Luigi Wish List (for the next update)

[Blue Mage]

Here's some of the changes I would like to see for Luigi in the new PM update:

1. Give him a new dash attack. Luigi can be punished in the middle of it, even while the opponent is getting hit. He probably has the worst dash attack in the entire game.

2. Fix his D-Tilt as well, it doesn't seem to have any use.

3. Increase his air speed by a little bit. I'm not saying give him Jiggs/Wario level of air speed, but just a little more than he has now.

4. More traction. Luigi gets guard broken for free on platforms/near the edge.

Anyone else like to add/discuss some things for Luigi?

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Here's some of the changes I would like to see for Luigi in the new PM update:

1. Give him a new dash attack. Luigi can be punished in the middle of it, even while the opponent is getting hit. He probably has the worst dash attack in the entire game.

2. Fix his D-Tilt as well, it doesn't seem to have any use.

3. Increase his air speed by a little bit. I'm not saying give him Jiggs/Wario level of air speed, but just a little more than he has now.

4. More traction. Luigi gets guard broken for free on platforms/near the edge.

Anyone else like to add/discuss some things for Luigi?

I can get behind a new dash attack. His current one is like, -200 on hit and you can either shield in the middle of it, or outright jab him out of it with many characters.

His D-tilt does a lot of damage and can cause a weird crumple state, but it's tiny and doesn't net any combo damage if you hit. It's nothing more than a gimmick, and gimmicks are never good.

His air speed could use a boost. It would give him more aerial options, which he needs.

His low traction is really bad, imo. Being able to be guard broken on platforms because you blocked well is really stupid. I'm sure some would argue to just dodge instead of shield on platforms, but being limited in options due to poor character design is not good.

 

[specialkyo]

Luigi is fine. Everything works fine. Minor changes and that's it. The only thing I would say is tweak his dash attack a tiny bit and he would be perfectly top tier. Learn the character and you will do just fine.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Luigi is fine. Everything works fine. Minor changes and that's it. The only thing I would say is tweak his dash attack a tiny bit and he would be perfectly top tier. Learn the character and you will do just fine.

How experienced are you in playing/facing this character?

Something tells me you don't ever play/play against this character.

 

[specialkyo]

I have played this character since the melee days. He has had significant buffs in PM (some of these buffs were to moves that made him low tier in melee).

Not only has his recovery been boosted, he can now control his missfires. This can give you such an edge over your opponent. Crouch cancel missfire counters all day. When you know the match-up well enough you can read when to use it.. so missfires are no longer "random".

His down tilt has actually received a buff so calling for it to be changed is wrong. It works beautifully now.

His down b was buffed so that you can not only recover better, but you can use it on stage to pull opponents into the air for some aerial finishers. You can also use it to increase his mobility greatly when tech chasing, or hunting down those pesky dash dancers. Press the b button a few times while grounded and you will rise just enough to wave land on platforms, or just enough to simply wave land back onto the stage for some trickery.

His up b has been buffed in that it is easier to hit the shoryuken with. So now you can get earlier kills off of the top of the stage, or you can get great reads with and drop your opponent's morale.

Luigi is the king of combo breakers.. with peach being the queen. His nair works great for stopping momentum. This just so happens to also combo into just about any move you could think of using (depending on di, characters, etc. but you get the point).

To top it all off his fire balls were made even more useful.

Notice how most of his problems stemmed from his b moves? His a moves are just about right for the way he plays. Bait your opponent correctly and punish appropriately.

Take time to check out the video I posted in the general discussion thread. It shows that Luigi can use this backwards sliding momentum to go in with any move * yes any move even grabs * and slide back a decent amount of length. This technique is new to me so placing it into my style is going to be a little weird, but I find that it will almost be required for Luigi players in the meta game.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I have played this character since the melee days. He has had significant buffs in PM (some of these buffs were to moves that made him low tier in melee).

Not only has his recovery been boosted, he can now control his missfires. This can give you such an edge over your opponent. Crouch cancel missfire counters all day. When you know the match-up well enough you can read when to use it.. so missfires are no longer "random".

His down tilt has actually received a buff so calling for it to be changed is wrong. It works beautifully now.

His down b was buffed so that you can not only recover better, but you can use it on stage to pull opponents into the air for some aerial finishers. You can also use it to increase his mobility greatly when tech chasing, or hunting down those pesky dash dancers. Press the b button a few times while grounded and you will rise just enough to wave land on platforms, or just enough to simply wave land back onto the stage for some trickery.

His up b has been buffed in that it is easier to hit the shoryuken with. So now you can get earlier kills off of the top of the stage, or you can get great reads with and drop your opponent's morale.

Luigi is the king of combo breakers.. with peach being the queen. His nair works great for stopping momentum. This just so happens to also combo into just about any move you could think of using (depending on di, characters, etc. but you get the point).

To top it all off his fire balls were made even more useful.

Notice how most of his problems stemmed from his b moves? His a moves are just about right for the way he plays. Bait your opponent correctly and punish appropriately.

Take time to check out the video I posted in the general discussion thread. It shows that Luigi can use this backwards sliding momentum to go in with any move * yes any move even grabs * and slide back a decent amount of length. This technique is new to me so placing it into my style is going to be a little weird, but I find that it will almost be required for Luigi players in the meta game.

You're calling out strengths as though there are no holes in Luigi's offense/defense.

Luigi's dash attack is garbage. You can't use it to punish jumps like other dash attacks. A change of this would be a GREAT thing for this character, and may even help his combo potential off of punished jumps.

The fact that an opponent can guard break you just because you're standing on a platform is really dumb. What? You're gonna tell me that Luigi players should avoid all platforms at all times?

And please. . .PLEASE explain to me how D-tilt "works beautifully now". You gave absolutely no explanation to that.

Being able to name his strengths doesn't give you right to deny the holes in his offense.

 

[specialkyo]

You're calling out strengths as though there are no holes in Luigi's offense/defense.

Luigi's dash attack is garbage. You can't use it to punish jumps like other dash attacks. A change of this would be a GREAT thing for this character, and may even help his combo potential off of punished jumps.

The fact that an opponent can guard break you just because you're standing on a platform is really dumb. What? You're gonna tell me that Luigi players should avoid all platforms at all times?

And please. . .PLEASE explain to me how D-tilt "works beautifully now". You gave absolutely no explanation to that.

Being able to name his strengths doesn't give you right to deny the holes in his offense.

Why are you trying to argue this? You have no right to claim his dash attack is garbage when you don't even know when to use it. His dash attack isn't meant to set up into sweet combos or get an *easy* free hit out of. You can use it in many different situations to apply specific pressure or push opponents where you want them to be.

His down tilt has the same treatment. Use it at the right moments. If you want to apply a little shield pressure start off with using a down tilt to poke at the opponent. They never realize how much shield damage that down tilt does. Next thing they know their shield is gone. I can throw all the examples of when to use it at you but you probably won't even learn from it.

Listing off his strengths to deny the "holes in his offense" was not my intention. I wanted to show you how much better he is so you would understand that he has a variety of tools to work with now. Learn to apply them instead of immediately thinking he needs to be altered.

Also his platform game is amazing. He can slip and slide around any stage with platforms with grace. You should be playing king of the hill with the platforms and be constantly winning rather than getting your "guard broken". Use nair around platforms and watch your opponent squirm. Just nair them until you feel like ending it with an up b or a dair/fair. Or keep comboing them.

Please just go back and learn Luigi first. Once you learn the character then you can request changes. But once you learn the character you will find that he is just fine.

 

[Deleted member]

my only wish: every side B misfires.

 

[Nguz95]

The way to use Luigi is to not use his dash attack. His lack of traction is actually essential to him as a character, as it gives him the enormous wavedash which he abuses to achieve sonic-like speeds. Most people approach using the ftilt out of a wavedash. He slides for a while after he exits the Wavedash, extending the range of his already long-reaching f-tilt. Also, now it's really easy to usmash out of a dash, which means that, if you want to, you can approach with a dash like everybody else, but use the usmash in place of the dash attack. As for the air-speed, I think you are actually talking about his horizontal aerial moving speed, which is also essential to him as a character. He is supposed to use his wavedash to put him in place so he can jump vertically to unleash one of his really awesome aerials. Even if his aerial mobility were to be buffed, not many people would use it because of his general floatiness. Even if you are moving faster horizontally, his terminal velocity, which is another important part of overall aerial mobility, is so low that he still wouldn't move through the air fast enough to avoid being exposed by faster characters. Luigi is light and easy to kill, so staying out of the air, where you kind of hang out in a danger-prone state, is really important.

In conclusion, Luigi is a character that relies on his idiosyncrasies to make himself viable. He is an extreme character that does one thing really effectively: wavedash. His reliance on this one move makes him difficult to use, but very dangerous once you get the hang of him. As a final note: most suggestions will likely not be implemented because Melee.

 

[Ch3s]

It's unfortunate that his dash attack still sucks. They probably should fix it so that the hits actually link into the final hit, which needs more knockback and stun so that it can be used to push people off stage for an edgeguard.
Down tilt needs to have less end lag, because it has a good trajectory and stun for comboing but luigi isn't given enough time to do it (though you can tech chase out of it at lower percents).
The other things you mentioned are luigi. If you fix those, you make him a different character. If you want to play a character with more aerial mobility and less traction, play jigglypuff or just about any other character. There are much better things to buff. His upsmash needs to go more vertically for it to be a viable kill move/early percent combo move, his fsmash needs fewer startup frames to make it more viable since right now ftilt is just the better option. Fireballs were buffed but they could go a bit faster or do a bit more damage. There are lots and lots and lots of things to change before you start changing who luigi is.

 

[Meme]

It would be nice if Side B could go through characters when sheilding instead of stopping the trayectory. And a ittybit of an bigger frame window or whatever it is called to "sweetspot" with side B.

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Honestly, I think in the hands of the right player Luigi can already be dangerous. He does need some minor changes to be viable, but nothing major. Basically, a functional dash attack, easier sweetspot for Green Missile in terms of grabbing ledges, and maybe a slightly larger hitbox for Super Jump Punch.

 

[specialkyo]

It would be nice if Side B could go through characters when sheilding instead of stopping the trayectory. And a ittybit of an bigger frame window or whatever it is called to "sweetspot" with side B.

But then a missfire would go right through them and off the stage.

The side b sweet spot is hard to time but once you get it down you can sweet spot from max charge side b's like no other.

I would love to see his side b stick to walls like it did in brawl and allow a wall jump from it (only if it was fully charged and/or if it was struck by a missfire. I only thought of that because of Ike though.. so stealing from him would probably make some people irritated. But some people could only dream of such kinky changes.

 

[meow]

I JUST WANT DASH ATTACK TO NOT BE CANCELLED SO EASILY
DOWN TILT IS PRETTY GOOD IDK WHY YOU GUYS THINK IT SHOULD BE A COMBO
JUST DOWN SMASH OR UP TILT
THROW A ***** OVER WAVEDASH TO THEM AND DOWN TILT THEIR BITCHASS
BAM THAT'S 15 FIFTEEN FIIIIFFTEEEEN PERCENT

 

[SpiderMad]

<RaccoonChuck>: Lol, I just thought of the funniest Luigi buff.
<RaccoonChuck>: Dash attack continues off ledges, and he begins walking
down the slope of the wall

 

[meow]

<RaccoonChuck>: Lol, I just thought of the funniest Luigi buff.
<RaccoonChuck>: Dash attack continues off ledges, and he begins walking
down the slope of the wall

that would make me so happy

 

[BTmoney]

a new dash attack and and increased fast fall speed would be great

 

[Biinii]

Yelling "yippie" when he dsmashes.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I JUST WANT DASH ATTACK TO NOT BE CANCELLED SO EASILY
DOWN TILT IS PRETTY GOOD IDK WHY YOU GUYS THINK IT SHOULD BE A COMBO
JUST DOWN SMASH OR UP TILT
THROW A ***** OVER WAVEDASH TO THEM AND DOWN TILT THEIR *****ASS
BAM THAT'S 15 FIFTEEN FIIIIFFTEEEEN PERCENT

D-tilt is ass. . .raw ass.

 

[SpiderMad]

D-tilt is ***. . .raw ***.

People told me it's good for jab resets at any %

 

[Chibi-Chan]

Yelling "yippie" when he dsmashes.

This!!

Also his physics should remain unchaged, they all contribute to his wavedash which is the main tool of this character. Dtilt also does like.. a lot of damage right?

Instead of running around the slope of the stage he should do it in the air Ala Wil. E Coyote and DK dash attack.

 

[meow]

This!!

Also his physics should remain unchaged, they all contribute to his wavedash which is the main tool of this character. Dtilt also does like.. a lot of damage right?

Instead of running around the slope of the stage he should do it in the air Ala Wil. E Coyote and DK dash attack.

omg so he runs off stage but still floats in the air during dash attack?
that sounds so derpy which is exactly luigi
i love this
would be such a funny edgeguard

 

[tripwire]

I don't get why we are talking about Dash attacks with luigi over his superior wavedash options like F-tilt which can be aimed.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Better dash attack, highter traction, and faster air speed = we're on the way to turning Luigi into Mario.

Yeah his dash attack sucks. Not every character has an amazing dash attack. Luigi's low traction is an integral part to how he plays right now. His slidiness work for him if used properly. Also his down tilt is so fun. It doesn't need to be significantly changed. At least it was better than it was in Melee. Now it's a free 14% stun.

 

[Ninjamo]

I think Luigi is fine the way he is... except for that dash attack. The only time I use it is on accident, and it's about tripping-level annoying. I'm not saying it should like Mario's, since that would make Luigi a god, but maybe make it fewer hits. Like he would only do 2 or 3 flail punches followed by the final hit and reduce its distance to match. Or give it the ability cancel into another move somehow.

I'm not amazing with Luigi , but I'm no slouch either. I just fail to see the practical application of the move as it stands (or flails).

Also, I miss the ludicrous distance the misfire got in Melee.

 

[leelue]

I think keeping sub-par moves that aren't actually without use is good. Dash attack is pure garbage but it
uh
pushes people towards the ledge
and I've seen it break a shield once
so there's that I guess

 

[whitmorethetoadpirate]

Eh, it's kind of like keeping ganon's old utilt. Then again, I loved his old one since it was monstrous in teams. Get a grab, ganon utilt, death.

But this isn't about dorf, so I'll just say that I agree his dash attack should be something different but that's about it. Luigi is all about being slippery and his low traction on the ground is great for that. I actually love him and Squirtle because when you shield and someone hits you with a strong KO move you just get a free reset by sliding all the way across stage.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want a better dash attack. I can't count how many times I've been punished because of me doing that lol

 

[DMG]

Any dash attack changes would probably be minor for the character unless it had some incredibly useful property/knockback angle.

What Luigi needs is better control over his vertical movement. The low horizontal air speed is fine and keeps him unique, but it takes the character too long to get back to the ground. Having a better FF would help him get down from juggles, get back to the ground quicker after say a SH Nair OOS that you can now maybe follow up on, and it wouldn't really impact the feel of the character if he retained the same air speed/fall with no FF added.

 

[trash?]

luigi's problems start and end with "he has bigger trouble getting from neutral to advantage than most characters". there's really no way around that, he can have options for days but he's awful at the more important part where you need to be in a positive position for those options.

fun as hell to combo w/ though

 

[DMG]

Having a better FF would address that a bit. The character is on the verge of having a lot of depth and chances for the player to show off precision. Just polish the bad boy up and give him the championship belt because he's about to box

 

[ph00tbag]

Make dash attack work like a jab combo, where the last hit has to be input separately from the rest of the move, so you can cc from the second to last hit and try to catch your opponent rolling or blocking, but still have the last hit to frame trap them if you think they're going to try to punish.

 

[DMG]

We're going to try and give his Dash Attack a hit confirm? Jesus christ it's over I'm going back to Falcon.

 

[trash?]

falcon's WD is butts though, you can't compete here

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

A better fastfall, more shield damage on his dash attack, and the ability to aim his fireballs diagonally up at around a 25-35 degree angle (while on the ground) is all that Luigi needs.

Edit: I really wish that someone would at least comment on my Anti-Air Fireball idea. *sighs*

 

[Farkle the Oddly Shaped]

I can get behind a new dash attack. His current one is like, -200 on hit and you can either shield in the middle of it, or outright jab him out of it with many characters.

His D-tilt does a lot of damage and can cause a weird crumple state, but it's tiny and doesn't net any combo damage if you hit. It's nothing more than a gimmick, and gimmicks are never good.

His air speed could use a boost. It would give him more aerial options, which he needs.

His low traction is really bad, imo. Being able to be guard broken on platforms because you blocked well is really stupid. I'm sure some would argue to just dodge instead of shield on platforms, but being limited in options due to poor character design is not good.

I'd love if they gave him the dash attack similar to what he had in Brawl, where the final hit gives enough knockback to where you don't get punished quite so easily.

His dtilt is great if you do accidentally do a dash attack, but isn't really as far out in front of his body to be a good reset in different situations.

Just his falling/FF speed

Maybe, but it allows him to get over to an opponent quick enough with a full wavedash/waveland and an ftilt/uptilt follow-up.

Oh yea, and faster fireballs like what they did with Mario would be nice

 

[ph00tbag]

We're going to try and give his Dash Attack a hit confirm? Jesus christ it's over I'm going back to Falcon.

Well, you want Luigi to play like Falcon rather than trying to build upon his existing playstyle, so maybe you should just go back to Falcon.

 

[deadjames]

Personally, I think he's fine the way he is.