Mario's Up-B Wall Jump....With Samus?

[Champloo]

Hey guys, it's a me. Might have accidentally discovered a whacky tech again lol.

I was playing in training mode on FOD and went off stage for an edge guard on the left side. Went to recover with up-b and all of a sudden I did a wall jump OUT of the up-b before grabbing the ledge. I did some research and couldn't find any mention of Samus having that kind of tech and the closest thing I could think of is Mario's up-b wall jump cancel thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtLC_cYFKTs

OR a doraki instant wall jump: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/29uvlv/doraki_instant_walljump

However I don't think it was the latter as I didn't grab ledge before the wall jump happened and I actually saw the up-b particle effect follow me for the first half of the wall jump and kind of slowly dissipate (looked pretty awesome!). I was riding up the left side of the stage and might have flicked the stick back to the left when it happened.

There's a small chance this was a 20XX bug as I wasn't playing on vanilla but I don't think it would effect the game's physics like that. And I'm positive it wasn't accidental save state shenanigans because I don't hold the controller in a way that I can hit the d-pad by mistake. *edit* I was playing on the 2nd most recent version, 3.05 I think? The one before 4.05 with the crazy cpu's.

I've tried replicating it but I'm not even sure what inputs I did to make it happen so after 15 minutes or so of randomly pressing buttons I'm turning this over to the lab monsters again. Since my last accidental discovery turned up some interesting results I'm hoping this might do the same. And if Samus DOES have an up-b wall jump I feel like that might actually have some impact on gameplay, as opposed to the pseudo-platform cancel tech I am taking partial credit for lol

Cheers

*EDIT* listing off whatever details I can remember to make researching this easier:
- Wall jump happened around 1/2-3/4 of the way through up-b
- Was low enough at the start to not be able to land on stage, high enough to grab ledge
- Started up-b on the left side of FOD, roughly one character width away from the wall
- Held right after startup to hug the wall on the way up and might have flicked control stick to the left
- Wall jump looked like it happened at roughly the same timing you would need for a wall-jump from normal jump, and right after I may have flicked left
- Was facing stage
- Was playing with wall jump recovery beforehand, might have unknowingly "stored" a wall jump like for doraki instant wall jump. Fairly certain I entered free-fall before the up-b though so that might not be relevant?
- Had hit a CPU off stage and the CPU was relatively close to me trying to recover when the wall jump happened. I doubt that would matter but included it anyway
- Screw attack particle effect persisted during the first half of the wall jump animation, surrounding the character model before fading away at roughly the same time it would had the wall jump not occurred.
- Playing in Training Mode on the 2nd most recent 20XX version, the one before the crazy CPU's (which is 3.02 I believe?)

 

[Litt]

Hey guys, it's a me. Might have accidentally discovered a whacky tech again lol.

I was playing in training mode on FOD and went off stage for an edge guard on the left side. Went to recover with up-b and all of a sudden I did a wall jump OUT of the up-b before grabbing the ledge. I did some research and couldn't find any mention of Samus having that kind of tech and the closest thing I could think of is Mario's up-b wall jump cancel thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtLC_cYFKTs

OR a doraki instant wall jump: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/29uvlv/doraki_instant_walljump

However I don't think it was the latter as I didn't grab ledge before the wall jump happened and I actually saw the up-b particle effect follow me for the first half of the wall jump and kind of slowly dissipate (looked pretty awesome!). I was riding up the left side of the stage and might have flicked the stick back to the left when it happened.

There's a small chance this was a 20XX bug as I wasn't playing on vanilla but I don't think it would effect the game's physics like that. And I'm positive it wasn't accidental save state shenanigans because I don't hold the controller in a way that I can hit the d-pad by mistake. *edit* I was playing on the 2nd most recent version, 3.05 I think? The one before 4.05 with the crazy cpu's.

I've tried replicating it but I'm not even sure what inputs I did to make it happen so after 15 minutes or so of randomly pressing buttons I'm turning this over to the lab monsters again. Since my last accidental discovery turned up some interesting results I'm hoping this might do the same. And if Samus DOES have an up-b wall jump I feel like that might actually have some impact on gameplay, as opposed to the pseudo-platform cancel tech I am taking partial credit for lol

Cheers

Chance you might have ledge canceled the up b and wall jumped before regrabbing

@Goomy thoughts?

 

[Champloo]

Change you might have ledge canceled the up b and wall jumped before regrabbing

Hmm it happened two days ago by now so I can't be 100% sure but I doubt it, I think I was trying to sweet spot so I was too low to land on stage. Plus I think that would have ended the particle effect from the up-b

 

[Metallinatus]

Do you remember at what point of the Screw Attack more or less the wall jump happened?

 

[Champloo]

Do you remember at what point of the Screw Attack more or less the wall jump happened?

I'd say roughly 2/3 of the way through the animation which I guess is why the particle effect was still there during the wall jump. That also makes it slightly different from Mario's (assuming it's something similar)

*edit* Since it happened a while ago now and I've only managed to do it the one time I'll say anywhere between 1/2-3/4 of the way through the animation

 

[Litt]

--in the air--
Total: 47
Invincible: 1-3
Hit: 4-5, 6-7, 8-9, 10-11, 12-13,
14-15, 16-17, 18-19, 20-21, 22-23,
24-25, 26-27
can grab edge as soon as 38...

Its possible to ledge cancel while particle effect still active

 

[Metallinatus]

Yeah, well, I wasn't able to replicate it either....
But what about that thing ESAM did at DH? He went to tethergrab the ledge and got a big momentum upwards.... everybody else seemed to be as impressed as me from that. Is it something new or not?

 

[Litt]

Yeah, well, I wasn't able to replicate it either....
But what about that thing ESAM did at DH? He went to tethergrab the ledge and got a big momentum upwards.... everybody else seemed to be as impressed as me from that. Is it something new or not?

It is not new in the slightest, 2004 tech. Just risky because if you mess up the command slightly, you dont get the momentum boost and just grapple in place or slightly up and die

 

[Metallinatus]

It is not new in the slightest, 2004 tech. Just risky because if you mess up the command slightly, you dont get the momentum boost and just grapple in place or slightly up and die

lol Ok, I think that was the first time I saw it (and people on the chat and on the stream went crazy with it too), but I'm still pretty new to the competitive Melee and Smash in general scene, so yeah....

 

[Litt]

well, its nothing new or difficult. same with extendur, you just don't see it often not because its new but just because its not that great but it has some uses. Lets keep this post topic relevant and if you want to find out more about rising grapple, post in the gen discussion or go to the discord group

 

[Champloo]

Can't remember the exact moment you're talking about but sounds like the zair super jump thing? Yeah that's super old lol.

Litt I know you can edge cancel up-b early on in the move but I'm pretty sure the visual goes away as soon as you land. I definitely saw the screw attack visual effect follow me while I was in a wall jump animation. Besides, I'm 99% sure I wasn't high enough to land on stage at the time.

As an aside question, does Samus even have enough aerial drift to barely land on stage into an edge cancel? I've seen Westballz's "insan" falcon do that but that's falcon

 

[Litt]

Can't remember the exact moment you're talking about but sounds like the zair super jump thing? Yeah that's super old lol.

Litt I know you can edge cancel up-b early on in the move but I'm pretty sure the visual goes away as soon as you land. I definitely saw the screw attack visual effect follow me while I was in a wall jump animation. Besides, I'm 99% sure I wasn't high enough to land on stage at the time.

As an aside question, does Samus even have enough aerial drift to barely land on stage into an edge cancel? I've seen Westballz's "insan" falcon do that but that's falcon

Yup samus has enough aerial drift, and I cannot think of anything else that could elicit a wall jump around an up b. I know you can cancel the up b if you are forced off a surface when it begins like randell or windmill on pkmn stadium but ive never seen, experienced or heard of wall jump out of samus's up b

 

[Champloo]

Yup samus has enough aerial drift, and I cannot think of anything else that could elicit a wall jump around an up b. I know you can cancel the up b if you are forced off a surface when it begins like randell or windmill on pkmn stadium but ive never seen, experienced or heard of wall jump out of samus's up b

Cool to know but I'd imagine that's pretty frame tight? And neither had I, but that's why I made this thread. For other people to investigate as I don't really have the knowledge/time to do so myself. Speaking of which, @GoomySmash or @BillNyeTheSamusGuy, either of you think you'd be willing to check this out?

 

[Bell Pepper]

Is there anyway that you could get a video of this?

 

[Litt]

Is there anyway that you could get a video of this?

Did you not read the thread? He did it once, and could not replicate. No there is no way he could get a video of it so he asked Goomy and BillNye to TAS test this to see if there was anything missed in attributes of samus's up b

 

[Champloo]

Is there anyway that you could get a video of this?

lol a slightly less condescending version of what Litt said: Even if I could manage to do it again I don't have recording software so I'm leaving it to the lab monsters to play with. Last thing I discovered by accident ended up with this (http://smashboards.com/threads/runoff-nair-aerial-interrupt.427571/) so here'es hoping this is real as well

 

[Bell Pepper]

lol a slightly less condescending version of what Litt said: Even if I could manage to do it again I don't have recording software so I'm leaving it to the lab monsters to play with. Last thing I discovered by accident ended up with this (http://smashboards.com/threads/runoff-nair-aerial-interrupt.427571/) so here'es hoping this is real as well

Yeah I understand your problem. The good news is that if you somehow figure how to do it somewhat consistently, dolphin comes with recording software built into it, if you have a computer that's able to emulate 20xx that'd be the easiest way to do it. Unless you want to get a capture card and try to do it that way. Just as an FYI. Hope this turns into something helpful

 

[Bell Pepper]

Did you not read the thread? He did it once, and could not replicate. No there is no way he could get a video of it so he asked Goomy and BillNye to TAS test this to see if there was anything missed in attributes of samus's up b

I did read the thread but I didn't think it would hurt to ask again man wow so hostile

 

[343]

@schmooblidon wrote an interesting guide on mario upb walljump: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mechanics-of-up-b-walljump.425622/, so he might know more about this?

 

[Champloo]

@schmooblidon wrote an interesting guide on mario upb walljump: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-mechanics-of-up-b-walljump.425622/, so he might know more about this?

Whoops, thought Goomy was schmooblidon for some reason haha. My mistake. Also that's a really great, in-depth guide :D

 

[Litt]

I did read the thread but I didn't think it would hurt to ask again man wow so hostile

You were warned for the double post, (unnecessary double post and I was not being hostile). I was asking if you actually read the OP because if so, it would have been made clear that no video was available of him performing the tech and on subsequent posts it was stated that neither he nor others could replicate. It did not hurt but it added more unnecessary filler in this debunked thread which you could have ascertained from the OP. I clarified the situation for you incase you did not read or understand the OP... which was the reason I asked initially. Please do not get so defensive, I am a senator/super-mod now so I have behave

 

[Champloo]

Litt He asked if there was any way I could GET footage. The man was just curious and I think everyone would agree that being condescending as all hell counts as being hostile. And for the record, things are not debunked by you not knowing about them. That's why human social interaction still exists.

 

[Litt]

C Champloo of course he asked if you could get footage, I did not misread or misunderstand his question. I was simply telling him that you were unable to capture the original tech along with being unable to replicate is the same thing as answering that question so I clarified for him. Just because I was not the OP does not mean I can't answer a question I know the answer to. Just because you guys want to interpret what I said as condescending, "condescending as hell" does not mean it was or is. One can feel spoken down to without that being the intent of the speaker, but that is an issue he and apparently you have to deal with since I clarified it not being my intent.

Condescending: "Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority."
I asked him a genuine question, which may be the point of confusion regarding the issue of "patronizing superiority" if he had read the OP or not. I did not insult his intelligence for not grasping that no video was available or could be available through the logic I spelled out, I simply just spelled out why there could not be a video. This explanation did not come from a place of superiority since there was no talking down to him. So really both of you, cool your jets, I was not talking down to you or him, I was just addressing a point he made. Remember, I am authority on here now so please respect it

As for the debunking of the thread, I was referring to the other posts on here not topic relevant, i.e. Esam rising grapple discussion.

 

[Champloo]

Litt Ok fair enough, tone is hard to read on the internet. But also to be fair on our part you have a, shall we say storied history on these boards and I don't think I've ever seen an effort to clarify that you aren't being condescending

 

[Litt]

Litt Ok fair enough, tone is hard to read on the internet. But also to be fair on our part you have a, shall we say storied history on these boards and I don't think I've ever seen an effort to clarify that you aren't being condescending

I am a mod now, I have to set a positive example for how to behave. Much less fun but meh power is nice. And regardless of history, you cannot expect future tone to always follow suit, especially when there is no indication of negative attitude or remarks in the post. You and Bell just essentially picked up pitch forks for a whole heartedly innocent post as well as insulted me. I understand my history on here and that is why I calmly explained myself and intent. You should think twice about who the "bad guy" is because it can easily turn into you when you make incorrect assumptions.

 

[Champloo]

"Did you not read the thread" is pretty easy to take as condescending. Same with "not new in the slightest" or suggesting I didn't see a 10-20 frame animation of a ledge cancel grab ledge. Almost everything I've seen you write on here has a similar tone and even if you sincerely don't intend it that way, after years of people mistaking it as you being hostile but not making an effort to change that at some point it becomes an issue with how you choose to present yourself and not how people interpret it.

 

[Litt]

"Did you not read the thread" is pretty easy to take as condescending. Same with "not new in the slightest" or suggesting I didn't see a 10-20 frame animation of a ledge cancel grab ledge. Almost everything I've seen you write on here has a similar tone and even if you sincerely don't intend it that way, after years of people mistaking it as you being hostile but not making an effort to change that at some point it becomes an issue with how you choose to present yourself and not how people interpret it.

"tone is hard to read on the internet." - Champloo
... yet you admitted to interpreting my tone as condescending as a result of my history instead of in the content it was presented. Not but a few posts earlier.... "Almost everything I've seen you write on here has a similar tone" :O No really dude? You just admitted that you interpret my tone based on past actions, so of course all future tone will be interpreted the same way.

The only thing I can say to you is get your head out of your own bias and read for what is there instead of what you want to be there from your less than favorable opinion of me. Not new in the slightest aka one of the oldest unique grapple character techs to be found. The user asked if it was recently discovered and I explained how old the tech was. That in its essence cannot be condescending since he asked a question, he didn't claim it to be new. Condescending comes from a place of patronizing superiority, however one cannot look down on another for not having knowledge they have not been exposed to. However one can be looked down upon for making claims of knowledge they do not have or do not understand as a result their ignorance.

The active frames of the up b end at 29, and there are 10 additional frames which the particles stay active and can be ledge canceled, then fall fell into a wall jump (theoretically) which would give the illusion of wall jumping out of the up B. This was the only and best explanation to account for an alternate explanation to a wall jump out of the Up B since it is known that only mario can jump out of the up B and that this tech was unable to be replicated nor has it ever occurred in the 15 years melee has been out. You believing me posing an alternate theory where you could have say blinked and missed a few frames (10-20 frames being a fraction of a second) as condescending, then I am sorry you should get some thicker skin.

 

[Champloo]

Litt Ok I'm done lol. I rarely ever go on smashboards but I've seen even plup call you out on this same issue like 3 years ago. You refuse to see how your words can be taken offensively when just about every post you make has some level of condescension to it. It's not that I don't have thick skin, it's that it leads me to believe that you're an insufferable prick who has to let everyone know he knows more than them every chance he gets. Ban me or whatever big mod man. Same as everyone else I come here to learn about melee, not so you can vicariously live out your childhood dream of being the 7th grade hall monitor. Feel free to reply, I'm not going to read it

 

[Litt]

Litt Ok I'm done lol. I rarely ever go on smashboards but I've seen even plup call you out on this same issue like 3 years ago. You refuse to see how your words can be taken offensively when just about every post you make has some level of condescension to it. It's not that I don't have thick skin, it's that it leads me to believe that you're an insufferable prick who has to let everyone know he knows more than them every chance he gets. Ban me or whatever big mod man. Same as everyone else I come here to learn about melee, not so you can vicariously live out your childhood dream of being the 7th grade hall monitor. Feel free to reply, I'm not going to read it

Plup literally never called me out of this, he actually said himself that before I came on here the boards were dead. I can link you to the post if you want. Sure I started off rather offensive and controversial however, as stated before I am a moderator now and need to restrict inappropriate behavior. You however fail to realize that regardless of what content I post, you always see my remarks as condescending as a result of your own bias towards me as previously pointed out, and you admitted to doing yourself.

I am sorry that you are as misinformed as you are biased towards me, however personally insulting me as you just did was not appropriate. I think you should learn first how to conduct yourself around others on here because the way you just acted was leagues worse than acting condescending in any way shape or form. To quote myself from above, "You should think twice about who the "bad guy" is because it can easily turn into you when you make incorrect assumptions." On here, I am a staff member who was just insulted for defending a post which was not condescending as a result of your own personal hatred towards myself. You are in the wrong here and have been infracted, people change, I suggest you try to do the same with your inability to see past your dislike of others.

 

[Champloo]

My content was deemed inappropriate by SWF staff, should I continue to post like this I will be given a permanent infraction.

 

[Litt]

If any new content regarding this supposed tech comes into light, a new thread can be made however Champloo cannot contain himself and lets his discontent towards myself rule his own emotions and perception of my tone towards other users so to prevent this from getting any further out of hand this thread is now locked.