Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

[Vist]

I never tried it but what's the advantage over doing regular CCing when WD-ing?

It seems difficult to quickly attack or grab if your right thumb is occupied holding the cstick as opposed to holding down the control stick with the left thumb. It would be easier to DI if need be tho...

 

[Winston]

I mean it's not possible to press down on the control stick when WDing right? Since you have to press the control stick to the side? At least at the beginning of the WD.

 

[Vist]

seems pretty hard to do and to actually make use of it, i'll have to try it out thozzz

 

[Winston]

Yeah I was thinking it was pretty hard to do with the normal way of WDing, but what's harder, Cstick down or moving the control stick from the side to down? I don't know actually...

Also it's not that bad for me because I WD with the control stick.

Smash God does too I think lol

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I do EVERYTHING with the control stick.

Including fireballs.

 

[COEY]

I do EVERYTHING with the control stick.

Including fireballs.

i shield, l cancel and taunt with the control stick, are you the same?

 

[Vist]

I use the control stick to breathe

not to eat tho, I use Y for that

 

[Rappster]

I use the control stick to breathe

not to eat tho, I use Y for that

it's all about x, fool.
it makes short hops and burgers with all the taste but half the calories.

 

[Dynamism?]

I love X
I comes with X amount of awesome, X being infinite.

 

[Chillipepper]

I like X too. Lots of it. LOTS.

JK

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I like Y? Y?

Because I love you...

M-O-U-S-E!

 

[Dynamism?]

I only like Y cause girls are hot

 

[COEY]

was that a chromosome reference?

and what has happened to this lovely thread?

can someone give me a little advice on playing against marth, approaching mostly seems like a bad idea, unless you catch him off guard. also when to break off combos cause his fair is a pain for ruining things that could be oh so lovely.

 

[Ch3s]

was that a chromosome reference?

and what has happened to this lovely thread?

can someone give me a little advice on playing against marth, approaching mostly seems like a bad idea, unless you catch him off guard. also when to break off combos cause his fair is a pain for ruining things that could be oh so lovely.

this. Except ive been trying to watch how people get under marths fair, and the only thing ive managed to do is duck a wavedash under it while he does a rising fair (thats only if your lucky enuf for him to do a full hop or dj.) So what im asking is how to get past marths fair wall, since u cant beat it it seems.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

this. Except ive been trying to watch how people get under marths fair, and the only thing ive managed to do is duck a wavedash under it while he does a rising fair (thats only if your lucky enuf for him to do a full hop or dj.) So what im asking is how to get past marths fair wall, since u cant beat it it seems.

What about powershielding it and then grabbing? :S

 

[COEY]

my other problem is that marth completely messes up my spacing game cause even when i would be out of grab range with everyone else marth still manages to use that horrendous range of his chuck in me about like a rag doll.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

my other problem is that marth completely messes up my spacing game cause even when i would be out of grab range with everyone else marth still manages to use that horrendous range of his chuck in me about like a rag doll.

Marth grabs are indeed truly god like.

Perhaps you should WD fireball if you think you're in danger...

 

[Winston]

I don't think Marth can wall you out with simple fair spam, as fair has lag and it doesn't outrange ftilt. You can time ftilt so it hits him when he lands. If he does a sh early fair you can also hit him before the second one comes out. You'll be wding/moving around outside of his range, but within range of a wd, so it's tricky for him to keep you out with fairs.

What makes the matchup tough imo is dtilt, which clanks with ftilt/dsmash/down b and lets Marth recover first. Also when he grabs -> throws you above him -> keeps you there. Thankfully most marths don't fully abuse these things and so Luigi has a pretty good chance.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I don't think Marth can wall you out with simple fair spam, as fair has lag and it doesn't outrange ftilt. You can time ftilt so it hits him when he lands. If he does a sh early fair you can also hit him before the second one comes out. You'll be wding/moving around outside of his range, but within range of a wd, so it's tricky for him to keep you out with fairs.

What makes the matchup tough imo is dtilt, which clanks with ftilt/dsmash/down b and lets Marth recover first. Also when he grabs -> throws you above him -> keeps you there. Thankfully most marths don't fully abuse these things and so Luigi has a pretty good chance.

Is it possible for Marth to grab Luigi out of a Tilt?

 

[COEY]

i wasnt talking about fair spamming, what annoys me about marths fair is that its so quick and with such range that getting any significant combos in the air is extremely hard. if marth is stood still i wavedash in in my shield, if he attacks you can usually wavedash out of your shield and grab, if he shields you can just grab, either way you get that grab which i think is luigis key to winning pretty much all his math ups.

 

[Winston]

Well I was answering his question about how to deal with fair spamming:

this. Except ive been trying to watch how people get under marths fair, and the only thing ive managed to do is duck a wavedash under it while he does a rising fair (thats only if your lucky enuf for him to do a full hop or dj.) So what im asking is how to get past marths fair wall, since u cant beat it it seems.

As for dealing with fair to break out of combos, well, I don't think you'll ever get a true combo that's longer than 3 hits on marth. However, Luigi has a bunch of 2-3 hit combos on marth that do solid damage and put him in disadvantaged situations from where you can often get another hit. When he's knocked in the air and he has to land he's in a bit of a tough spot, as if he does a move and misses you can wd in and hit him, and you can also get under him to hit him with sh uairs and bairs sometimes.

As for the 2-3 hit combos, at various percents there's
dthrow -> regrab at 0
dthrow -> usmash
dthrow -> dsmash
dsmash -> utilt -> something
dsmash -> chop
dthrow -> chop
dthrow -> uair -> something
uthrow -> uair -> chop
bair -> waveland ftilt
uthrow -> bair -> nair at 0 (not sure if this one works, haven't tried it on humans, but it works on cpus of various levels)
full wd ftilt -> anything. If you go far enough on the wavedash it can combo into goofy stuff like usmash sometimes.

The combos involving uair are obviously DI dependent, but it's good to mix them in because it forces them to guess whether they should be survival or away DIing.

 

[COEY]

yea sorry getting my wires crosssed.

getting under marth with up smashes is nice, just that bit harder to time than the up tilt, tho ive found the utilt to be quite the effective floaty killing weapon.

oh and congratz usa on topping group c in the world cup, beating us on goals scored well done we'll take the bullet for you and take on the germans, good luck with ghana.

 

[Dynamism?]

Just hit him, with mindgames.

Marth dies if he goes in the air before Luigi.

Facts*

 

[Rappster]

one of the best smashers i play on a regular basis mains Link. general pointers?
also, when he misses a grab, is shoryuken the best punish (that also goes for when i shield his upb oos)?

 

[Dynamism?]

shoryuken is never a good punish. (with very few exceptions of course)
Worst UpB in the game (next to Jiggs I guess)

Useless thing...
Grab Link lol

 

[Winston]

What? up b is the best punish by miles if he's in KO range. So yeah, if he misses a grab/you shield his up b oos and he's above 75 or so, up b is a guaranteed kill.

 

[COEY]

up b is only useful in that situation at specific percentages, generally at like 70 to 80% below that and its not gonna kill and is a waste, above and you might as well up smash as its far safer and still a very strong ko move. i agree with dynamism and say grab. i generally like to reserve up b for those out of shield moments, or to be flashy after up throwing a space animal

 

[Winston]

wavedash -> up b is something you should be able to hit consistently, especially if you are playing doubles with Luigi. Usmash is only a guaranteed kill on Link after like 105-110 I think, so there's a big range where you should go for the up b.

I know you don't always want to go for it. I'm just saying in that range, like 75-110 or so (this is stage dependent obviously), up b is by far the best punish.

 

[COEY]

i forgot to mention i was on about a charged upsmash...

tbh just misfire, there you go problem solved....

 

[Winston]

Seriously though, why would you not practice hitting the up b until you can do it reliably? I mean it's super useful in teams, as well as vs. Marth if Marth is ever fsmashing you for some reason. Personally i don't think Marth should ever fsmash if Luigi is on the ground but people seem to do it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

They haven't figured out how to avoid f-smashing yet.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Marths that spam f-smashing is a constant of life (for n00blets, @ least.)

 

[Wenbobular]

Haha, I don't think Luigi's USmash kills Link before 100 while Up-b almost certainly does....

 

[COEY]

does no one use the full charged u smash as a kill for links grab, jiggs rest?

it's pretty ridiculous, it not only kills well, but it often sends them at strange crazy angles which are just as good as them being sent off the top.

plus how often do you get a successful fully charged smash off these days?

if jiggs is above 130% and misses a rest ive even been known to uptilt her

 

[thegreatkazoo]

does no one use the full charged u smash as a kill for links grab, jiggs rest?

it's pretty ridiculous, it not only kills well, but it often sends them at strange crazy angles which are just as good as them being sent off the top.

plus how often do you get a successful fully charged smash off these days?

if jiggs is above 130% and misses a rest ive even been known to uptilt her

COEY is truly a man's man. Uptilt instead of shoryu? Or do you just do that on the small ceiling stages?

Spoiler

It's okay, your secret's safe with me.

 

[COEY]

utilt kills jiggs surprisingly well im pretty sure you can kill her on fd at like 130-140% with it. up b is my surprise move, and for edgeguarding sheik

up b is abit over rated imo, often it's the wrong option, it's best used when being flashy. upsmash is so much more safer to kill with and grabs are so much more useful when you can't ko, pretty much every luigi match up depends on his grabs.

 

[Winston]

Well yeah, you shouldn't use it when it's not guaranteed (i.e. they are in lag from something). And yeah, there's no reason to use it when it doesn't KO.

It's underused a bit though to:

edgeguard falcon on FD
uthrow -> up b Fox at around 90-100 percent. It will kill him on FD/PS, but a uthrow -> dair won't with good DI.

 

[COEY]

thats true, tho if they di the grab well at that percent i don't think it will hit that often, you'd have to get the wave dash, the jump and the timing of the move all completely perfect. i prefer to follow the di and fair, its sends them futher downwards than the dair, i actually love the fair to bits, its so good that you can short hop it and still hit people on platforms.

 

[Winston]

yeah, I mean I know it only works if they don't DI the throw. if they do then wd fair like you said is your best bet. Reacting to the DI is tough but I think it's doable.

In any situation where you can either fair or dair though dair is seriously far superior. I don't think it's even close. The angle for fair is only slightly better, if better at all, and it's wayyy weaker.

 

[COEY]

i do love dair don't get me wrong

i just rate the hit box of the fair, like i mentioned short hopping it to hit people on platforms, the forward hitbox also makes edge guarding falcon super easy too. if i have the time i will just full jump and fast fall with falcon, so when ever he makes his move and tried to get on the stage/edge he gets a fair to the face, and gets sent lower. if you haven't tried this please feel free to it's soooooo gay, in the very best way