• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

"Masahiro Sakurai talks all about game balance in the new Smash Bros. games"

D

Deleted member

Guest
[From Nintendo Everything]

Masahiro Sakurai had a whole lot to say about game balance for the new Super Smash Bros. games in his weekly Famitsu column. You can find an overview of what Sakurai said in the magazine below.

“Now that Sunday’s day off is past, I’m currently working on the character adjustment for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. At the moment, Bowser is very strong. He’s really strong. Fans of Smash Bros. probably never saw him as too much of a strong character, but this time, his ability to knock others out is very strong!”

- Bowser’s Smash attacks, special attacks, and aerial attacks now have quite the ability to send opponents flying through the air
- The best part about this is that it feels great
- This great feeling is what Sakurai would like to focus on for the upcoming Smash Bros. games
- He’s putting more care into that part of the game than ever
- Sakurai says having strong attacks are also something that must be carefully balanced
- This is because it may feel unfair to opponents if they’re too overpowered
- In order to meet the right standards, Sakurai and the rest of the development team have been spending a lot of time adjusting stronger attacks to see what works best

“Doing things like simply ‘lowering the performance’ can make games lose its fun. Additionally, making a strong attack weaker can take away from the ‘good feeling’. By making adjustments that get rid of all advantages and disadvantages, it can turn a game into a mediocre one without any challenge.”

- According to Sakurai, this is something you can feel while playing other competitive games
- He compares it to the depth of working on an RPG title, where there’s a lot of things that are taken into consideration like obstacles and what players need to do in order to clear certain areas
- You can’t solve the problem by simply making enemies stronger

“Rather than directly weakening an attack’s advantageous parts, we’re putting effort into keeping them strong, while adding other weaknesses to them. Like giving the attacks punishable openings, or weakening the character’s mobility or recovery rate. We’re making comprehensive adjustments to characters, even for parts that might seem completely irrelevant.”

- Sakurai also talks about the difficulty in adjusting balances for things such as four player free-for-alls and 1-on-1 fights
- For these fights, their circumstances are completely different
- This can’t be helped at times, he says
- Ex: some attacks such as Captain Falcon’s “Falcon Punch” might work well when there’s more players, but might not ever hit during a 1-on-1 fight.

“The game balance of Super Smash Bros. Brawl started six years before its release, and it most likely goes back even further during its time of development, and it’s never been reformed even through the updates afterwards. We’re at a stage where we’d like to release the new title as soon as possible, and offer something more enjoyable than ever.”
Source


EDIT : Additionally, Sakurai, on the same Famitsu issue, resolves to complete SSB4 for 2014, a.k.a. Smash Bros.' series 15th Anniversary. ;)
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
Captain Falcon confirmed :troll:

I have noticed, based on this and that one Donkey Kong pic, Sakurai likes to use the word 'strong' in relation to characters. I suspect he doesn't necessarily mean 'physically powerful' by 'strong,' but rather 'competently competitive,' considering there's no way in hell anyone would doubt the former in Bowser, but would have every reason to doubt the latter based on Melee and Brawl.
 

Substitution

Deacon Blues
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
28,756
Location
Denial
NNID
MisterVideo
Sound like Bowser's getting buffed, he's needed it for a while.
I just hope we don't get another Meta Knight.
BTW: Release date around Smash 64's confirmed.
 

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
Even though we have already known that Sakurai would be giving emphasis on this aspect of the game, this is still very interesting information about the game.
 

Anomilus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
1,221
Location
The space between genius and madness
NNID
Hyperdon
No way one of Sakurai's favorite Smash characters aka "FALCON PAWNCH" and "The Knee" wasn't making a return.

Annoying, somebody on GameFAQs found this article and posted it only to point out the obvious, completely disregarding all of the good information provided... (yes I know, lol GFaqs, but I actually frequent that site more than here).

If there was any sort of official proof that Namco/Bandai is influencing the project positively, it's this. Not that Sakurai couldn't have gone this route, but some of the stuff stated actually mirrors sentiments I've often read among other fighting game communities. Namely trying to avoid nerfs when improving roster balance. I like that Sakurai actually said they're basically introducing better risk/reward opportunities instead of just weakening moves altogether.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,970
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
Ok, this made me hype much!

Awesome, he's ACTUALLY gonna balance characters out on 1 vs 1 fights! HE'S ACTUALLY GONNA DO IT!!

Today is a beatiful day :sadeyes:
 

NintendoKnight

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
1,735
Location
Climbing the mountain I made from a molehill
NNID
Nin-Knight
Now this is the stuff I like to hear.

I also like how he's putting emphasis on being "strong" and the game retaining that "good feeling," which are comments he's stated before.

He said the game feels good. Maybe this game produces a highly satisfactory level of Game Feel. Which I for sure can appreciate. When a game feels good, it feels good.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
Ok, this made me hype much!

Awesome, he's ACTUALLY gonna balance characters out on 1 vs 1 fights! HE'S ACTUALLY GONNA DO IT!!

Today is a beatiful day :sadeyes:
To be fair, he didn't actually say that. He said that balancing for 1v1 fights is tough because the circumstances are so radically different from FFAs (which is true), and that sometimes, they're so different that it makes balancing impossible. So, he'll do what he can, but some / many times, he just has to throw up his hands and say "well, screw it, it won't work in 1v1!"

That is certainly not the same as saying he's going to balance characters for 1v1s. He's balancing them for FFAs, and if he sees a glaring problem in 1v1s, he's going to try to fix it, except when that messes with his FFA balance, in which case, oh well, too bad for 1v1s.
 

Baskerville

That's a paddlin'
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
8,123
Location
London
NNID
RedGazelle7
3DS FC
4184-3881-5805
Now that he mentioned Falcon, I hope his Falcon Punch is an actual combo ender like it was in 64.
 

Big-Cat

Challenge accepted.
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
16,176
Location
Lousiana
NNID
KumaOso
3DS FC
1590-4853-0104
I read that as him balancing for both considering he brought up how Falcon Punch would be rarely used in 1v1.
 

Immortal

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
35
To be fair, he didn't actually say that. He said that balancing for 1v1 fights is tough because the circumstances are so radically different from FFAs (which is true), and that sometimes, they're so different that it makes balancing impossible. So, he'll do what he can, but some / many times, he just has to throw up his hands and say "well, screw it, it won't work in 1v1!"

That is certainly not the same as saying he's going to balance characters for 1v1s. He's balancing them for FFAs, and if he sees a glaring problem in 1v1s, he's going to try to fix it, except when that messes with his FFA balance, in which case, oh well, too bad for 1v1s.
He actually doesn't say that 1v1s or FFAs are a higher priority. I think he was just explaining the difficulty of making individual moves like Falcon Punch viable in both styles of play.
 

Renji64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
1,988
Location
Jacksonville FL
I would like to see some mario tweaks like getting rid of the fludd xd but this seems like good news this game might appeal to me after depending how fast it is and if it has combos.
 

Tree Cat

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
32
The lack of balance patches mentioned in this interview makes me scared
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
He actually doesn't say that 1v1s or FFAs are a higher priority. I think he was just explaining the difficulty of making individual moves like Falcon Punch viable in both styles of play.
I'm replying to this, but it's also directed at KumaOso.

He does pretty explicitly say that FFAs are the priority, if you read the Falcon Punch statement correctly. He says, and I quote, "some attacks such as Captain Falcon’s “Falcon Punch” might work well when there’s more players, but might not ever hit during a 1-on-1 fight", and "this can't be helped, at times". Now, ask yourself: if FFA is NOT a priority over 1v1, then how would you, as a designer, respond to a completely useless attack? An attack that you don't ever really expect to hit? You'd do something about it, make it more able to hit, maybe make it a combo ender, as FalchionX7 said.

However, if FFA is the priority, and the attack is working fine in FFA (hitting with acceptable frequency and having the desired effect), and it's not working in 1v1, AND changing the attack in a way to make it viable in 1v1 will, necessarily, change the FFA balance, then you don't change the attack to make it more viable in 1v1, chalking it up to an instance that "can't be helped". Because Sakurai explicitly says that there are attacks (at least, possibly entire characters, like ICs) that can be balanced for FFA but not for 1v1, he is explicitly saying that FFA balance is the priority. Otherwise, he would have said that there are some attacks that work in FFA that are useless in 1v1 AND some attacks in 1v1 that are perfect, but underpowered in FFA.

Because he didn't mention neglecting to buff underpowered moves in FFA because "sometimes it can't be helped", we have no reason to think that FFA balance is not a priority over 1v1 balance. Hence, 1v1 balance is not the priority, nor is it equally important. QED.
 

pelotaz0

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
32
Location
Madrid
Lol I think Bowser will get buffed and nerfed before the release and he will be the same low tier than always
6 years of balance for Brawl... that means a lot about the balance capability of these people
 

Mr.Showtime

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
597
Location
FL
He actually doesn't say that 1v1s or FFAs are a higher priority. I think he was just explaining the difficulty of making individual moves like Falcon Punch viable in both styles of play.
He just reads what he wants to hear. Always will. xD

Never once did he specifically say "FFA has a higher priority than 1v1." Stop taking assumptions and trying to read between the lines. Falcon Punch in general is a hard move to land, and it has been throughout the smash series, even with an FFA match. I mean lower-skilled players are more likely to get hit by it, but I've seen a few competitive games where they pulled a Falcon Punch without a combo. Its more of an unexpected attack rather than their basic bread and butter combos.
 

Hydde

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2006
Messages
1,829
Location
Panama(Central america)
NNID
Rahrthur
Lol I think Bowser will get buffed and nerfed before the release and he will be the same low tier than always
6 years of balance for Brawl... that means a lot about the balance capability of these people
Exactly,

I think that by now, all of us must be fully aware that Sakurai cant balance for **** if left alone. Im just crossing fingers that the namco guys are smacking his head with a bat everytime he does sometime stupid like nerfing capt falcon and samus to the ground.

Ill definitely not buy the WiiU until i play and feel the game myself. Ill NOT commit my money and be totally let down like last time.

At least, this time he is willing to accept some changes and not be the stubborn ****** he was with when doing Brawl.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
I'm quite happy to see Bowser getting all that attention. Hopefully he turns out as good as the article makes it sound.

I hope he takes time talking about the Hyrule Tier next.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
He just reads what he wants to hear. Always will. xD

Never once did he specifically say "FFA has a higher priority than 1v1." Stop taking assumptions and trying to read between the lines. Falcon Punch in general is a hard move to land, and it has been throughout the smash series, even with an FFA match. I mean lower-skilled players are more likely to get hit by it, but I've seen a few competitive games where they pulled a Falcon Punch without a combo. Its more of an unexpected attack rather than their basic bread and butter combos.
Troll harder. I think it's hilarious that you think I want Sakurai to prioritize FFA over 1v1. That's ridiculous. But, then again, it's obvious you didn't read my previous post before this one before spouting off your mouth.
 

PadWarrior

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
809
NNID
Smasboards suck
Did you see his final line? We’re at a stage where we’d like to release the new title as soon as possible, and offer something more enjoyable than ever.” I wonder how close they are to going gold.
 

PlayerXIII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
209
NNID
ShailsPT
3DS FC
3652-1682-9410
I like to think they have already gone gold and are just adding the final touches (balancing) to make it better than gold. I am really pumped for this game, moreso now that I have read this. Lord Sakurai, please make the balancing as good as you are describing you want to do...
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Glad to hear all of these buffs Bowser got. It actually gets me more excited to play as him!

Hopefully the 1v1 battles will be balanced enough when the game is finally released. Let's just hope that there won't be another Meta Knight scenario…
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
I like to think they have already gone gold and are just adding the final touches (balancing) to make it better than gold. I am really pumped for this game, moreso now that I have read this. Lord Sakurai, please make the balancing as good as you are describing you want to do...
I don't think that means what you think it means. :p "Going gold" means "to begin printing copies for distribution", so if a game has "gone gold", you can't very well make changes to it without introducing day 1 DLC / patches. It doesn't have to do with the quality of the product.
 

MasterOfKnees

Space Pirate
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
8,579
Location
Denmark
NNID
KneeMaster
Switch FC
SW-6310-1174-0352
“Now that Sunday’s day off is past, I’m currently working on the character adjustment for Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U.”
I knew he wasn't taking a break! Give us those pictures! :mad:

Either way, this is all good news, he finally sees balancing in a different and much better light.
 

PlayerXIII

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
209
NNID
ShailsPT
3DS FC
3652-1682-9410
I don't think that means what you think it means. :p "Going gold" means "to begin printing copies for distribution", so if a game has "gone gold", you can't very well make changes to it without introducing day 1 DLC / patches. It doesn't have to do with the quality of the product.
I know the meaning of going gold :p I don't know how to explain it in english, but I just took use of the phrase "going gold" that was used in the meaning you meant and used it with another meaning. I don't know if it's playing with words or not, damn me for not having english as a native language, my life would be so much easier...
 

The Real Gamer

Smash Hero
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
9,166
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
3DS FC
3437-3797-6559
Meh this article is all talk... I think some people in here are forgetting that this is the same man who developed Melee and Brawl... 2 separate smash games with entirely different mechanics that shared 1 major thing in common: they both featured very unbalanced rosters for their own personal reasons. Lucky the unbalanced roster isn't nearly as relevant in Melee since the top 7-8 characters are all very entertaining to watch and dynamic/deep enough to play a lot differently at a high level. I can't say the same for Brawl (other than a select few like Salem's ZSS or Diddy's banana shenanigans).

When I first heard the Namco-Bandai team would be helping out this time around I HOPED AND PRAYED they would take the reins in terms of balancing issues, but for whatever reason it seems as though Sakurai is in charge of this once again and based on his track record I'm not happy about this in the slightest.

Not trying to come off as a Sakurai pessimist or anything. I have faith that he's going to prove us another solid roster, I have faith that he's going to provide us with some solid online play this time around, and I even have faith that he can create a game that can mend the gap between Brawl/Melee players. I just don't have faith in him in terms of providing us with a balanced roster.

I guess time will tell....
 
Top Bottom