Luigi's Recovery?

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

So I've noticed something while playing this game. I mean I've known this for a while, but have you noticed that Luigi's recovery is one of the worst in the game? Yes he can rise with his down b, but only if he has a jump. If an opponent gimps luigi again after his first rising down b, there is no way he's coming back. His side b descends like a rock when he uses it and doesn't auto snap to ledge, so that doesn't help too much. His up b doesn't go very far vetically, so it's hard to grab ledge with that, too if you're low. I guess my question is, how do you recover with luigi if you've been hit after your first tornado rise? Almost every character in this game is able to still make it back easily if you gimp them with a strong move, but why does Luigi get the short end of the stick? (I've hit characters like robin and greninja three times with sweet/sourspot bairs and they are still able to make it back, Luigi would die after the first bair.) Is it possible to mash down b without the jump? And if so, how do you do it, because I can never seem to get a rise this way.

Also, unrelated question: what is your favorite Luigi costume in smash 4?

 

[BSL]

It seems like the rising without momentum is gone. I can get near full height in brawl pretty consistently, and I can't get anything better than a sort of stall on 3DS. Maybe with a controller in my hand, it'll be different, but I don't think so. Jumping is the only way to go, if it even gives him extra height.

I use Bluigi.

 

[Donyoku]

I think honestly, they just nerfed Luigi's recovery harder than a lot of other characters, plus with newcommers having these god like recoveries except Mac it just looks worse right now. I really don't think there is more to find out recovery wise but I hope I'm wrong. Because unlike Mac,, Luigi's aerial and ground game combined are not as Jesus as Mac is on the ground to make up for his bad recovery.

The only hope at this point is that the Wii U version will be slightly different in a positive way or, once we get a gcc controller we will be able to discover new methods of recovery options.

 

[hey_there]

Luigi's recovery is really bad this game. Either you recover high, or really, really low. Like, in the bubble at the bottom low. His cyclone will take him really really high after a jump, so it's possible to recover from near the bottom blast zone as long as you have that jump. Recovering high has been a decent option depending on the match up because of his high priority aerials keeping him a bit safer as he descends back to the stage. Honestly, his recovery is so bad now that I don't go off the stage to edge guard much anymore, simply because I've had enough of missing an aerial and simply being unable to make it back to the stage.

I play Waluigi colours cause of WAA!

 

[Yonder]

Sure it's bad in this game, but I think it's still usable. I do go offstage still to land dair spikes. Like I've mentioned before, don't bother with cyclone if you don't have any forward momentum going. If you do have forward momentum, you can gain 2/3rds of Brawl cyclone's height fairly easy.

My favorite color is probably anime Luigi [Blue/yellow]

 

[Luigisama]

I must have posted about this so much that I should get an award for it.

How many luigis could actually rise without a jump in brawl? If I remember correctly there was only 7, but I could be wrong. I remember people still asking in 2013 "how do I rise with luigi without a jump?" questions because it was so hard to do. Wait for the wii u console not because Luigi will be changed, but the controller scheme will be changed which will allow luigi players to rise without a jump. I'm happy that I can at least drop ledge and keep my spot near the ledge with cyclone without a jump. It is like I go nowhere, but I just hover there lol. (I was cycloning as ledge to see if I could cyclone gimp, but I couldn't)

And I have no favorite color. I play by port color.

 

[Yonder]

Course, custom moves turn Luigi's recovery into a god...I'm sure we all know this by now though.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Course, custom moves turn Luigi's recovery into a god...I'm sure we all know this by now though.

It does, but his onstage down b suffers from it. I wish there was a way to combine his default onstage down b with the custom 2 down b.

And I dont think custom moves will be allowed in tournaments.

 

[Donyoku]

It does, but his onstage down b suffers from it. I wish there was a way to combine his default onstage down b with the custom 2 down b.

And I dont think custom moves will be allowed in tournaments.

Custom moves have not be decided on as of yet. Probably wont have a decision until a few months after Wii U release.
And I agree with @ Luigisama very few of the Luigi mains could even do the jumpless down b recovery in Brawl (Famous Mr. ConCon) it was crazy hard. But at this point I have been testing things moderately since I play other games on my 3DS and don't want to break it by attempting AT's.

 

[Luigisama]

lol just don't do the new ats that they have recently found out. I just know that my friend was saying that you can break the control of the 3DS off by trying to do them.

@ ThegreatVaporeon1 Customs free moves are being allowed in tourney. They are adding "taste" to the game. They are the *cough soulcalibursword choices* Namco's other little addition to SSB. Lol when I first saw the mario custom cape.

I had to missile against the gust that it gave. Of course I'm the bad player for not knowing that it did that.

 

[zhao_guang]

I must have posted about this so much that I should get an award for it.

How many luigis could actually rise without a jump in brawl? If I remember correctly there was only 7, but I could be wrong. I remember people still asking in 2013 "how do I rise with luigi without a jump?" questions because it was so hard to do. Wait for the wii u console not because Luigi will be changed, but the controller scheme will be changed which will allow luigi players to rise without a jump. I'm happy that I can at least drop ledge and keep my spot near the ledge with cyclone without a jump. It is like I go nowhere, but I just hover there lol. (I was cycloning as ledge to see if I could cyclone gimp, but I couldn't)

And I have no favorite color. I play by port color.

Was i one of them, Pa????

I agree though, let's wait until we get our hands on a GCC to make judgements. I still think it could be more difficult than Brawl (it's definitely the easiest in the series, as well as the most effective), but I would't be surprised if some life could come from it. I've noticed when the match ends and it goes into slow motion, if you mash down B you'll see him rise high. So I guess only those with Matrix like qualities will be able to main Luigi!!!

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

I mentioned his recovery in the Luigi guide, it's much harder to work with. I tested on both 3DS and Wii (Smash 4 and Wii). It's harder to recover with Luigi in this game but I can't wait to change up my guide for Wii U version since it's gonna be more relevant in competitive play anyways.

 

[Luigisama]

Was i one of them, Pa????

I agree though, let's wait until we get our hands on a GCC to make judgements. I still think it could be more difficult than Brawl (it's definitely the easiest in the series, as well as the most effective), but I would't be surprised if some life could come from it. I've noticed when the match ends and it goes into slow motion, if you mash down B you'll see him rise high. So I guess only those with Matrix like qualities will be able to main Luigi!!!

yes you are. The luigis that could rise without jump was Boss, you, Biglou, Me, Mr.concon, Hippiedude, and Yoshq.

 

[zhao_guang]

yes you are. The luigis that could rise without jump was Boss, you, Biglou, Me, Mr.concon, Hippiedude, and Yoshq.

Take notes gentlemen,

THESE ARE THE FOREFATHERS OF LUIGI

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I mentioned his recovery in the Luigi guide, it's much harder to work with. I tested on both 3DS and Wii (Smash 4 and Wii). It's harder to recover with Luigi in this game but I can't wait to change up my guide for Wii U version since it's gonna be more relevant in competitive play anyways.

Do you have the link to your luigi guide? I'd love to see it. Thank you.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I must have posted about this so much that I should get an award for it.

How many luigis could actually rise without a jump in brawl? If I remember correctly there was only 7, but I could be wrong. I remember people still asking in 2013 "how do I rise with luigi without a jump?" questions because it was so hard to do. Wait for the wii u console not because Luigi will be changed, but the controller scheme will be changed which will allow luigi players to rise without a jump. I'm happy that I can at least drop ledge and keep my spot near the ledge with cyclone without a jump. It is like I go nowhere, but I just hover there lol. (I was cycloning as ledge to see if I could cyclone gimp, but I couldn't)

And I have no favorite color. I play by port color.

Eh, not really. Rising without a jump in brawl wasn't really difficult, you just had to be decent at mashing. In fact it's very akin to his Project M recovery. I just wish they incorporated this into smash 4 because the way he recovered in brawl was a good mixup for the opponent. Now it's very predictable that after he jumps, he will rise . But like others have said, we should wait until we get the custom GCC's for the 3ds to accurately determine how high he can rise. And yes, I hope the wii u console version will make the rise easier as well with its controls.

 

[BSL]

yes you are. The luigis that could rise without jump was Boss, you, Biglou, Me, Mr.concon, Hippiedude, and Yoshq.

I could do it lol

 

[Donyoku]

Take notes gentlemen,

THESE ARE THE FOREFATHERS OF LUIGI

*Pays homage* I used to watch you guys videos all the time! And be jealous that I could not perform such feats.

 

[Luigisama]

I could do it lol

I did say I could be wrong. That makes 8

 

[DJ Delta]

I actually can do rising cyclone without a jump pretty consistently too. However, I did notice that you can get a little horizontal distance with cyclone in Smash 3DS since he has a bit more mobility airborne than he had in brawl, though it's not much.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

I actually can do rising cyclone without a jump pretty consistently too. However, I did notice that you can get a little horizontal distance with cyclone in Smash 3DS since he has a bit more mobility airborne than he had in brawl, though it's not much.

Yeah I don't know why people are saying that down b without a jump is difficult in Brawl. I can do it pretty easily, too.
I just wish there was more vertical mobility too. I really think Luigi's actually a very solid character in this game, but his biggest flaw is his recovery, especially with everyone else's recovery being so good.

 

[GreenFlame]

I just wish there was more vertical mobility too. I really think Luigi's actually a very solid character in this game, but his biggest flaw is his recovery, especially with everyone else's recovery being so good.

You're right. Luigi can't really compete with the other recoveries in this game. Luigi can do edgeguards well, but his edgeguarding ability is hindered by his poor and predictable recovery.

 

[BSL]

I actually can do rising cyclone without a jump pretty consistently too. However, I did notice that you can get a little horizontal distance with cyclone in Smash 3DS since he has a bit more mobility airborne than he had in brawl, though it's not much.

Yeah I don't know why people are saying that down b without a jump is difficult in Brawl. I can do it pretty easily, too.
I just wish there was more vertical mobility too. I really think Luigi's actually a very solid character in this game, but his biggest flaw is his recovery, especially with everyone else's recovery being so good.

It's not just being able to rise with it, it's getting the full height without a jump.

 

[L9999]

You're right. Luigi can't really compete with the other recoveries in this game. Luigi can do edgeguards well, but his edgeguarding ability is hindered by his poor and predictable recovery.

Dr Mario, Ganon, Diddy, and Little Mac have garbage tier recoveries too.

 

[$Lil' Gerald Is In Dat Style$]

For those who don't know what I said about Luigi's recovery, here's my guide.

http://smashboards.com/threads/luigis-smash-4-guide-will-keep-updating.372225/

 

[Yonder]

I actually died at 10% to a Jigglypuff in Glory mode after being thrown off the stage trying to recover today...:S.

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

So i was in training mode and I made the speed 1/4. And yes, it is possible to rise with down b without a jump (it's about the height of his Brawl/PM down b). It's hard to in normal time, but once those gc controllers come, we should be able to do it. Luigi's recovery isn't too bad guys, we just need to practice our mashing skills.

 

[GreenFlame]

Dr Mario, Ganon, Diddy, and Little Mac have garbage tier recoveries too.

Duck Hunt, Olimar, Lucario, Sheik, Kirby, Jigglypuff, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man and Greninja all have more recovery potential than Luigi vertically, whether it be with their up specials or their jumps. Greninja, Lucario, Rosalina, Kirby and Jigglypuff all also have more horizantal recovery potential.

Why does Luigi need such an awkward, gimpable recovery compared to a lot of other characters in the game?

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Duck Hunt, Olimar, Lucario, Sheik, Kirby, Jigglypuff, Rosalina, Sonic, Mega Man and Greninja all have more recovery potential than Luigi vertically, whether it be with their up specials or their jumps. Greninja, Lucario, Rosalina, Kirby and Jigglypuff all also have more horizantal recovery potential.

Why does Luigi need such an awkward, gimpable recovery compared to a lot of other characters in the game?

Yeah, this is true. But since it is possible to rise with down b without a jump, luigi can mix up his recovery to be less gimpable. He's one of the few chars in this game that needs to outplay the opponent in order to actually get back on...unlike lucario rosalina, etc.

Although, it's definitely not the worst recovery in the game. I still think lil mac's recovery holds that title.

 

[chic_]

yes you are. The luigis that could rise without jump was Boss, you, Biglou, Me, Mr.concon, Hippiedude, and Yoshq.

i could do this too! geez you stop playing for a couple of years and everyone forgets about you . i'll be sure to go hard in tourney play very soon

anyway back on topic, i can understand why luigis recovery was nerved so much… it was really overpowered in brawl… the green missile auto ledge grab thing being removed is really disappointing, but i'm looking forwarded to learning new recovery tricks in smash 4

 

[zhao_guang]

i could do this too! geez you stop playing for a couple of years and everyone forgets about you . i'll be sure to go hard in tourney play very soon

anyway back on topic, i can understand why luigis recovery was nerved so much… it was really overpowered in brawl… the green missile auto ledge grab thing being removed is really disappointing, but i'm looking forwarded to learning new recovery tricks in smash 4

this made my day

welcome back chic

 

[Luigisama]

i could do this too! geez you stop playing for a couple of years and everyone forgets about you . i'll be sure to go hard in tourney play very soon

anyway back on topic, i can understand why luigis recovery was nerved so much… it was really overpowered in brawl… the green missile auto ledge grab thing being removed is really disappointing, but i'm looking forwarded to learning new recovery tricks in smash 4

I know who you are. The thing is it is hard to tell if someone used jump to rise with cyclone. Besides I have only seen your match against swanka the fox.

 

[MM720]

Luigi's recovery is indeed underpowered. While it's natural (at least for me) to go Missile>Cyclone>Jump>SJP (only if all steps are necessary. Usually I just go Missile>SJP/Jump), it's pretty easy to be edgeguarded by a player who knows what he's doing (either by just outright blocking your Missile with their body provided they have a very good recovery or by gimping your Missile or Jump). His only major pro is that while it sucks, his recovery is VARIED and flexible. Some times they expect me to charge a long Missile while I just spam it in hope for a misfire while other times they expect me to just go straight Missile>SJP (which I sometimes do but only if necessary or my opponent has no way to edgeguard).

But truth be told I don't find his recovery to be one of his weakest points. Losses by bad recovery/gimps are in the minority for me.


Also Unrelated Question answer: I use Fire Luigi (and normal Luigi in Melee)

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

You guys mention the best Brawl Luigi players, what about samboner? Wasn't he also one of the best?

#neverforget

 

[LuigiKing]

Some old names ITT.

Sup guys

 

[zhao_guang]

Some old names ITT.

Sup guys

*bows to the King*

we are not worthy

 

[Yonder]

Yeah, this is true. But since it is possible to rise with down b without a jump, luigi can mix up his recovery to be less gimpable. He's one of the few chars in this game that needs to outplay the opponent in order to actually get back on...unlike lucario rosalina, etc.

Although, it's definitely not the worst recovery in the game. I still think lil mac's recovery holds that title.

Not to mention Doc's is still really bad...the distance on tornado obtained is laughable.

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi's recovery is kinda... bad. I expected nerfs with the Luigi Cyclone since the air distance in Brawl was rather big. What I didn't expect was them nerfing the distance of the Super Jump Punch, which hurts his mediocre recovery even more. It's only bad in the sense in that it's very predictable and characters with good meteor smashes will punish him. After every double jump, I try to use the Luigi Cyclone to gain height (even in 64 and Brawl), so it doesn't bother me that I have to do it here. It just makes me wonder if it will be easier to gain height on the Wii U version...
While Luigi does have a mediocre recovery, it isn't the source of some of my losses with him (though I have been gimped a few times). The main cause for some of my losses are to characters who can outrange him or make his approaching more difficult, such as characters like Link and Toon Link who have amazing projectiles or Rosalina and her Luma's attacks.

As for the unrelated question, I use Luigi's default green palette. I use the default palette on almost every character.

 

[LuigiKing]

How ya been zhao? I got back into the scene over summer and have been doing pretty well in PM.

Sm4sh (and luigi in it) feels so slow and ****ty though Will def stick to melee/PM

 

[King_Peachee]

With such a miserable recovery, the only thing I've been able to think of is to try and mix up the recoveries as much as possible. Sinking really low and rising up with a jump + cyclone usually catches people off guard...but it only works once or twice before they catch on.

Making sure you still have that second jump is so important. It seems like everyone I play purposely look to throw me off the stage.