Lucas fair

[PK Starstorm]

Aka the Psi kick. I love this move alot, but often get shield grabbed by using it to much. This move is fast hits for medium knockback, as seen in vids can be used to WOP and I think is a bit on the disjointed side. Any advice on good times to use this. you can also comment why you like this move or a better aerial option.

 

[ZMan]

i like retreating fairs

i use it for aerial spacing

 

[ParanoidDrone]

IIRC, the hitbox stays in place once it comes out, as opposed to moving with Lucas. This means that you can use it while moving backwards for a bit of extra range.

 

[Levitas]

Use it against people who approach from the air. Like peach.

 

[Cloake]

Also bad landing lag. If you don't want to get punished from a SH Fair, you best Fair immediately off the ground.

 

[:mad:]

Actually, it doesn't even kill at 150%.
I use it to rack up damage. And it also helps the moves I've probably staled.

 

[Irsic]

Actually, if you're not short hopping it, you can combo fair into uair at really low % near the ground, when uair is close enough to the ground, the attack will come out and it autocancels.

 

[xoxokev]

use it to edgegaurd

 

[:mad:]

Why use fair as an edgeguard when you have PK Freeze/PKT?

 

[ToxiCrow]

Why use fair as an edgeguard when you have PK Freeze/PKT?

because sometimes they dont get the job done

 

[clowsui]

fair is occasionally good, tyr only really gets it to work on me as a mixup w/ pkt and bair

don't use it too much, if ppl see it coming they can just AD and your ending lag is bad enough where it's kind of disadvantageous because you're out there

though the disadvantage part may be because i play marth and falco who are both mobile + fast in the air

 

[xoxokev]

Why use fair as an edgeguard when you have PK Freeze/PKT?

bc it has good horizontal knockback?

 

[Levitas]

I feel obligated to say that at low %, it can set up a dtilt lock.

 

[:mad:]

bc it has good horizontal knockback?

... your mothe -
Heha, I rarely use it for edgeguarding.

 

[Tyr_03]

Get a life Clowsui

 

[Attila_]

Use it against people who approach from the air. Like peach.

not really. peach's fair goes straight though lucas', and has a lot more knockback. this doesnt work against any peach who knows what they're doing...

use it to edgegaurd

yes. i find espc that running off the edge, or using it right after double jump (ie while rising) catches a lot of people off guard. very nice range.

Why use fair as an edgeguard when you have PK Freeze/PKT?

cause they rarely kill, can be dodged without a chance for followup, and potentially leave lucas open, unlike fair.

 

[:mad:]

PKT kills way more than fair ever will. It just doesn't have that kind of knockback.
They won't leave him open for attack if you circle it, when recovering, they have no choice but to hit it.

PKT sets up for gimps. That's what it's most known for.

 

[akkon888]

You can walkoff F-Air I guess. I saturate my attack patterns with it when fighting against heavier people, as I can tend to hit them twice with it. It's a very fast attack in the air, although as Irsic said, it has tremendous landing lag, so only use it when you first jump off the ground or are high in the air. I forgot to mention that I use this to prevent edgeguards.

 

[Attila_]

lol, main snake for a while then talk to me about tremendous landing lag

ah yes, very useful from coming up from the edge

 

[Irsic]

not really. peach's fair goes straight though lucas', and has a lot more knockback. this doesnt work against any peach who knows what they're doing...

So wrong. Lucas' fair has great range and easily SH fair peach before she can do anything if she floats close to the ground, otherwise you just camp with PKFire. If Peach was able to stop it, they would, and fair comes out quite quickly and Peach can't do anything about it besides mindgame you, which is basically a meaningless word.

I guess I'd rather say if Peach baits a fair, then yeah, she will get to counter-fair you.

 

[Attila_]

So wrong. Lucas' fair has great range and easily SH fair peach before she can do anything if she floats close to the ground, otherwise you just camp with PKFire. If Peach was able to stop it, they would, and fair comes out quite quickly and Peach can't do anything about it besides mindgame you, which is basically a meaningless word.

I guess I'd rather say if Peach baits a fair, then yeah, she will get to counter-fair you.

you can generally assume she'll be waiting cause she lives in the air, and autocancels her fair really well. i dont think pk fire is better than turnips, but thats my personal opinion (last time i played this matchup in a tourny she also pulled out 2 beam swords and a bomb). and peach's fair also has incredible (and rather broken) range and priority, autocancels and kos at decent damage...

there is a reason why its 60:40 in peach's favour...

 

[:mad:]

You act like maining Snake is a bad thing... like there's so many problems with your character. Lucky *******.

Peach relies on lolcomboes when floating to rack up enough damage to kill with fair. There's not much else she can do besides use her amazing aerials. If you can just avoid the dair, it's really not 60:40.

She dies much earlier than Lucas, because he has some great smashes. SH Float can be stopped by a dsmash, no joke. And dsmash outranges her fair, so try again.

We're not talking about Peach vs. Lucas, by the way. This is a Lucas fair discussion, get back on topic, please.

 

[Attila_]

lol maining snake is awesome, but he's not without his flaws.

my point was while lucas' fair is pretty amazing, peach's fair is more amazing.

 

[:mad:]

Congratulations, if I were to say "You know that Snake main?", pretty much anyone would go "Yeah, which one?!".

Your pros outweight your cons, don't make it sound like Snake's bad.

Also, I appreciate you pointing out the obvious.
Peach is still a woman that gardens.

 

[Attila_]

no need to be rude, straked, i was trying to contribute to this thread. i'm pretty sure by saying maining snake is awesome im attempting to say that maining him isnt a bad thing.

also, i appreciate you miscontruing the obvious

and the peach vs lucas matchup is one that i have a fair bit of experience in, so i know peach fair > lucas fair. thats essentially what i came here to say.

 

[Levitas]

shmot, peach v lucas is a matchup that I have a lot of experience in as well. lucas's fair hits earlier (though not quite fast enough to do on reaction to seeing her start a fair), and has more range when telegraphed fully. Additionally, you can throw off the peaches sense of timing on the fair by training her to attempt to hit a retreating target and then FH fairing at her to get her to fair late.

The reason FH fair is important in the peach matchup is not because of her fair though, it's because of her dair. Lucas cannot beat it outright. He NEEDS to work around it, which means if she's already started her dair and is in the correct place, he needs to turtle or retreat to avoid the inevitable combo. If he can predict it, FH fair wins.

But overall, you're mostly right. If I see a peach fair headed my way, I'm not gonna try to beat it with my fair unless I know when and where it's coming from ahead of time. I'll retreat with a PK fire on reaction. That doesn't change the fact that fair is important against those who come from the air, including peach, for other reasons.

 

[Attila_]

thanks for clearing that up, levitas. i managed to win the last low tier tourny i entered with lucas, which a peach main coming second. constant retreating made the matches last forever... i still love lucas' fair, for the record

 

[Levitas]

lol, nice

 

[Irsic]

I have tons of Peach experience as well.

And shmot, while turnips are great and much more spammable than PK Fire, she can't pull turnips out while she's floating.

 

[Chuee]

PKF beats turnips if they collide.
Why?
because if PKF hits a turnip, the turnip stops, the flames of PKF come out and if peach is close enough she gets hit. I discovered that while fighting a pika
PKF > All

 

[~Nasty~]

Why use fair as an edgeguard when you have PK Freeze/PKT?

what i do sometimes is SH Fair on the stage when the person is off the stage coming from above it to grab the ledge. i do it with no intentions of hitting them. it mindgames them and they might airdodge, missing the ledge. It's hilarious when you do a move just to cause them to mess up and hear them cry about it. Mindgames FTW

 

[Irsic]

PKF pretty much beats everything, except another PKF, where they trade hits.

(I also think it loses to fully charged aura sphere and charged shot)

 

[Levitas]

It loses to a full needle storm... somewhat.

It loses to pk flash if you're dumb.

It flat out loses to din's fire.

Wait a minute, isn't this a thread about lucas's fair?

 

[Irsic]

Din's Fire and PK Flash don't count. <_< They're projectiles you can't hit.

 

[Noraa]

i guess i need to fair more =/

 

[c3gill]

It loses to pk flash if you're dumb.

It flat out loses to din's fire.

Isnt that why we have PSI Mag?

I like killing projectiles with fair, especially when the other person is enjoying invincibility. Samus comes to mind, and as you cannot reflect missles back while in the air, fair can save you some worthless damage.

 

[PK Starstorm]

I find the lag to not be that bad. I saw a combo in some vid where they sh a fair, ff, and then went into a sh nair. I use it all the time. The lag can be a bit bad sometimes, but if you use the spacing well that is always discussed on these forums, you cant' go wrong. i really like to retreat it. or fast fall it with a hit from the semisweet spot. it shocks them away with a light hit and then you can follow up.