Mario>Luigi?

[UWOcho]

I looked through some of the tier list post but it is too difficult to find (if it's even in there):

why is mario better than luigi? as far as i can tell, they are the same aside from dash attacks and specials, and luigi's dairs/uairs can end in an over-the-top kill while mario's can't..

Also what makes yoshi so good as to rate him above dk, luigi, samus, link? (well i can see link..)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Luigi has a really bad approach and lamer fireballs. His combos kill quicker, but he has trouble landing the moves that set them up.

Mario has great moves, combos, the fireballs that work properly and go down in the tent.. headbutt, crazy shdair-uair shield breaking stuff, list goes on.

Luigi has advantages though, his crazy traction lets him slide away from shield pressure (zomg wavedashin) and he's semi hard to combo and you can DI pretty good since he's floaty, and his recovery is pretty **** good.

Luigi's shorthop is too high, if it was lower to the ground it might make him a lot better, drill-uair-upb works great with luigi vs light characters if the uair sends them up to connect with the up b, but its hard to get a proper drill-uair with luigi as compared to mario.

They're both great characters, I can't knock either of them. But I agree that mario is better.

 

[asianaussie]

That tier list is way outdated. You also have to remember something: tiers only express a character's base potential. They don't take matchups or mindgames into consideration. Don't believe that SSB64 is really governed by that list.

Both Mario and Luigi are good, but I believe Luigi is a touch better, if only because he has an easier time finishing opponents. But that's my personal style of play. Most people seem to prefer Mario, as he has much better approach options and baits much better with his fireballs. He is also faster in the air. To use Luigi well, you have to implement some baiting or good mindgames to help your approach, or Luigi does have some problems.

Differences: Aerial speed, slidiness (<_<), B set, dash attack, jump and short hop height, character height

A casual player will see his apparently awesome Up-B and Down-B, and come to the conclusion that Luigi is better. However, Luigi has trouble getting in there and initiating, because his short hop goes too high to hit the smaller chars with a D-Air>U-Air combo. His floatiness does let him get longer combos and helps him escape some of the poorer combos. I say they're both pretty good, and your style of play should be what decides which is better.

I probably missed some stuff there, but w/e, I like Luigi better myself. Don't let tiers tell you who to pick.

As for why Yoshi is better than those four...you haven't seen a good Yoshi video, have you? Isai doesn't use him, huh? Well, Yoshi has a mad initiator in U-Tilt, an exceptionally hard-to-stop recovery, a useful tool in his DJC (very different to Ness's), and a good set of aerials, plus a nice edgeguard game.

 

[NixxxoN]

Mario is better in everything besides the firepunch and the down+b move. Both are very good chars if usen properly.

 

[Daedatheus]

Well, Yoshi has a mad initiator in U-Tilt, an exceptionally hard-to-stop recovery, a useful tool in his DJC (very different to Ness's), and a good set of aerials, plus a nice edgeguard game.

Also, Yoshi is the only char in this game with real powershielding. Of course it's called the "parry" but is effectively the same thing. Time it right and there's no shieldstun. In this game where shieldstun is ridiculously long, that's HUGE.

 

[Lawrencelot]

Mario is better because of falling speed, or speed in general, better fireballs and better approaches. I suck at both chars, but with Luigi I suck more against the better players, just because there's nothing I can do to start a combo. Dair is the only thing he's got, but the horizontal movement is so slow. If your opponent can avoid every move, then good finishers mean nothing.

 

[Daedatheus]

I suck at both chars, but with Luigi I suck more against the better players, just because there's nothing I can do to start a combo. Dair is the only thing he's got, but the horizontal movement is so slow. If your opponent can avoid every move, then good finishers mean nothing.

I use Luigi a lot these days and he is becoming one of my better chars. I find that getting started with Luigi can be tricky. You have to get a certain amount of damage on your opponent with the odd fireball (although they are too easy to dodge compared to Mario's, but not useless) and through catching them with Usmash->techchase, grabs, or Fair->grab before you can effectively combo most characters. That's possibly Luigi's biggest downfall. And yeah his dair is not a good approach tool.

Also when using Luigi you need to learn to fastfall every move. Playing Luigi has helped me master FF nairs/uairs etc. You have to put more effort into making Luigi fast but he can become a beast when you do this. Allows you to space/zone better and set up combos more easily. It's crucial because his floatiness and slow speed make him very vulnerable to faster characters.

His lack of traction is one of his great strengths. You can't really shield-pressure a Luigi unless he's in the corner because whenever your shield gets hit you slide like you're on wet ice. Sometimes this can work against you near edges as you might fly very far and be vulnerable, unlike chars who only slide a little bit and can actually counterattack out of that. Overall it helps you more than anything though. He also performs dash pivot edgehogs with ease.

Luigi also gets very low when he ducks. Ducking shouldn't be underestimated. You can get under projectiles, Falcon's bair and some other stuff by simply ducking. Naturally it's a good way to dodge cross-up shorthop approaches as well. Also while ducking Luigi's dtilt is a nice fast poke with decent priority to keep away approaches that come from low (IE you're on the ledge on Hyrule and someone from rapetent tries to attack).

And of course, versus Jiggly Luigi is the absolute bomb. Just drill->uair->Up+b, then repeat for the next four stocks

Both Mario and Luigi can gimp chars like Falcon & Link with double-dair edgeguards. Save your second jump, do the double dair, then jump, down+b (if needed) and finally up+b to recover after the gimpage.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'll answer each.

"why is mario better than luigi? as far as i can tell, they are the same aside from dash attacks and specials, and luigi's dairs/uairs can end in an over-the-top kill while mario's can't."

Mario is better from luigi for 6 reasons.
1. Luigi's down air is very easy to DI out of compared to mario's.
2. Luigi has a much worse projectiles than mario
3. Luigi has a worse approach than mario.
4. Luigi is much easier to combo due to his high floatiness
5. Luigi has worse priority
6. Luigi has a worse dash grab and a worse shield pressure

This makes it so luigi has a wors ematchup vs top tiers. His main problem is his bad approach and bad priority. also, Mario's up smash kills just as well as the up b and is easier to combo into.

"Also what makes yoshi so good as to rate him above dk, luigi, samus, link? (well i can see link..)"

Even though the tier list is old...yoshi has multiple good properties
1. Yoshi's shield is broken....Yoshi is the only character with a powershield. If used perfectly, yoshi will almost never be hit.
2. Yoshi can use his double jump to cancel out of attacks.
3. Yoshi has a really good Double jump cancel which allows him to attack incredibly quickly
4. moderately good projectile
5. good approach outside a horrible grab.
6. a good recovery if used right
7. As said before, up tilt is broken, it combos into kills and 0 to deaths regardless of percentage.

The main reason why yoshi is not higher is due to the grab and the fact that yoshi has major problems with the top tiers. If yoshi had a better grab...and if he was easier to use, he would be a better character.

Also, by the way,

 

[Daedatheus]

also, Mario's up smash kills just as well as the up b and is easier to combo into.

I'd argue against that point, but everything else you said I agree with.

Everything seems to combo into Luigi's up+b. It can even be used as an escape move and still hit them. You don't need any platforms to set it up and it kills earlier than upsmash on all chars. And you can't combo uptilt -> upsmash for a KO, but you can combo uptilt -> up+b and get the KO.

 

[Wenbobular]

I disagree with Koro's bit about easier to use, heh. Tier lists don't care about being hard to use, just what's humanly possible.

 

[kingdomofthehearts_snucas]

I'll answer each.

"why is mario better than luigi? as far as i can tell, they are the same aside from dash attacks and specials, and luigi's dairs/uairs can end in an over-the-top kill while mario's can't."

Mario is better from luigi for 6 reasons.
1. Luigi's down air is very easy to DI out of compared to mario's.
2. Luigi has a much worse projectiles than mario
3. Luigi has a worse approach than mario.
4. Luigi is much easier to combo due to his high floatiness
5. Luigi has worse priority
6. Luigi has a worse dash grab and a worse shield pressure

Well, those are almost all opinions, #1 is true, #2 is an opinion (i like luigi's more), #3 is an opinion (They are pretty similar, and you can make them equal with practice), #4 is not a fact, if you know how to dodge, #5 is not true at all, #6 Mario and luigi have those same stats :/

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi has awesome stuff too that makes him different but maybe not better than Mario

His down-tilt is amazing, he has surprising amazing early kill potential on floatys/ semi-floatys like jiggly/pika and on the main stages he has amazing repeating up-air combo

His shield pressure with down-air --> up-air isn't bad if you can fast fall in between

 

[Deleted member]

Luigi has awesome stuff too that makes him different but maybe not better than Mario

His down-tilt is amazing, he has surprising amazing early kill potential on floatys/ semi-floatys like jiggly/pika and on the main stages he has amazing repeating up-air combo

His shield pressure with down-air --> up-air isn't bad if you can fast fall in between

 

[asianaussie]

Luigi has awesome stuff too that makes him different but maybe not better than Mario

His down-tilt is amazing, he has surprising amazing early kill potential on floatys/ semi-floatys like jiggly/pika and on the main stages he has amazing repeating up-air combo

His shield pressure with down-air --> up-air isn't bad if you can fast fall in between

Doesn't Mario get all that too?

 

[Fireblaster]

Doesn't Mario get all that too?

Luigi's dtilt is way faster with less range so it can do some silly stuff like trapping against a wall, but it's easily DI-able.

And Mario doesn't really have early kills against lightweights unless he catches them with with a grounded D-air, while Luigi can finish them in the air.

But those two strengths aren't very big and Mario is still far better than Luigi, specially with those fireballs alone.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Well, those are almost all opinions, #1 is true, #2 is an opinion (i like luigi's more), #3 is an opinion (They are pretty similar, and you can make them equal with practice), #4 is not a fact, if you know how to dodge, #5 is not true at all, #6 Mario and luigi have those same stats :/

2. Moving quicker fireball prevents camping. Projectiles are mostly used to prevent camping or for approach. its much more difficult to approach with a slower one direction fireball.
3. Mario has higher priority outside of Up b and down b. Check mario's moves vs luigi's moves.
4. Floatier characters are easier to combo. Also, what do you mean dodging, its smash 64...:D
5. See 3.
6. Dash grab might be the same...but shield pressure is different. Mario has a better shorthop so he has a better shield pressure.

Better shield pressure + better projectile = better character in smash 64.

for wenbobular.....what I mean by playing at a really high level is a top use of parries, DJC, and DJCC. I don't really mean TAS level.....but at a reall quick speed and a high precision. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg4FHI3YJi4 Like this vid....but with less accuracy

 

[Wenbobular]

Sure Koro, but there's players out there that can parry and do all sorts of cool Yoshi things in real time.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

For the most part it depends on the matchup. But in terms of overall effectiveness I do agree that Mario is better at facing most of the cast effectively thanks to his projectile, falling speed, and general speed.

Being able to finish off your opponents is an excellent asset that Luigi has, but getting in a challenge when it takes 2 years just to finish your short hop.

 

[ballin4life]

How are floatier characters easier to combo?

 

[Superstar]

^I'm wondering about this too.

Easier to combo, maybe, but comboable? I'm pretty sure heavier chars get caught in deadlier combos unless you're fighting certain characters. Like Luigi.

 

[Dajayman]

I still prefer Luigi over Mario because there is a Mexican Luigi but no Mexican Mario.

 

[MattNF]

4. Floatier characters are easier to combo.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I meant luigi is easier to combo than mario....lol....

 

[Daedatheus]

I still prefer Luigi over Mario because there is a Mexican Luigi but no Mexican Mario.

I believe that's original NES mario you're talking about there...

or should I say as my bro once called it, "Sicilian" Luigi. Nice tan from staying out in the sun, being an Italian plumber is a cushy job

 

[Kefit]

Luigi's got really ******** combos. His ridiculous combos, once they've started, are even stupider than Falcon's: Luigi's upB kills every character from pretty much anywhere, the combo is trivial to keep going, and if upB doesn't work then you still can finish with downB.

But as I've hinted, the problem is starting the combos. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard. So much can start the combos: a lucky utilt, sometimes usmash, random aerials, throwing into a wall, dair into uair on the ground, the list goes on. Often when I use Luigi I end up unexpectedly hitting with the edge of a weakened aerial through luck or happenstance and am then able to convert that into combo into a kill.

Unfortunately Luigi moves like a piece of paper thrown against the wind. Sure, you can help this a bit with fast falls and the like, but that's true for every character. Luigi's sluggish speed and lack of a useful projectile render his approach nearly nonexistent. What's the good of all those combos if you can't even hit your opponent to get them started in the first place?

Mario, on the other hand, is nimble and spry in comparison. His faster speed allows him to have a real approach, and his fireball is wonderful for dash grab shenanigans, among many other things. He may not have Luigi's combo cheese, but he does just fine with comboing into usmash and comboing into hits off the edge + edge-guarding.

To make a long story short: I can consistently launch into Luigi's combos from a wide variety of situations. But I still do much better against decent opponents with Mario simply because I can actually HIT them with Mario. Luigi's approach really sucks that bad.

 

[Dajayman]

Well I meant there's only Mexican Luigi in Smash64, Mario does not have a Mexican alternate color. I also find it funny that both Mario and Luigi blush in hitstun and during some of their attacks (fireball and tornado/cyclone).

 

[Skrlx]

YO LAY OFF OF WEEGEE'S BACk already
weegee for top tier

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

falcon for BEEF! tier

 

[xx0EleMenT0xx]

Mario is just better plain and simple even a noob knows that

 

[NixxxoN]

Luigi's got really ******** combos. His ridiculous combos, once they've started, are even stupider than Falcon's: Luigi's upB kills every character from pretty much anywhere, the combo is trivial to keep going, and if upB doesn't work then you still can finish with downB.

But as I've hinted, the problem is starting the combos. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard. So much can start the combos: a lucky utilt, sometimes usmash, random aerials, throwing into a wall, dair into uair on the ground, the list goes on. Often when I use Luigi I end up unexpectedly hitting with the edge of a weakened aerial through luck or happenstance and am then able to convert that into combo into a kill.

Unfortunately Luigi moves like a piece of paper thrown against the wind. Sure, you can help this a bit with fast falls and the like, but that's true for every character. Luigi's sluggish speed and lack of a useful projectile render his approach nearly nonexistent. What's the good of all those combos if you can't even hit your opponent to get them started in the first place?

Mario, on the other hand, is nimble and spry in comparison. His faster speed allows him to have a real approach, and his fireball is wonderful for dash grab shenanigans, among many other things. He may not have Luigi's combo cheese, but he does just fine with comboing into usmash and comboing into hits off the edge + edge-guarding.

To make a long story short: I can consistently launch into Luigi's combos from a wide variety of situations. But I still do much better against decent opponents with Mario simply because I can actually HIT them with Mario. Luigi's approach really sucks that bad.

Luigi is more of a campy and counterattacking char than mario, and the problem with luigi as you said is doing the initial damage to the opponent. Once you've done that, its just a matter of little time to do an uair(s) to up+b combo.