Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Europhoria]

Do a pivot grab for your chainthrowing in those situations.

 

[Randizzle]

if you're not re-grabbing there's a good chance he's behind you (so turn around). The main thing is that you'll want a lot of practice so you can learn what side to grab. Also, at later percents in the chain grab, pivot grabs can make it easier to grab when they fall right above you.

using shield breaker of the stage works sometimes, but it's often more effective to edgeguard with ledgehop aerials, or various methods on the stage.

ledge teching is used if you're really close the edge and you get hit. you get hit, you tech immediately (may require ASDI or SDI) and you don't go flying away, thus giving you another chance to recover. you usually just use it for surviving edgeguarding.

 

[knightpraetor]

so i have a question..in some m2k videos i watched..mew2king was getting hit by an awful lot of upsmashes from sheik's dthrow..now this is avoidable if he either jumps out or he can hover with b forward

so why do you think m2k gets tagged so much in these matches (drephen vs m2k at fcd..pools)

so basically there are two di's that let you get behind sheik...angled behind gets you above and behind sheik..while directly behind gets you directly behind sheik ( at low damages at least)

now, from the looks of it he's doing the right DI..up and behind (down and behind puts you roughly in the same place but closer to sheik's front..so is worse usually)..but he keeps missing the jump out..has he just not had enough practice at it? or maybe at some percents you can't get out before the upsmash? i know that at no percents can you get out before the sheik has time to tilt..but upsmash hits rather low so that you just need to get slightly above it

 

[lexxil]

Mute city is the ultimate stage cp against sheik imo, but BF and FD are good too.

lol pwning Shieks UP B Lag there is very funny :>

 

[Dark Sonic]

are you trying to say away and down at really low percents prevents you from landing on your feet and you tech from a tumble instead.techchased?

No, what I'm saying is that away and down DI won't cause you to tumble for a while anyway, so you can still use it without worrying about the possibility of being tech chased. If you reach the percent at which you would tumble, then you have to decide between getting f-smashed, fair'd, ect with away DI, or getting tech chased with down DI. That's bassically the percent gap that you mentioned before.

At high percents (I usually start at about 90%) you can resume using the Down DI in addition to the away DI because you have enough time to fair before you hit the ground even with the down DI. Despite what some people think, using the Down DI with the Away DI will actually make you go farther sideways. That's because even though DI doesn't technically change the distance you travel in total, it does change the trajectory which means that any distance you would've gone vertically is added to your horizontal path.

 

[knightpraetor]

ya ok that's what i do for the most part, away and down most of the time unless i feel like jumping out to counter (only for marth dittos for the most part)..uggh i mean aerial..meh annoying that we have a move with the word counter..anyways..i'd noticed a long time ago that there is that stupid gap where you have to choose the di type and risk something..that's a good place for marth's to know about though so they can trick their opponent there hopefully and get the easy kill.

anyways, thanks for the help..i enjoy reading this thread...

on a side note...fox's shine comboes on sheik..are they dodgeable only with di? i was trying to remember how far you get pushed...it's not nearly as far as marth does

sigh i really wish there was someone to play during the summer..i forget everything

 

[pockyD]

i believe you can break out of repeated drillshines (as sheik) but a grab is guaranteed if that's what he goes for

 

[Salaad]

I need help with spacing. When I SH and want to SHFFL anything, I am interupted. I try to WD backwards to get some spacing, doesn't work. Any tips on spacing?

 

[knightpraetor]

interrupted? are you trying to shffl with them on top of you? marth usually only falls to feints not superior aerial priority..so if they're interrupting you that implies you either started the shffl way too late or too close..so dashdance backwards or wd around..if you can't do that..just run away while bairing or something..but most of all don't attempt an aerial if you don't have the spacing..getting interrupted as marth shouldn't happen much unless the opponent left you in lag by a feint or by you miscalling an opponents position (happens to the best of us of which i am not one of course though my tech skill is getting pretty inordinate)

 

[Kada]

There's been one question that's been bugging me for a little while. I don't really want to go back 41 pages to see if it's been asked already, so forgive me if it's been answered before =P

When renewing your ledge invincibility, I usually prefer to fastfall by pressing down on the control stick, and then jumping again. But when I watch other Marth's, they don't fastfall, they just press away from the stage, and fall normally. My question is, does how you fall from the edge before you jump affect how well you keep your invincibility, or is it just personal preference? I figure that more people would probably be doing it my way if it didn't make even a slight difference...

 

[Andrew Ott]

So they don't accidentally SD, and it's slower so easier to time double jump for sweetspot.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think it might actually be better to fastfall from the edge because you keep your invincibility for a greater percentage of the time. I'd guess most people don't do that so they don't get edgehogged as easily.

 

[knightpraetor]

i agree, fastfall and learn to time it


ANYWAYS ON a much more IMPORTANT note....because i can't post this without breaking forum rules in its own thread like it deserves.

But officially mew2king is now worth 16 stock..

he preceded to take out. Ken Isai, some marth i don't know, and manacloud...talk about a beast

 

[Devotion]

I need help on approaching samus, i play my friend's samus a lot and if he plays really defensive its hard for me to do much. I heard a lot of things of either sh f-airs to counter missile spam or just full hop em to avoid em completely. I'd really like to know my best option here since it really gets annoying..

 

[Randizzle]

you said the answer yourself. you can get through the missiles by jumping around them and swatting them out with fairs. keep good spacing and lots of pressure on samus so she doesn't have room to spam you.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

There really is no "best option" because if you get predictable, you're going to get punished. You don't always want to fair away the missiles, because there's the possibility that they'll follow up with a Charge Shot, provided the missiles are jump cancelled.

It doesn't hurt to try a nair approach along with the above options. It has two hits, so you can try to get the first hit to cancel out the missile and the second to hit Samus.

EDIT: Or try a counter approach. Don't do it too much though. Actually... a Dancing Blade combo might even work. Be creative!

 

[Devotion]

Ok cool i'll try it it out when i play today.

 

[JBM falcon08]

just throwing this out, but would it be a good idea to up+b while a person is below you when your holding the edge? to hit them against the stage or like FD for instance spiking them into the stage causing them to go straight down?

i have yet to try it i just thought i'd throw it out.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Well I mean, yeah it could be good but it would take a lot of practice and there's a lot of better options to consider, like fairing them or dairing them. Also, the problem with stage-spiking them is that they can tech it. I mean, they're not gonna see it coming but if they catch on they'll tech it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I thought my guideline thread would have been stickied by now..and judging by how many "bad" topics were made recently, it really needs to be.

good thing this thread is still high up and working.

 

[Salaad]

I'm trying to follow Isai's words of "Don't get hit" but then I'm just running away. How do I avoid fox's spikes when I'm returning to the stage?

 

[Dark Sonic]

I've got a ledgeteching question. Why is it that nobody simply air dodges up and onto the stage after succesfully ledgeteching. On less laggy edgeguards like Marth's d-tilt I could see why they'd rather just up B again, but if you tech a f-smash then there's really not much they can do to punish you if you were to just air dodge back up after the tech. I think that it's better than repeated edgeguarding so why does nobody do it?

 

[knightpraetor]

no clue..i've nvr tried..but that's not an excuse..it's no harder then immediate phantasm to ledge but i don't do that well either:\

 

[Takeshi245]

How do you beat Ice Climbers with Marth?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

just throwing this out, but would it be a good idea to up+b while a person is below you when your holding the edge? to hit them against the stage or like FD for instance spiking them into the stage causing them to go straight down?

i have yet to try it i just thought i'd throw it out.

The problem with that is that if you miss, you'd be right on the edge without a double jump and with a lot of lag. It'd probably be better to go with a nair or a Shield Breaker or something along that line. A ledgehopped dair would work too, I think.

I'm trying to follow Isai's words of "Don't get hit" but then I'm just running away. How do I avoid fox's spikes when I'm returning to the stage?

You should probably try to go above him so if he tries to come out, you can dair him. I suppose on an even plane too, you could fair him when he tries it. Your hitbox has a lot more reach than his shine, so just watch him carefully.

How do you beat Ice Climbers with Marth?

Don't get grabbed, I guess. You outrange them by a lot, so use that to your advantage. Also, if you can keep them above you, your upward attacks should eat through their dair. Oh, and once Nana is dead, Popo should be pretty easy to edgeguard.

 

[Silver Sytos]

I've heard the fair-> dtilt works wonders on ice climbers.

 

[Dark Sonic]

How do you beat Ice Climbers with Marth?

Space your attacks and try not to rely on grabs to much. D-tilt eats through them because they normally have to make their approach on the ground. Any time you seperate them you should shift your focus to the one that would be easiest to kill (most of the time it's Nana, but sometimes you'll seperate them and be in a nice spot to get rid of Popo.) If you kill Nana or she is far away then grabs become a nice option against them. I'm really hoping Emblem Lord could give some more advice about this match up because most of my advice is general knowledge.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You could try a dsmash every once in a while too. It helps to separate them a little because of its different trajectories at different spots (vertical at the tip of your sword, horizontal otherwise) and it comes out in just five frames! Be careful though, because it's got pretty bad lag, unless you've got one of them on each side.

 

[Dark Sonic]

You could try a dsmash every once in a while too. It helps to separate them a little because of its different trajectories at different spots (vertical at the tip of your sword, horizontal otherwise) and it comes out in just five frames! Be careful though, because it's got pretty bad lag, unless you've got one of them on each side.

Actually it hit's vertical for a large portion of the sword, not just at the tip. The difference is that the tip has much more knockback than the rest of that area. From the hilt to about halfway up the blade hits horizontally, but the rest is vertical.

 

[Salaad]

Simple question, does Dtilt **** a Fox that is Dash attack friendly? Cause I would be CCing and they wouldn't have a chance...or am I answering my own question? Because the Dash attack approach kills me...

 

[JesiahTEG]

Simple question, does Dtilt **** a Fox that is Dash attack friendly? Cause I would be CCing and they wouldn't have a chance...or am I answering my own question? Because the Dash attack approach kills me...

Ok, I've actually had a lot of practice vs fox's dash attack. Your going to want to do 1 of 3 things.

First, to stop the attack and get a grab, just Dash dance grab. Dash dance away from the dash attack, and then dash dance back in real fast to get the grab. It works well on a lot of dash attacks actually.

Second, you can shieldgrab it but be very very careful cuz sometimes they end up behind your sheild, and you'll end up grabbing nothing and getting punished for it.

Third, if they do go behind your shield, use Dair out of shield, but make sure you control your DI so once you hit them you move forward, moving out of their range in case they CC it or something.

You should probably try to go above him so if he tries to come out, you can dair him. I suppose on an even plane too, you could fair him when he tries it. Your hitbox has a lot more reach than his shine, so just watch him carefully.

no, no no no lol. If a fox is trying to shine spike you, don't ever go above him lol. Basically, with marth ALWAYS come from under the stage, and sweetspot the ledge every time. If you see him coming down for the shine spike, just use your UP B. It's incredibly hard for a fox to shine you out of your up b cuz it comes so fast and there's no way to predict when your going to use it.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Also, you could try retreating fairs or a backward wavedash against the dash attack since it's pretty laggy.

I didn't mean like way above them, I meant just high enough to airdodge to the stage. The knockback of the shine is increased towards the bottom of the hexagon, according to CunningKitsune's guide. But yeah, mix it up.

 

[Salaad]

1) I <3 this thread.

2) When do I press L/R when Ledgeteching with Marth?

3) Those Shine Spikes are still killing me! If I go for an aerial, I risk not making back on stage.

4) Thanks to everyone who has answered questions and given tips in this thread because it REALLY helps me and I'm sure it helps others too. xD

 

[Imperial Wraith]

1) So you should xD

2) Within 20 frames of grabbing the ledge, I think.

3) Shine spikes will always be irritating. Look at that match between Shiz and Forward, Forward slipped up a few times and got completely destroyed. I guess you do have to take the risk with an aerial, but more importantly you gotta try and mix up your recoveries as much as possible. I don't really play any good spacies so others could probably give you better advice.

4) Yaaayuuuhzzz!

 

[Salaad]

I'm still having trouble with ledge teching, I use motion sensor bombs in training and I keep trying but it won't work...=/

Also, for pivoting, should I do the attack/grab I want right after I jam the control stick back to where I want to face or should I be doing it at the same time?

 

[ArcNatural]

Motion sensor training with Marth will not work. Since you will set off the bomb while you are well away from the stage with the sword. It's easier to just practice teching with another character if you plan on using bombs. You can press L or R pretty much right after the instant you hit upB and you will tech if you get hit and touch the wall.

Pivoting is down AS your bring the control stick across. So I tend to just do it almost at the same time as bringing it across.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Motion sensor training with Marth will not work. Since you will set off the bomb while you are well away from the stage with the sword. It's easier to just practice teching with another character if you plan on using bombs. You can press L or R pretty much right after the instant you hit upB and you will tech if you get hit and touch the wall.

It still works with Marth if you're hugging the stage while up Bing. Practicing with other characters doesn't work as well for me because most other characters have slower up Bs which makes the timing for smash DIing easier for them. I've been experiementing with quarter circle DI lately and I've found it to be very effective because of the speed of Marth's up B. All I do is up B and continue to move the control stick towards the horizontal postition. I press R as soon as I up B and the quarter circle motion of the control stick inputs smash DI on every single frame, which means I'll tech 1 frame after I get hit. I highly recomend this method for ledge teching because it's fairly easy to learn and has a near 100% success rate (provided you don't stop moving the control stick at any time and also don't move it too fast.)

 

[Salaad]

Wow, this is heaven, can it get ANY better? The tips you guys give me help me A LOT. I really appreciate the in-depth Advice/Tips...(Although I feel really nooby being the only one asking questions.)

Sorry if that was off-topic. So I guess I'll have to be asking my bro to Edge Guard me so I can practice Ledge Teching. xD


*Marth Heaven*

 

[elvenarrow3000]

The fair usually won't interrupt your recovery that much and its arc gives you a fair amount of protection. No pun intended. If you look at it logically, you can either fair and have a good chance of surviving or get shinespiked and have no chance at all.

Quarter circle DI... how do you apply that to a non-ledgetech situation? I usually only do two kinds of DIs (up and towards, down and away) but I hear the "Japanese DI" is a lot more effective.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Well, Japanese DI isn't a direction persay, but rather a different way to DI altogether. Most people call it "Double Stick DI", and it's where you use the C-stick and the Control stick to DI. For example:

Peach's forward throw. You DI that using towards on the C-stick, and up on the Control stick, since the C-stick takes priority over the control stick.

I think. lol pretty sure though.