Social Mario Hotel - Super Social 4

[HeroMystic]

Well unless you're a masochist who's dedicated to Mario like most of us here.

I'm a Rosalina main.

Yet, I play Mario the most.

 

[BSP]

So, another tourney today. I tried to stick with the chewy monster for the most part, but I did go Mario against Mega Man and against Rosalina. Got a FLUDD KOs on both of them, so I was happy.

People don't believe me when I try to tell them that Mario is bad. I keep trying to tell them, "yes, the combos look pretty and all, but they don't do that much damage and Mario can't KO." No one believes me >.>

Despite this, I may give him and Doc some more consideration. I like Pac Man and all, but not being able to grab consistently is infuriating, and I feel bad for running away for 70% of the match.

Have any of you been dabbling into Doc? I hate to give up my water gun, but Doc hits like a truck and can actually KO at decent % and doesn't mind trading as much.

 

[HeroMystic]

Doc's still awkward for me to play. His lack in speed doesn't allow me to weave in and out opponent's range and his D-air is just plain different from Mario's. Still, he does seem to be more "safe" than Mario due to the Doc Tornado and a stronger N-air and B-air.

While he does have stronger KO options, I actually don't believe it's that much better than Mario's outside of F-Smash, which shares the same problem as ours, except it has less range.

Doc seems to be stronger against the lesser tiered characters, but Mario is better against the top tiers.

 

[BSP]

Yeah, I wouldn't really know what to do as Doc for shield pressure outside of pills.

Another thing: Are there any big names out there that use Mario? I don't think I've seen any japanese gameplay of him, and I know about Nyani and Jumpman, but I wouldn't call them big names yet. Boss is playing Luigi from what I've seen.

 

[T25XL]

Yeah, I wouldn't really know what to do as Doc for shield pressure outside of pills.

Another thing: Are there any big names out there that use Mario? I don't think I've seen any japanese gameplay of him, and I know about Nyani and Jumpman, but I wouldn't call them big names yet. Boss is playing Luigi from what I've seen.

None so far, at least none that have fully mastered mario's potential. There are still general flaws in the offline mario's gameplay, that I've seen. But that's just my opinion.

 

[BSP]

There's also general flaws in people's ability to edgeguard Mario. Too many times I have seen people just stand on the ledge while Mario is recovering. Go hit him please.

 

[T25XL]

There's also general flaws in people's ability to edgeguard Mario. Too many times I have seen people just stand on the ledge while Mario is recovering. Go hit him please.

lol yes

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, I wouldn't really know what to do as Doc for shield pressure outside of pills.

Another thing: Are there any big names out there that use Mario? I don't think I've seen any japanese gameplay of him, and I know about Nyani and Jumpman, but I wouldn't call them big names yet. Boss is playing Luigi from what I've seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYx917XkqR0

This is legitimately the best Japanese Mario gameplay I've seen, and it didn't exactly make me happy for obvious reasons.

 

[BSP]

I die a little on the inside every time I see a missed FLUDD KO opportunity.

I did so multiple times today. Lucina whiffing an up B in my face and all I could do was Fsmash...sigh.

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-project.380574/page-2#post-18094857

Go try to convince people that Mario's frames need to be tightened up if he's going to have to work so hard in this game.

 

[Iko-Seiko]

Won a local with (some) Mario today >.>;

I went in intending to use the venue to practice my secondaries, along with Chibo, but we wound up going with our mains for the last game of Grands. So Mario /technically/ won me the tournament.

Also thanks for even mentioning me in the same thought as Jumpman as a mario main ^^;

-Nyani

 

[HeroMystic]

Everyone sleeping on KirinBlaze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBXLYm4xCOA

He played Mario in Brawl, and it shows. He's the most solid Mario I've seen thus far.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Everyone sleeping on KirinBlaze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBXLYm4xCOA

He played Mario in Brawl, and it shows. He's the most solid Mario I've seen thus far.

Honestly, this comes more as a relief than a surprise. He's always been a very smart and solid player.

Y'know, what I got out of this is if Mario's negative state wasn't so terrible, we'd probably be okay. If Mario is ever able to take advantage of rage, it helps him a lot, giving Mario KO options where he used to basically not have any, and making his low percent combos more consistent. Kirin got at least one pretty clutch KO with B-air because of rage. Rage is definitely a good mechanic in this game and makes the first stock for disadvantaged characters generally speaking more fair. It's just unfortunate that we don't have good options against edgeguarding and juggles.

Yeah, Gust Cape is the savior.

 

[BSP]

Everyone sleeping on KirinBlaze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBXLYm4xCOA

He played Mario in Brawl, and it shows. He's the most solid Mario I've seen thus far.

I'm better with FLUDD though

Yeah Kirin is solid. Maybe going hard for combos isn't the best idea with Mario.

I'm going to try and make it work though.

 

[HeroMystic]

Certainly, push Mario as far as he can go. Just keep in mind combos are supplementary to a solid neutral game. If you have that down, then everything else should flow afterwards.

 

[Iko-Seiko]

I almost got the chance to do friendlies with kirin at KTAR but i missed out :<

What i like about him most is that he just never stops moving and throwing out hitboxes with nair and other safe things. Ive been trying to incorporate similar motion into my game too.

 

[Fire!]

Nair is so good. It covers a lot of options when your opponent is trying to recover on the ledge and isn't too bad on catching rolls either.

 

[Inferno3044]

Hey guys. Funny to see some of the same people still here after a few years. Mario is so much more fun in this game. He plays much smoother and it's like he's able to do what he was meant to do in brawl. Moves chain more, mix ups are real, and he can really get in your face and pressure with nice cross ups. He got some buffs too (can't edgehog, slightly better kill power, more ways to knock up, i think slightly better range?) Cape is still the most satisfying way to kill someone.

Anyways, I'm kinda curious who's really using him and how y'all are doing in tourney. I went to Collision, a large NJ/NY local, and got 13th out of 45. I lost to Nairo in winners and Will in losers. I can't really complain losing to players of that caliber. Honestly won more in my first tourney for this (4) than I ever did in a Brawl tourney lol.

And shoutout to Nyani. I've seen you play at a few tourneys watching Clash's stream and you've done pretty well. Gained my respect on the handling you gave PB&J at Youmacon. Keep doing what you do.

 

[BoTastic!]

I'm gonna take an educated guess and say that Ally is on his way to becoming the best Mario if he keeps using him. I can't wait to see it in action at Apex.

I've won 3 local tournaments in Chicago with Mario so far and recently got 2nd at a recent tournament only losing to M2K.

I'm waiting for the set to be uploaded, but me and my partner also took 3 games in a row from M2k and Inui in doubles winners finals. They ended up wining the tournament, lol. But I have a lot of confidence in my Mario in this game as of recent. I think he's a very solid character. Just not the best. And I'm ok with that.

 

[Iko-Seiko]

And shoutout to Nyani. I've seen you play at a few tourneys watching Clash's stream and you've done pretty well. Gained my respect on the handling you gave PB&J at Youmacon. Keep doing what you do.

Thanks a ton~ I'm really trying to maximize Mario in this game, he really does feel a lot better! I was at collision too, but i only had like 3 hours of sleep and felt terrible, so i wound up dropping out super fast >.>; it was really disappointing. But before that i was super close to making top 32 at ktar, i only missed it because i got suuuuuuuuuper robbed by a stage and sonic's general BS existence.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Yeah, I wouldn't really know what to do as Doc for shield pressure outside of pills.

This isn't really the Doc boards BUT....

Doc's shorthop is a lot smaller than Mario's, meaning SH FF Bair can actually poke shields more efficiently (and yes it still autocancels)

He can't crossup Dair though, but it's basically Pills and Bairs that are properly spaced.

 

[BSP]

This isn't really the Doc boards BUT....

Doc's shorthop is a lot smaller than Mario's, meaning SH FF Bair can actually poke shields more efficiently (and yes it still autocancels)

He can't crossup Dair though, but it's basically Pills and Bairs that are properly spaced.

Any posts that gives info or corrects something is fine in my book. Thanks.

Hey guys. Funny to see some of the same people still here after a few years. Mario is so much more fun in this game. He plays much smoother and it's like he's able to do what he was meant to do in brawl. Moves chain more, mix ups are real, and he can really get in your face and pressure with nice cross ups. He got some buffs too (can't edgehog, slightly better kill power, more ways to knock up, i think slightly better range?) Cape is still the most satisfying way to kill someone.

Anyways, I'm kinda curious who's really using him and how y'all are doing in tourney. I went to Collision, a large NJ/NY local, and got 13th out of 45. I lost to Nairo in winners and Will in losers. I can't really complain losing to players of that caliber. Honestly won more in my first tourney for this (4) than I ever did in a Brawl tourney lol.

And shoutout to Nyani. I've seen you play at a few tourneys watching Clash's stream and you've done pretty well. Gained my respect on the handling you gave PB&J at Youmacon. Keep doing what you do.

Did any of your matches get recorded?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Any posts that gives info or corrects something is fine in my book. Thanks.

In lieu of this, I'll just add that RAR is probably really good for Doc in pressuring shields and scaring the hell out of people because his Back Air is probably one of the best in the game.

While I do advise a defensive playstyle with Dr. Mario, once he lets you in you should definitely be as offensive as possible (by way of more % on his moves they have more knockback than Mario's so use that), D-Throw is a really good throw with Doc now that vectoring is gone and it leads into easy mixups after a fastfall Uair.

This is vastly different from Mario who, IMO, is a lot about using his good mobility (seriously I think overall Mario has the most well-rounded mobility, great ground speed AND good air speed?) to go in and out rather than do a lot of combos.

It's why the Dr. Mario vs. Mario threads are getting less activity. They share animations, that is legit the only comparison I can make. You have to play them so different I'm wondering if Doc should even be placed in the clones section of the roster at this point. Either way I would definitely advise picking him up and trying to figure him out (the toughest part against people that outcamp you is getting in but once you're in you can do stuff)

EDIT : For the hell of it, I'll talk about why rage helps both. For Mario, sweet jesus does it juice up his aerials. Mario at high %s is SCARY. His mediocre Bair suddenly becomes scary and then you watch how he moves in the air and you're like "I need to kill him NOW." With Doc, rage is scarier IMO. Doc's OoS option of A KILL MOVE (Up+B OoS with Doc + Rage is basically a guaranteed kill on anyone at a high %, no questions asked). This mechanic benefits literally everyone but I like to think that characters with strong air mobility and decent aerials get the most out of it, along with good OoS option chars and the heavies.

 

[MP8]

Hey Marios. Hopefully I can make my official return this month when I get the console/game. Can't wait to represent the red man again.

 

[HeroMystic]

http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-match-up-analysis-week-1-mario.380230/

Throwing this out here considering this hasn't been posted yet.

 

[Hardgainer08]

Wow. Nice to see a lot of familiar faces. I can't believe some of you are already doing tourneys and what have you.

I'm still unlocking stages and stuff <_<

Still, looking forward to playing a few games with you guys. If anyone is interested hit me up.

NNID-H.G-0814

 

[HeroMystic]

Looks like Ally did some online tournaments with Mario.

http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-178#post-18112268

His Mario is extremely solid, and it falls in line with my synopsis on the Metagame thread.

 

[Coolwhip]

Ally playing with Mario? Well that's something I don't hear everyday.

 

[HeroMystic]

Ally playing with Mario? Well that's something I don't hear everyday.

According to NAKAT, Ally believes Mario is Top 7 in this game. ZeRo believes he's a Top Tier character.

 

[NAKAT]

Mario is good my brothers.

 

[Coolwhip]

I wish Mario still had some of his advance cape techniques like cape dashing, cape glide and cape teleport (the hardest tech to pull off)

Have anyone tried cape boost yet? (a.k.a. cape r@pe)

 

[HeroMystic]

Basically every Cape tech that existed in Brawl is gone. Cape Stalling kind of exists but it's severely nerfed.

 

[IsmaR]

Gust Cape exists in their place.

Not that I even think it's needed.

 

[Inferno3044]

I gotta agree with NAKAT. I originally thought Mario was gonna be an upper mid tier character due to him having the same weaknesses he had in brawl. I play him a bit more and I keep thinking how much better Mario is. I got 13th at a tourney that my only "training" was against Pierce's little mac for 2 or 3 days compared to people learning the game since the DS version came out. I haven't really gone to a tourney since 2011 so if I can do pretty well at a large local losing to nationally recognizable players, I think Mario has a decent shot in this game. He's definitely not top tier/top 7 lol.

NAKAT, I'll probably be back in town in a few weeks and I'll probably drop by a few locals while I'm around. Talk to me about a Mario ditto when you see me. I might MM you. Same offer goes to Nyani.

 

[HeroMystic]

I'll be attempting to get into the Smash 4 tourney scene in Texas, but that likely won't happen until January.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I gotta agree with NAKAT. I originally thought Mario was gonna be an upper mid tier character due to him having the same weaknesses he had in brawl. I play him a bit more and I keep thinking how much better Mario is. I got 13th at a tourney that my only "training" was against Pierce's little mac for 2 or 3 days compared to people learning the game since the DS version came out. I haven't really gone to a tourney since 2011 so if I can do pretty well at a large local losing to nationally recognizable players, I think Mario has a decent shot in this game. He's definitely not top tier/top 7 lol.

NAKAT, I'll probably be back in town in a few weeks and I'll probably drop by a few locals while I'm around. Talk to me about a Mario ditto when you see me. I might MM you. Same offer goes to Nyani.

Your statement is ridiculously contradictory and confusing.

The thing you have to realize is that the majority of characters in Smash 4 got straight nerfed, so the biggest buff to Mario is less about how he changed, but more about the rest of the game. Smash 4 Mario is basically a straight downgrade from Brawl Mario. We do less damage, our combos aren't super reliable still and percent dependent (we even lost proper Jab cancel combos), we're actually more easily juggled and edgeguarded, and we still generally don't have great KO moves. Rage helps Mario a lot, except good luck trying to actually survive long enough.

Pierce also believes Mario is bad last time I talked to him about this game. The only thing we do know for now is that "bad" characters in this game probably can win tournaments given the top tier is relatively weak. I mean...look at Ganondorf. He's not amazing, but he's getting results.

 

[BrimeZ]

Looking for a high level Mario to practice against. I have always down great against mario is past games and up untill the recent patch where i actually started losing to Mario's lol. As of right now imo in Smash, Mario poses one of the biggest threats if not the biggest threat to Link in the current metagame and i would like to learn as much of the match up as possible. Mainly getting out of the grab up tilt combos.

Tag on the Wii U: TheBrimeZ

 

[HeroMystic]

I'm (not) amused that there is so much back and forth between whether Mario is good or not. Top players believe he's top tier/high tier material, Mario mains from Brawl/Melee believe he's bad, researchers find his frame data is good, and so on...

I personally don't care about it. I'd play Mario even if he was bottom tier (just not in tournaments, I got tired of that in Brawl). However, the fact that there seems to be a heavy split on Mario's viability annoys me to no end.

I would much prefer if we all sat down and discuss what Mario can do in this game, and improve it, like what we have done in the past.

@ BrimeZ I have to go to work in 15 minutes so I can't. I'll add you when I get back and we'll see from there.

 

[MP8]

Either way, the patience has paid off. Representing and advocating Brawl Mario (actually since 64) for so long has borne forth its fruits in having a clean and justified place as a true Mario main. Mario forever.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm (not) amused that there is so much back and forth between whether Mario is good or not. Top players believe he's top tier/high tier material, Mario mains from Brawl/Melee believe he's bad, researchers find his frame data is good, and so on...

I personally don't care about it. I'd play Mario even if he was bottom tier (just not in tournaments, I got tired of that in Brawl). However, the fact that there seems to be a heavy split on Mario's viability annoys me to no end.

I would much prefer if we all sat down and discuss what Mario can do in this game, and improve it, like what we have done in the past.

@ BrimeZ I have to go to work in 15 minutes so I can't. I'll add you when I get back and we'll see from there.

This, this, so much this.

If you try and fail to do something with Mario that maybe
worked out in a past game, you shouldn't just write him off as bad in general.

Mario's got good movement all-around and most of moves,
though low on damage, won't really be leaving you open.
He can generally stay out of harm's way if you don't get reckless.

Not sure if it's wise to bring him up, but if you're looking
to be aggressive with Mario you may want to try Doc.
As TTTTTsd pointed out, Doc is better at maintaining offensive
momentum.

 

[Inferno3044]

Your statement is ridiculously contradictory and confusing.

The thing you have to realize is that the majority of characters in Smash 4 got straight nerfed, so the biggest buff to Mario is less about how he changed, but more about the rest of the game. Smash 4 Mario is basically a straight downgrade from Brawl Mario. We do less damage, our combos aren't super reliable still and percent dependent (we even lost proper Jab cancel combos), we're actually more easily juggled and edgeguarded, and we still generally don't have great KO moves. Rage helps Mario a lot, except good luck trying to actually survive long enough.

Pierce also believes Mario is bad last time I talked to him about this game. The only thing we do know for now is that "bad" characters in this game probably can win tournaments given the top tier is relatively weak. I mean...look at Ganondorf. He's not amazing, but he's getting results.

We get to debate again!!! But let me try to be clearer on what I mean. I realized I posted a lot of jumbled thoughts so now I'm going to outline it to make it clear.

To start off, I completely disagree with your statement that Mario is downgraded. Whether it's the mechanics of the games or the buffs Mario got, I believe Mario is stronger overall. From the moment I played Mario, I felt that he was much smoother and his moves connect better in this game. I really feel like I can get the quick hits, strings, and pressure that I want to create instead of getting interrupted like I did in Brawl. So while his hits may do less, you can connect more resulting in more damage. He also more better options to knock people up (utilt, dash attack, dtilt, dair). I don't see how he gets edge guarded harder. The fact that you can't hog the ledge instantly makes it easier for him to recover. Rage starts acting around 100%. Don't tell me you can't get to that percentage because if you can't, I will stop debating with you right now.

With that said, obviously Mario still has weaknesses. His range is still on the low side, his recovery is still mediocre at best, his kill power isn't that good, and he can get juggled. Mario had these same weaknesses in Brawl. However, most of these weaknesses I feel like are less severe. He has a slight range increase (not big though. range is still poor). I've noticed this with jab and utilt mainly. I already talked about recovering so I don't need to repeat. While still meh in the killing department, his kill power did increase. Back hit of Dsmash hits just as hard as front hit and his other moves I believe kill at lower percents (don't have numbers, but going off what I've experienced). Bthrow kills again. Rage also plays a factor. As for being juggled, it seems about the same except you can't airdodge into the ground.

As for Mario's spot on the tier list, I can't give you an exact place because I don't know the cast. The reason I don't see him as top tier is because I don't see him as a character that really dominates the game. Right now top tiers include Diddy Kong, Shiek, Rosalina, Lucario, and Ness to name a few. Mario is not as dominant as those characters. The fact that I can name 10 characters that I believe are better than Mario makes him not top 7. I'll name them if requested.

Hope this clears some things up.