Lucas Tournament Results! Updated (6/28)

[Tyr_03]

OS hardly plays ROB anymore. He almost exclusively plays Metaknight now. I still maintain that Lucas vs. ROB is an even matchup. The few matches I had against his ROB last night were very close and about even between us, but those were mostly friendlies.

APC: Your tier list is ****ed up. Anyone who can't see that Metaknight is God in this game has never played a good Metaknight.

 

[prOAPC]

here are few MK, and the best MK so far is K1000o's, and he has just started with him, actually, his main is Marth, so, you see...

 

[Chuee]

ehh my fu**ing state has like NO tournies lol but ill try to find something.

 

[QUIVO]

Hey tyr i thought I won 2-0. I won on battlefield and you cp'ed brinstar in which I dominated on : )

Your lucas has gotten so much better btw

 

[Tyr_03]

lol Oh yeah I remember. I'll fix it. I hardly ever lose Brinstar

And thanks. Your Toon Link is too good. Definetly one of the best if not the best. You should have beaten OS.

 

[QUIVO]

Yea, I have johns but I'm not going to make them.

Btw, I wish I would've watched more of your matches against other people. I'd love to give tips sometime. Also when you play against tactical, you just have to know when and how he rolls. If you figure it out its so much easier.

 

[Tyr_03]

Yeah my matches against him were pretty embarassingly bad for some reason. Kept making the same mistakes. I'd love some pointers any time you're willing to give them. Especially if you have any on how to help me beat Metaknight.

 

[ZMan]

Need some help beating MK, Tyr? Just pick MK, lulz.

 

[Tyr_03]

My Metaknight is not as good as Overswarm's. Plus it's always ten times more fun beating anyone with low tier.

 

[ZMan]

True. Really against MK as Lucas just play smarter and more patiently than you normally would. Captilize on any mistakes MK might make and then do your best to get in quick and effective attacks.

take this info with a grain a salt, though. MK is banned in NM so I haven't played any MKs in a while.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

PK Fire
jab
ftilt
nair
pkt edgeguard
fsmash
that's about all we have for MK
those are pretty much the only moves that are even viable against him. pk fire is key in this matchup. racks up alot of damage and spaces well. i actually like wavebouncing in this matchup, but thats just me. anyway retreating pk fire works well. jab/ftilt when he gets close. if he gets offstage PKT to edgeguard should work pretty well. i'm not sure on this but i think he could shuttle loop the head of it and use his invicible frames (which is the same as when the attack comes out, frame 5) to cancel out the pkt, or swipe at it with his stupid sword. fsmash to kill obviously. nair.. well you know the drill with nair.

sometimes you can use
dair
dsmash
uair
dtilt
those really are moves i wouldn't advise using because they lead to heavy punishment against MK/ dair is only for punishing tornado attempts any other use is bad; being above MK is a terrible idea. dsmash is the obvious spotdodge punisher. uair to try and keep a juggle going... too bad a dair from mk will end those hopes lol. if you're good enough with dtilt use it once to stop a move like dsmash/fsmash pretty much anymove that takes 3 frames or longer to come out. i usually use it once then immediately jab.

note: you may get lucky and land a well placed and timed usmash when you see them try to shuttle loop into glide attack.


that's just how i play them. i actually do pretty well.

 

[Tyr_03]

Hopefully Overswarm will upload the vids against him from the other night soon. I have some ideas on how I can counter a lot of his moves but I need another look to see what worked and what didn't. I rarely get practice against MK oddly enough.

So far I know,
Dair counters Shuttle Loop if you time it right
Lucas has no good aerial options against the tornado
PK Fire, dash attack, Dsmash and Usmash are reliable tornado stoppers depending on spacing
Fair is the only anti edgeguard option
Tether will not get you back onto the stage safely
Bair outranges his glide attack if you space perfectly
PKT1 is generally the best edgeguarding option
You are never safe across stage, in fact you may be safer right next to MK where you can outprioritize with jabs.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

ya like tyr said down air beats shuttle loop if you learn the spacing for it, but you dont ever want to be in the air against a meta knight unless you are below him and even then it risky as hell. If you have been thrown off stage my mk then best way Ive fund to get him away is to keep falling pretty far down to force him to follow you. Then use your second jump + up air which almost always beats his down air if spaced right. Or you could use zap jump but then mk can just fly up to you. Depends on the situation

 

[Tyr_03]

I'm really hoping we can get some good analysis of these vids against MK. Overswarm knows what he's doing. I'd fight his ROB over his MK any day. There should be atleast 6 videos of me against him if he uploads them.

 

[prOAPC]

stay in the ground, save your smashes until they can KO, when they hit, maybe it's the last smash you'll hit in the match, i use bair, rar uair and fair to stop the glide attack, wavebouncing pk fire is really good if playing defensively, the key in this match up

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Hopefully Overswarm will upload the vids against him from the other night soon. I have some ideas on how I can counter a lot of his moves but I need another look to see what worked and what didn't. I rarely get practice against MK oddly enough.

So far I know,
Dair counters Shuttle Loop if you time it right

almost anything outprioritizes shuttle loop if you're directly above him when he does it.

Lucas has no good aerial options against the tornado
PK Fire, dash attack, Dsmash and Usmash are reliable tornado stoppers depending on spacing

if you get hit by the tornado DI upwards and dair on him. it'll stop it.

Fair is the only anti edgeguard option
Tether will not get you back onto the stage safely

agreed.

Bair outranges his glide attack if you space perfectly

didn't know that...

PKT1 is generally the best edgeguarding option

also agreed.

You are never safe across stage, in fact you may be safer right next to MK where you can outprioritize with jabs.

ehh idk about this i tend to think being in mid range is a good zone for me. i can retreat pk fires safely and approach easily if i need to. only reaon i pk fire so much is to refresh my moves while i rack up damage and space.
if you know they'll approach you while they're across stage then you should PK freeze on yourself. it's pretty safe.

 

[Tyr_03]

Dair will not always stop the tornado. It only stops it if you're directly above Metaknight. If it's to the side at all it does nothing. It's not very reliable for escaping.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

neutral air is probably the best air attack that stops tornado quite often from almost any angle.

 

[heytallman]

Why are we talking about the MK matchup in a tournament placing thread? This doesn't belong here, sorry to be a vigilante mod.

 

[Tyr_03]

I'll have to try Nair more. Most things generally haven't been working for me. I don't really understand why Nair would work since it has the lowest priority of any of Lucas's aerials atleast until the final hit.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

I'll have to try Nair more. Most things generally haven't been working for me. I don't really understand why Nair would work since it has the lowest priority of any of Lucas's aerials atleast until the final hit.

trust me. The best MK in my crew and I were testing these things out...both of us thought that down air would be the best option to get through his tornado but found that it rarely breaks through. Then he started comming at me with tornado and was about to do a foward air but accidentally did a neutral air and it stopped the tornado. It also breaks it from the top from almost any angle which makes it the best option when trying to escape it

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

trust me. The best MK in my crew and I were testing these things out...both of us thought that down air would be the best option to get through his tornado but found that it rarely breaks through. Then he started comming at me with tornado and was about to do a foward air but accidentally did a neutral air and it stopped the tornado. It also breaks it from the top from almost any angle which makes it the best option when trying to escape it

nair works from the top corners and directly above him. same for dair. the reason it seems easier for nair is because of the spacing needed for dair's hitbox to hit mk and not lucas' hurtbox. if you clank with the first hit of the dair you have to wait for the 2nd hitbox to come out and you'll only have a hurtbox, so you'll probably get hit. for nair it's different because (believe it or not) nair outprioritizes the nado. the speed that the hitboxes come out are way faster than dair so you can just fall on him with nair.
nado's priority is only ridiculously high from the sides and under him. oh and PKT can beat it too. do not try to just SH nair him out of it, it just won't work. FH nair works.

 

[Tyr_03]

Hmm good things to know. And the epic battle of every character against Metaknight continues.

The next thing I want to look into are ways to get past his ledgecamping. Specifically, I'm wondering if you can shield his shuttleloop and punish with anything. Ledgewhipping from a distance works decently but it's high risk and low payout.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

Hmm good things to know. And the epic battle of every character against Metaknight continues.

The next thing I want to look into are ways to get past his ledgecamping. Specifically, I'm wondering if you can shield his shuttleloop and punish with anything. Ledgewhipping from a distance works decently but it's high risk and low payout.

exactly how is he ledgecamping?

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

exactly how is he ledgecamping?

watch any video of plank and you will see how mk ledgecamps XD

 

[Tyr_03]

Waiting on the ledge renewing invincibility frames. If you get close he shuttleloops you or ledgehopped aerials. If you back off you give him room to start up a glide into glide attack which is way too good. Basically playing like Plank does. Ledgewhipping works decently but if he times his invincibility frames he can get past it and punish.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

watch any video of plank and you will see how mk ledgecamps XD

oh gosh planking...
*goes to watch vids and looks for a possible counter*


EDIT: OHHHHHHH that...
we can uhm... mindgame him!
other than that we have no "safe" options. PKT mindgames FTW!

 

[Levitas]

Waiting on the ledge renewing invincibility frames. If you get close he shuttleloops you or ledgehopped aerials. If you back off you give him room to start up a glide into glide attack which is way too good. Basically playing like Plank does. Ledgewhipping works decently but if he times his invincibility frames he can get past it and punish.

Lucas's best option here is to back off and let him get his ****ing glide.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

<3 Plank.

10planks.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

back to the point of this thread o_O

I placed 7th out of 16 at a small KC Tourney

The thread was turned into the KC brawlers thread so it doesnt have anything about the tourney anymore but heres the link to the page where the results were posted

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=206704&highlight=kansas+city&page=5

 

[Noraa]

This will be updated today.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

<3 Noraa

10Noraas

 

[Tyr_03]

Do Galeon and Seanson still play Lucas? I haven't seen anything from them in a while.

 

[ChaosTheoryX]

ya I was wondering the same thing

 

[ZMan]

I think Galeon still plays but he doesn't come on the boards as much. Seanson hasn't been heard from since September.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

List of Oats' Favorite Lucas':

1) Ok1n
2) Shook

Used to be:

1) Seanson
2) Ok1n
3) Shook

until Seanson disappeared.

 

[Noraa]

Noraa:: 2nd/42

Was at a local game store in little rock arkansas. (vids will be up by tmrw)


SmasherBack

1st- Gizmo (Wario)
2nd - Noraa (Lucas)
3rd - Vts (Snake/Zss)
4th - Ryuk (Mk)
5th - Sandman (Mk/Falco)

 

[Noraa]

*Updated

10chars

 

[Tyr_03]

lol I managed to stay above Chaos. Yay for .25 points.

 

[Noraa]

yeah i was like **** its close lol