escajehubus said:
5. Play styles: Falco has to play close up, right? right. Well of course not if your gonna spam lasers, but hey...you said advanced players are playing, soooo. Advanced falco players know that they have to get close to even try to do damage. Marth has this really useful thing called a Tipper, it's the hitbox at the end of his sword, and it hits harder and has extraordinary knockback. yeah, A good falco can't get close if a good Marth is playing him.
What?
1) Falco WILL spam lasers. Lasers are not a scrubby tactic, they’re law.
2) Falco doesn't use lasers to build damage.
3) Falco uses his laser to:
-limit his opponent's movement
-Spacing
-Forcing his opponent to approach.
-Mind games
-Setting up a 'combo'
4) Falco's reflector is greater than (or equal to, I can never remember...either way, the distance that Marth must reach to be 'within range' of Falco leaves him valnuerable to Shine) Marth's Tipper in terms of range.
5) Falco is never required to approach Marth. As a consequence, Marth must play aggressively.
-Brawl caters to defensive play...the defending player has more options available and can punish approaches.
-Escajehubus, you say a good Falco can't get close to a good Marth? He wouldn't need to. Marth is required to get close to Falco. Not vice versa.
-Marth might outrange Falco in most areas, but Marth still has a problem approaching Falco. Marth won't be able to effectively SH F-Air (because of lasers) and his Dash attack is shield-grabbable.
-Marth requires getting near Falco, stopping within a properly spaced distance and spamming a variety of moves trying to force Falco to make the first move.
*This works, but Falco's reflector and his laser still out range Marth. Phantasm can hit the unsuspecting Marth and Falco's AAA combo pings with most of Marth's attacks. Even though Falco lacks range, he can still fight and compete. Should Marth mess up even a smidgen on his spacing, the advantage goes to Falco. Falco has a very good roll/spot dodge. And they both build into a quick, lagless D-Smash or U-Smash.
*This match-up isn't anywhere near as "cut and dry" as you made it seem.
I believe this matchup is…relatively even. Mainly because I believe the better player will win, regardless of the character they use. Marth and Falco are a two-man rock paper scissors game, where each have their strengths and weaknesses against each other. Marth has a slight advantage in more areas, but Falco has one or two blatantly significant advantages.
If you lessen the significance of Falco's laser, and lessen the significance of offensive/defensive play (where Falco can be aggressive and defensive, but Marth can only be aggressive) and you put emphasis on range, then Marth has the advantage.
You can tilt either character into sounding like he has the advantage here. Which leaves me to believe it's probably as even as a match-up is going to get. The better player will win and he won't be limited by the capabilities of his character. He’ll only be limited by his knowledge of the game and his skill. Both characters have a viable strategy against each other, and there is by no means a broken factor which makes the fight ‘easier’ for one side.
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Lasers work badly since Marth can attack pretty much instantly after being hit with, for instant, Fair, which makes lasers ineffective for approach.
What? Rimmer...Lasers work against Marth identical to the way they work against other opponents. Now, if you're using it to build damage on Marth, you'll doing it wrong. A smart Falco will use lasors to limit positioning and force Marth into an unfamiliar footing. This means a good Falco will not spam SHDL like an idiot. He'll throw in single lasors, empty short hops and back jumps galore. He'll NEVER ground laser. L
Mind games. Falco would never use lasers to 'hold Marth back.' The goal isn't to camp. The goal is to get an advantage and build into a combo. This isn't wolf.
Spacing with reflector is risky due to the lag being easily punishable with Marth's range.
That's like saying: "Marth's F-Smash is risky. It's quick, but if you miss, he succumbs to lag and becomes punishable." Obviously. Every move in this game is punishable, with some more punishable than others. Falco's reflector shouldn't be spammed and it should never be used carelessly. But if Marth is within hitting distance of you, you're within hitting distance of him and should take advantage of it. If he's spamming D-tilt, or he's Side-Bing or he's charging B or he's AAAing, or even charging a smash, these can all be stopped with the use of the reflector. The reflector isn't meant to be used when Marth is standing still. He'll shield it. But if Marth is under any sort of delay, he'll be hit every time.
A favorite of Marths involve D-tilt spamming or F-Air spamming. The former requires your reflector. The latter requires your lasor.
The window of opportunity to punish Marth's attacks is tiny at best
Falco's spot-dodge is rather beautiful, and his rolls are faster than most. And his B-Air is solid. And his dash attack is great at punishing techrolls. The 'window' of opprotunity isn't small here by any means.
Considering Falco is on defense, he merely needs to wait for Marth to attack and punish. Hits are traded. Short hops are exchanged and bottom line, spacing is never 100%. Falco will get closer to Marth, and Marth will get closer to Falco. The second that small sliver of: "Falcos Range < Marth's" is crossed (it's a rather small line), they're 100% on equal ground. They both have quick moves. Falco's short hopped B-Air hits Marth well. Falco's F-tilt is quick. Falco's D-smash can be built into almost anything. Falco's U-Smash can slide and hit at an unexpected position.
Range only matters if spacing is proper. This actually becomes a hinderance to a Marth who must maintain equal spacing to keep his advantage. Falco just has to move a tad bit closer and range becomes less significant.
The best strategy I've been able to use is shielding and grabbing/punishing
I'll point out we're talking about high level play...
And then of course there's the fact that Marth can gimp Falco with no trouble at all.
Believe it or not, but Falco's harder to gimp than you think. If he's predictable, sure, anyone can gimp Falco. A good Falco knows how to Phantasm safely and although Marth can certainly gimp Falco, Falco can gimp Marth. The only way Marth can gimp Falco involves Marth placing himself under risk. Typically, he jumps off the ledge with an F-Air trying to catch the Phantasm. If Marth is is even a milisecond off, Phantasm spike gives Falco a free stock. And considering Falco can phantasm instantly, can phantasm to the ledge or can wait in the air, DI forwards/backwards and then phantasm when it's safe, Marth has a lot of ground to cover. It's harder to gimp Falco than it looks. It's probable, but it's certainly not frequently.
Oh yeah, Marth is also the reason I incorporated grounded lasers into my game, since he can rush under short hopped ones unless you do them perfectly.
Falco should never ground laser...A good marth will punish it. Any opponent will punish it. A better, more viable option, is to back-jump single lasor. There's no way Marth can punish it, assuming Falco has enough room behind him.
