lucarios recoveries sucks

[Jacob the JesusFreak]

you can attack out of a wall cling...

 

[TrevynThOt]

lol jesus freak that scene you told me to watch the rob could easyly fallin off and N aired covering all the that and what you don't think rob can't recover that either probably though, nessbounder yeah your right about everything his recovery is ok. wall cling is useful on 2 stages i don't find myself in postions to use it much at all anywayz so stating that his recovery is good cause of wall cling is a terrible reason but whatever I've been playing forward alot(since he lives right by me) he edge guards me real well it's annoying everything i have to up B. you guys won't relize it til you play someone good so theres no need explaining it anymore whatever

 

[BlazE NY]

lol I'm starting to think TrevynThOt is one smart TROLLER,

yes I agree that there should be no further explanation to the TROLLER,

the fact that hes saying you guys don't play with someone as good as the people he played with

 

[~Shin~]

Lucario's recovery isn't great. It's about average in my book

I just got back from a very good tourny, and I have to say, I agree with this statement nessbounder. I had my recovery gimped a lot, BUT, I did impress people with Wall-clinging on Final Destination, jumping off that little spot, f-airing people hanging, and getting back up. or jumping up with a back-air buffering as I climb up the curve to hit people charing attacks on the edge.

Our recovery isn't the best, but It certainly could be better. I hate that start-up lag, i'm almost always recovering from wall-clinging because If I go over my opponent, and over the edge and bounce down onto land, I get punished by a short-hop knee or something, ya know?

Anyway
I think the main thing I need to work on is not suiciding myself. I got 3'd place in teams because I was throwing out WAY too many aura-spheres thinking I was -helping- but in reality I was gimping my partners combo's and killing him more than I was interrupting my opponents, there is a time and place, and I REALLY need to learn it. (more of a 1-1 thing anyway) AND I was killing myself with my recovery.

Often times I would go out and do like 6 f-air juggles and not be able to make it back from the string of hits because my recovery doesn't go that far. I mean, its fun, but, yea...

If I get good, I could probably still do my huge string of f-airs, and just ride my opponents recovery move back. I mean, if its like Link, I can get chopped a little for the sake of doing two recoveries and actually GET BACK.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Don't complain...

You could have had a tether recovery..

 

[JJ259]

I wish that he would at least learn to add periods to his rants. If he started doing that as well as started actually learning how to recover with lucario rather than *****ing about it we might get some progress here...

 

[Trapt497]

^^ lol this man speaks the truth ^^

@NESSBOUNDER: So you think the true weakness is the lag time before extremespeed is carried out? Do you think it really matters that it isnt an attack?

 

[JJ259]

I think what nessbounder was getting at is that the true ability to gimp his extreme speed comes from the startup lag not the fact that it isn't an attack. There is obviously a bigger chance of getting edge hogged verses other characters but thinking about it, even characters who do have an attack with their upBs still can get edge hogged with decent timing. Also, at least we have wall cling and on at least 2 of the "neutral" stages (FD and yoshi story) we are able to recover without even hitting the edge.

 

[Nodrak]

My main opponent is pit, though my other friends play a variety of characters. The no-attack part means nothing. Take a little punish from landing/edgegrabbing, it's what you get for being knocked off =P
The biggest problem I've had (especially from my friend's Pit, his arrows are a *****) is people hitting me on upB's startup.

 

[G-Beast]

unless your really far out+high up the arrows shouldnt matter... just air dodge them or mid air jump over them... double team works too for getting onto the ledge

 

[Trapt497]

I think what nessbounder was getting at is that the true ability to gimp his extreme speed comes from the startup lag not the fact that it isn't an attack. There is obviously a bigger chance of getting edge hogged verses other characters but thinking about it, even characters who do have an attack with their upBs still can get edge hogged with decent timing. Also, at least we have wall cling and on at least 2 of the "neutral" stages (FD and yoshi story) we are able to recover without even hitting the edge.

Thanks for replying.

Hmm. I agree with the "even characters with an attack" statement.

The dude-who-started-this-thread's point with the wallgrab was it sets you up to get spiked. But I dont think there is a single good lucario player out there who doesnt think about all the possible scenarios (spiking included), and tries to avoid them. I personally neutral air or b-air just in case they attempt that.

I feel really noobish for asking this. But I dont know what gimping is. What does it mean to gimp? Help a brother out please???

 

[Nodrak]

Gimping isn't anything spicific. Think of it this way, you're playing against pit. You boot him off the edge, he tries to upB to recover, you fair him and he loses his only means of getting back. That is gimping. You dont spike, smash or anything, you just hit him enough so that he cant get back onto the stage on his own.

 

[Evan BlazE]

Gimping isn't anything spicific. Think of it this way, you're playing against pit. You boot him off the edge, he tries to upB to recover, you fair him and he loses his only means of getting back. That is gimping. You dont spike, smash or anything, you just hit him enough so that he cant get back onto the stage on his own.

isn't that edge guarding ... ?

 

[Tallen]

when pit uses his upb and is hit before he reaches the ground he cant double-jump OR use his upb again.
so if you hit him with aura sphere just as he is about to land he is at your utmost mercy. I guess that is what he meant Evan

 

[Trapt497]

Gimping isn't anything spicific. Think of it this way, you're playing against pit. You boot him off the edge, he tries to upB to recover, you fair him and he loses his only means of getting back. That is gimping. You dont spike, smash or anything, you just hit him enough so that he cant get back onto the stage on his own.

when pit uses his upb and is hit before he reaches the ground he cant double-jump OR use his upb again.
so if you hit him with aura sphere just as he is about to land he is at your utmost mercy. I guess that is what he meant Evan

Hmm...i kinda get it. Thanks. I should probably youtube it too. Did the name come from gimpyfish?

And also even if the startup lag makes it easier to gimp there are other methods to avoid it probably. But I won't say for sure until I know 100% what gimping is.

 

[JJ259]

Gimping is basically just stopping someone from returning to the edge of the stage, or at least that's what it seems to be. I think gimping, in general, is just the combination of edge guarding, edge hogging and chasing people off the edge of the screen.

Basically gimping (screwing up) their recovery.

 

[Nodrak]

It would help if 'Gimp" was an actual word with a definition and not just slang =S
Closest definition I can think of is to make something useless. If you break your arm, it's 'gimped' and you cant use it. If you gimp someone's recovery, they cant recover.

 

[Milln]

My understanding of gimping is doing something to them during their recovery move to make it not reach the edge and ultimately kill them through their own recovery.

Examples: Grabbing Snake or his Cypher out of his Cypher.
Turning Fox/Falco/Wolf/anyone with a directional recovery around with Mario's Cape or Pit's Mirror Shield
Jumping in front of Ike's Quick Draw off the stage so he stops early and falls.

Stuff like that.

 

[AzN_Lep]

Trevyn, what happened to your Zarelid account? LOL at comin in here looking like a brawl noob and getting flamed.

 

[Trapt497]

sounds to me like "gimping" isnt a very specific term. But whatever.

Anyways, back on topic, what was this thread about again?

Oh yeah. Some guy who sucks with Lucario said his recovery sucks.

So...back on topic...

Lucario's recovery doesn't suck at all :D

 

[salaboB]

sounds to me like "gimping" isnt a very specific term. But whatever.

Gimping is when you make someone unable to recover by interfering with their actual recovery attempt (Hard moves to gimp are ones with high priority/hit boxes, or are otherwise hard to directly knock them out of).

This is different from spiking where you outright kill them with the downward hit, guarding where you smack them as they try to come in, and edge hogging where you short circuit their attempts to grab the edge. Guarding can include gimping their recovery, but I'm pretty sure gimping means you actually interrupted their move or otherwise caused it to fail in a manner that doesn't have a specific term for it so it's not quite the same as just guarding.

The examples so far have been pretty clear about it though, things like getting hit with a projectile while Lucario's up-B is initially activating, or pinging Pit so he falls to his doom after using his up-B count as gimping them.

 

[Trapt497]

ok ok got it thanks.

So how, for example, is extreme speed easy to gimp?

 

[Nodrak]

Enemy edgehogging you: assuming you cant cling to a wall or make it onto the stage
Pit's arrows: if the pit user know's what he's doing, he can hit you repeatedly when you try to startup the extreemspeed. A friend of mine did that after i used my second jump and used his arrows to follow me right to the bottom of the stage to my death.

 

[salaboB]

ok ok got it thanks.

So how, for example, is extreme speed easy to gimp?

Long startup time and being able to be hit while in it, with no hitbox from the attack to provide any protection.

Basically, you're a sitting duck if the enemy has anything they can reach you with, and if they have a pinging attack that reaches they can keep tagging you and slowly drop you off the level as you try to activate it.

 

[Jacob the JesusFreak]

Enemy edgehogging you: assuming you cant cling to a wall or make it onto the stage
Pit's arrows: if the pit user know's what he's doing, he can hit you repeatedly when you try to startup the extreemspeed. A friend of mine did that after i used my second jump and used his arrows to follow me right to the bottom of the stage to my death.

you should have dodged. Yeah I forget sometimes that you can do that and then move again.

 

[A New England Winter]

I made the bad mistake of DTing an arrow while facing the stage. Ended up flying off into the corner to my oblivion. >_< ExtremeSpeed didn't save me then.

But then again, ES has saved me many other times, even when it seemed like I was to be edgeguarded. Wallcling = YES.

 

[Elec Man EXE]

Speaking of wall cling... does anyone have a list of exactly what stages you can actually use wall clinging successfully? Some of them are obvious, but others not so much. I'd just like a list so I can get an idea of everyplace to use it, and where not to. I don't use Wall Cling nearly enough, half because I don't know for sure it'll actually work on a given stage and I'd rather not risk it. And the people I play don't edgehog much, so I haven't seen much need for it, but I ought to learn it anyway for when I start battling a wider selection of opponents.

 

[G-Beast]

well you can do it on all of the neutral stages that im aware of, thats really all taht should matter but you cannot do it on brinstar for example... you need to have solid walls that you can't go through

 

[Nodrak]

Bridge of Eldin - when the bridge is broken
Castle Siege - first stage, all of the right side and under the lip of the left side
Delfino Plaza - the pool, the edges of the island (though useless)
Distant Planet - flat wall where the water falls
Final Destination - tricky, but edges slightly below the lip.
Frigate Orpheon - the edges, expesially the one characters cant grab
Green Hill Zone - when the stage breaks, the hole
Mushroomy Kingdom - anything flat: pipes, bricks, holes ect
New Pork City - I honestly havent tried everywhere in this place but any flat wall will do it
PictoChat - sides and random drawings
Pirate Ship - when the ship hits a rock
Port Town Aero Dive - round thing in one of the locations
Rumble Falls - flat blocks
Shadow Moses Island - the walls
Summit - flat wall on left
WarioWare - edges
Yoshi's Island - edges
Corneria - right edge and back of the tailfin
Green Greens - holes and left/right edges
Onett - houses
Pokémon Stadium - under the lip there's a flat wall, can also wall jump from the part below it
Rainbow Cruise - flat blocks and the back of the ship
Temple - round thing at the bottom
Yoshi's Island - left side and center

 

[Not-Beef]

You think Lucario's recovery is bad? Try maining Mario.

 

[Trapt497]

^^lol this is true

Bridge of Eldin - when the bridge is broken
Castle Siege - first stage, all of the right side and under the lip of the left side
Delfino Plaza - the pool, the edges of the island (though useless)
Distant Planet - flat wall where the water falls
Final Destination - tricky, but edges slightly below the lip.
Frigate Orpheon - the edges, expesially the one characters cant grab
Green Hill Zone - when the stage breaks, the hole
Mushroomy Kingdom - anything flat: pipes, bricks, holes ect
New Pork City - I honestly havent tried everywhere in this place but any flat wall will do it
PictoChat - sides and random drawings
Pirate Ship - when the ship hits a rock
Port Town Aero Dive - round thing in one of the locations
Rumble Falls - flat blocks
Shadow Moses Island - the walls
Summit - flat wall on left
WarioWare - edges
Yoshi's Island - edges
Corneria - right edge and back of the tailfin
Green Greens - holes and left/right edges
Onett - houses
Pokémon Stadium - under the lip there's a flat wall, can also wall jump from the part below it
Rainbow Cruise - flat blocks and the back of the ship
Temple - round thing at the bottom
Yoshi's Island - left side and center

Thanks for the very helpful list. Im definetly coming back to it for future reference.

And thanks everyone for helping me out with the gimping info.