him [i.e. he doesn't have it] and you're going through a bomb - he has to run away [and stage control is good, cornering him is vital] or else start sword swings, and you can safely CC everything but fsmash and I guess fair/dair [but just hit him out of dair or shield it and try to start offense from that - fair is pretty good on shield but his jab is slow and grab is really slow].
Look to CC to get in - Link's only good anti-CC tools are his rapid jab, [SDI away or maybe try to roll through, but messing up the roll through quickly adds a lot of percent] fsmash, and projectiles - you can [and should] CC basically everything else [dtilt does work but it's a little slow, as mentioned earlier].
Aura sphere can edgeguard a non-sweetspotted recovery, and if you have any anti-tether tech that's good, but I personally love Lucario's dair for hitting people out of tethers [or just grab ledge of course]. Throwing Link offstage is really good for anyone, and Lucario is no exception.
If the Link is aggressive, slightly DIing projectiles so that you are just out of range of a followup [but maybe look in range] may cause a Link player to overextend with dair or something. This is obviously risky [if you screw up you get dair'd], but dair has 20 frames of l-cancelled landing lag, so you could definitely punish. A patient Link will just pull a bomb [or only go for fair or zair, since they're long-range], but knowing your opponent and baiting bad moves is essential, and this is a thing that's Link-specific and therefore worth mentioning.
If you want more advice or clarification, tag me or quote me or something. There are other Link or Lucario players who can probably help better, but I'm willing to which is why I say this.
Press a lot of buttons, always buffer rolls and dodges if you're planning to shield, crouch cancel every chance you get.What is the main goal against Lucario, just space?
I would argue 55-45 in Marth's favor, for reasons you mention already. It is generally very hard to get in on a Marth due to disjoints and his insane grab game off Lucario (easy combo weight). In my experience, comboing Marth is slightly difficult. Once you get going though, it's hard to stop.Ok well can we start this thread ripping?
I suggest Lucario / Marth.
I feel like Marth has the upper hand here.
Every Marth I have played spaces me out with SH FAir and DTilt. My main approach it limited to Supers, AS camping plus the old wait and bait for punishes.
Does anyone else have some insight?