Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Pink Reaper]

PP has always been good at that matchup, moreso then pretty much any Falco.

He is the 2010 Forward.

None Shall Pass, I'm not sure how you think Roy has terrible spacing if his sword is basically the same in length compared to Marth's and he can dash dance camp just as good as Marth lol.

Roy is bad since he sucks at racking up damage (only a few moves actually lead into anything and it's character dependent), struggles to get the kill most of the time (he can only combo into a KOing move at certain %s on certain characters), and crouch canceling completely destroys the one good setup he has (dtilt).

Roy's spacing is terrible, most of his range is just the paper fan part of his sword that's CCable till like, 9 million%(im estimating here) He also cant Dash Dance camp as well as marth since he doesnt have as many options out of DD, it's basically just his DED.

 

[NJzFinest]

Roy's spacing is terrible, most of his range is just the paper fan

Actually it's not, the paper part is actually insanely small, like Marth's "sex" part. Sure, this means that you'll be aiming to not tipper your opponent, but we have all seen Marth players display good spacing without tipping even once. They simply have big swords lol. The spacing in a Marth not sweetspotting and a Roy sweetspotting mirror one another. Difference is that one can actually do stuff after landing a hit almost always.

He also cant Dash Dance camp as well as marth since he doesnt have as many options out of DD, it's basically just his DED.

"dash dance to forward b > most of bottom tier."

Roy is bad, but Pichu and w/e are worse.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Not really, pretty much everything in Bottom tier outside of Pichu has something that can trade with it or beat it and put them at an advantageous position.

Edit: Delibird da bess.

 

[x After Dawn x]

the sour spot on roy's blade is actually on the tipper and the sweet spot is actually closer to the hilt, in contrast to marth's setup

sure the blade has decent range but roy isn't set up to play like marth (under most circumstances, but notice how his tipper still has ******** trajectories like his upsmash and dair), and you can't really take advantage of the tipper this way so you have to play much closer

that being said, roy wouldn't be nearly as low as he is now if he could just ****ing kill something without having to land a miraculous forward smash

 

[NJzFinest]

Psh Bowser, Ness, and Yoshi have nothing on DED.

I'll give you GnW, Mew2, and maybeeeee Kirby.

Add in Pichu to the first mentioned and boom, > most of bottom tier :D

And yes, Delibird is pretty ballin.

Btw, I feel really weird talking about Roy like this. At least 30% of my total post count is made up of flaming about how useless he is in Roy forums, back when kids didn't know better. Now I kinda miss 5150, Lordknight, and RagnarokTexas

 

[KAOSTAR]

edit:yoshi ***** DED

Yea I only know roy from m2s perspective, lets just say since m2 doesnt have a god awful shield you only have to worry about DED, and thats only if it hits. Its E Z mode to block and pretty punishable like 37% of the time.

Roys range is stupid. What good does it do to have the strongest part of your blade at the ****ing handle. I would rather have ****ing iron fists or something.

IMO based mainly on MUs:
the few, the proud
YL
Zelda
M2

GARB
Roy
GW
yoshi
bowser
ness
Pichu
Kirby

based on tourney
M2
zelda
YL

who cares

 

[Druggedfox]

The only reason zelda does any good in tourney is because people don't know how to pick fox and press the "b" button a lot.

 

[Korrupshen]

goooooo yoshi!

Spread the love

 

[KAOSTAR]

The only reason zelda does any good in tourney is because people don't know how to pick fox and press the "b" button a lot.

that being said. she still does aight for a piece of **** character. lol

 

[GOD!]

Roy's spacing is terrible, most of his range is just the paper fan part of his sword that's CCable till like, 9 million%(im estimating here) He also cant Dash Dance camp as well as marth since he doesnt have as many options out of DD, it's basically just his DED.

You are incredibly dumb. Like whoa... just read your post again. I mean, come on.

Also at falco vs falcon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NywocihQdos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sbn-dX17a8

It's not the character. It's the player.

 

[Pink Reaper]

You are incredibly dumb. Like whoa... just read your post again. I mean, come on.

You're right, i should, maybe you know something I dont.

Also at falco vs falcon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NywocihQdos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sbn-dX17a8

It's not the character. It's the player.

No, never mind, i guess not.

 

[GOD!]

Well it just shows you understand the concept of spacing about as well as my tag understands the US Tax Code.

 

[x After Dawn x]

i don't see what was wrong with his post...everything he said was pretty valid

another thing that you could say is that marth's grab and dash speeds are both better than roy's. not a huge difference because roy's aren't bad to begin with but yeah.

 

[GOD!]

Roy's spacing is terrible, most of his range is just the paper fan part of his sword that's CCable till like, 9 million%(im estimating here) He also cant Dash Dance camp as well as marth since he doesnt have as many options out of DD, it's basically just his DED.

Ok.

It's like saying

-Falcon ***** so hard. He grabs you and just kills you, he just has to make one prediction and knee, and it's over. Even if he just hits you with a stomp, you get auto-kneed. He's so fast and his dash dance is soooo fast.. Broken.

-Fox is so terrible. He's like the fourth lightest character and dies soooo earlier. Everyone knows how to fight and combo him, he falls fast and gets combo ***** by everybody. SDI his drill and theres nothing that you can't CC. If he gets shined by falco or grabbed by marth, it's either 60% and offstage or a stock. He's like a nerfed version of falco. Gay.

Roy's spacing isn't bad, you just are making excuses for a character when everything you mention is only limiting if you do it as you say. You don't have to tipper people that are crouching, it's your decision.... His "spacing" isn't bad.. You can say his range is bad, or maybe his Non-CC range is bad.. You just sound like you're johning for some character that has limited options; when every character does. Just play the game with what tools you have. He does have a good combo game using things like the weak part of his sword, and falls faster than marth, so you can control him more easily that way.

Well falco cant dash dance camp as well as marth but he uses other stuff. Like, your looking at him like an inferior marth, and in a way he is. But if you don't think about him like that, and instead as a character with different combos, strengths, weaknesses, and a different metagame, then you will never say that he has bad spacing.

That's all.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Roys tipper range is useless. PinkREaper is being realistic.

Yes, roy technically has range, but in SSBM his range is not a viable asset. Being able to hit ppl with the force of an air filled pillow isnt giving him any MU wins lol.

his grab range is pretty much the only useful thing that roy has. You might as well cut off half of his sword and play with that.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Ok.

It's like saying

-Falcon ***** so hard. He grabs you and just kills you, he just has to make one prediction and knee, and it's over. Even if he just hits you with a stomp, you get auto-kneed. He's so fast and his dash dance is soooo fast.. Broken.

-Fox is so terrible. He's like the fourth lightest character and dies soooo earlier. Everyone knows how to fight and combo him, he falls fast and gets combo ***** by everybody. SDI his drill and theres nothing that you can't CC. If he gets shined by falco or grabbed by marth, it's either 60% and offstage or a stock. He's like a nerfed version of falco. Gay.

Roy's spacing isn't bad, you just are making excuses for a character when everything you mention is only limiting if you do it as you say. You don't have to tipper people that are crouching, it's your decision.... His "spacing" isn't bad.. You can say his range is bad, or maybe his Non-CC range is bad.. You just sound like you're johning for some character that has limited options; when every character does. Just play the game with what tools you have. He does have a good combo game using things like the weak part of his sword, and falls faster than marth, so you can control him more easily that way.

Well falco cant dash dance camp as well as marth but he uses other stuff. Like, your looking at him like an inferior marth, and in a way he is. But if you don't think about him like that, and instead as a character with different combos, strengths, weaknesses, and a different metagame, then you will never say that he has bad spacing.

That's all.

buddy

your analogy fails because the amount of advantages a character like fox has far surpasses his weaknesses, and i hope you realize falcon is a high tier character and really isn't THAT BAD compared to most characters in the game.

he's highlighting the reasons why roy is a low tier character, aka his weaknesses. he's not saying his spacing is bad, he's saying the awkwardness that his sword is set up puts him in a position where, unlike marth where optimal spacing is as far away from the person as possible while still hitting them (ie: tipper), roy's is the opposite and that means you have to get super close, which isn't too good for him. and i hope you realize he isn't "johning for that character" as he doesn't even play roy, he's trying to give some kind of argument.

you can go ahead and list all the reasons why roy is good, but at the end of the day that's not getting him anywhere past low tier.

p.s. falling faster isn't really an advantage for roy- it just means he's more combo food and his flimsy paper fan of a sword's uairs can't keep up as well as marth's. and like i said earlier, a flimsy sword might seem like a good thing to you but it doesn't help when the opponent is at a billion percent and you can't kill them

 

[Pink Reaper]

Actually against some characters, notably Falcon, Roy's Uair basically combos forever since the dumb paper fan hit on it basically never increases in knockback no matter how much % you get lol.

 

[x After Dawn x]

i think falcon's probably one of the few exceptions though, marth's vertical comboing is sometimes really awkward against falcon

the rest of those characters, doesn't matter because they're so much worse than marth already is that they're gonna lose anyway

 

[GOD!]

First, it wasn't an analogy. An analogy is a comparison of two unlike things; I'm saying that the three paragraphs about roy, fox, and falcon are the exact same thing.

You're so focused on the tier list, and you seem to draw a characters tools from their placement on the tier list and not the reverse. The tier list is some weird combination of tournament placing and the MBR's opinion at the time, and it is anything but a definitive reference of character skill.

Have you seen Armada's kirby? Cosmo's Zelda? DJN's pichu and bowser? Axe's Pikachu? If you look at Axe vs. Shiz set in Apex, Axe beats Shiz's fox and falco. But what about the tier list? Doesn't it matter? No, the tier list tries to gauge character strength and weakness. Sometimes it succeeds and sometimes it fails. We honestly don't know which character is the best or worst with an absolute degree of certainty.

Once again, you keep looking at roy as an inferior version of marth. That's not what is metagame is.

You can't just declare that falling fast isn't good for roy. It's part of his character, it can be good or bad. You're too caught up in the tier list, and not in the tools of each character. I don't expect you to understand. Unless you've played axe or some good low tier, you will never understand.

 

[Pink Reaper]

This message is hidden because GOD! is on your ignore list.

Man, this thread just got a whole lot smarter. After Dawn, change your avatar back to sheik, i never realize it's you when i see ash.

 

[NJzFinest]

I agree with Reaper, change it back to Sheik please.

 

[GOD!]

This message is hidden because GOD! is on your ignore list.

Man, this thread just got a whole lot smarter. After Dawn, change your avatar back to sheik, i never realize it's you when i see ash.

Once again, idiocy refuses logic. In Parents, girls, and on SWF.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I'm pretty should pichu's shield beats ded he has a pretty good sheild like one of the best.

also roy's sourspot is like a 1/3 of his sword and all his attacks have a hair less range than marth's i've sat down and tested for most his moves. however his B has no sourspot and isn't as easy to CC so you have a move with full range to rack up damage.

grabs=good.

everyone can argee roy is really bad but trust me roy isn't nearly as terrible as he seems. I've once picked sheik held down the C-stick to auto CC(bit weaker than normal CC but it's automatic and you CAN DD and grab and junk at the same time) so i'd run around throw a few needles then run up and chain throw him or start comboing him however after had a decet amount of percent on me I ended up getting punished get CCing everything. SUre I was sandbagging laughing at him but I still lost 2 stocks and know you can't just CC every single move even if it's fun.

you CC everything at 0% I guess then you can't CC f-smash then it moves on. but in truth you can CC most moves at 0% for any chartcer.

d-tilt upair f-smash in roy dittos is fun. just drop the CC rap thing because it's a bad tactic to base your whole game off of of even most it does stop him from ever using some moves.

also on the defense for stopping approachs and junk all of roy's range counts i'm pretty sure unless it's like WD d-smash d-tilt should work I guess but not all it's range would be useful.

also I thought roy has one of those foam swords made by like that place that starts with N and makes fake guns and junk.

 

[Divinokage]

Pichu's shield, one of the best? You gotta be kidding me.. He has one of the worst shields in the game.

 

[rhan]

You ******* should just follow the lead of all the geniuses here on SWF and ignore ICG... -_-

Arguing with him is like arguing with a mule.

It's ****ing stupid.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Pichu's shield, one of the best? You gotta be kidding me.. He has one of the worst shields in the game.

explain. pichu's sheild covers him better than the following charcters:Dr. Mario, Mario, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, ice climbers, roy, marth, DK, peach, samus, gannon and falcon.

and is tied with puff.

Shield Size List - shows the order of the character's shields, from biggest to smallest (this does NOT compare Shield Size to Body Size RATIOS, just Shield Size, and some of the rankings near the middle and bottom are EXTREMELY close, and I rechecked my work A LOT, especially the big Z shield on Giant Melee and sometimes even with Super Mushrooms to check my work over and over and over again, so it's the best I could possibly do, which is obviously the best known list to go by)

1) Bowser (by far)
2) DK
3-5) Ganondorf / Mewtwo / Sheik
6) Zelda
7) Captain Falcon
8-9) Link / Samus
10-12) Falco / Fox / Ness
13-14) Kirby / Peach
15-16) Luigi / Marth
17) Roy
18-20) Ice Climbers / Jigglypuff / Pichu
21-22) Dr. Mario / Mario
23) Young Link
24) Mr. Game & Watch
25) Pikachu

*Yoshi's Egg Shield is an oval shape, doesn't shrink in size as time goes on, and can't become bigger by holding R/L lightly or by pressing Z (although you can increase the lasting time by holding Z, which will also reduce your traction by doing so) so that's why it can't be put into my list.

maybe if you're talking about his out of sheild grab you have something worth saying. but i'm pretty sure WD oos to something can help fix that I know axe does and makes it at least useful.

and useful is the word wanted here hit by attack and can punish by via WD oos not puff bair serious here man. I don't know I use sheild SDI a lot.

You ******* should just follow the lead of all the geniuses here on SWF and ignore ICG... -_-

Arguing with him is like arguing with a mule.

It's ****ing stupid.

this right here I won't argue about something unless I somewhat understand it and then i'll research it. And if you win you still won't ever be happy about it. also XD at you. if I don't understand something shouldn't I be called out? kage called me out on the sheild thing. I called him out for how he addressed the sheild thing. i'll admit pichu's OOs game isn't good but just good enough to punish people without great sheild pressure.

Also to be fair if I don't understand something or someone esle doesn't shouldn't you try to help teach them more about the topic at hand with is normally smash which what the site is about? leads to the question wtf are you doing?










Also something I dislike is how you see people but then again i'm just wierd like that. I see people differently than you or most people. If I just got into a fight with you over you disrespecting me 20 minutes ago I have no problem with you even if you whipped my a** I don't judge people because there are so many factors that go into now that I may or may not understand that it's ******** to base every thing esle I do to them based on a few small memories and believe them to be dumb or wise. or even cruel. I teach people how they should be treated that sec. and without insults to them of any kind.

however I also see my friends/family this way and it's extremely hard to love/hate. so I think people should see stranges or rarely seen people like that. it would reduce overall hate

 

[Divinokage]

explain. pichu's sheild covers him better than the following charcters:Dr. Mario, Mario, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, ice climbers, roy, marth, DK, peach, samus, gannon and falcon.

and is tied with puff.

Oh really? I can garantee you nearly every move Ganon has will go through Pichu's shield.. If I can go through Roy's shield all the time then Pichu is much easier.. his shield itself is nothing. Remember I'm the one who put shield stabbing in the metagame. =) I can do it over and over. When you play someone that can do that, you 2nd guess yourself if you should shield.. and so, I can garantee you I will land lots of hits through Pichu's shield.. i have done it plenty of times.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Oh really? I can garantee you nearly every move Ganon has will go through Pichu's shield.. If I can go through Roy's shield all the time then Pichu is much easier..

why? pichu's sheild covers himself better than roy's sheild does I don't understand your reasoning. you're saying it's easy to sheild stab someone with worse sheild coverage and pichu will be easier?

also to be fair you shield stab near the bottom or the reverse direction of their sheild di if your hitbox hits the sheild then the sheild takes the damage. pichu is a small target and the sheild is centered around the middle of his head. that's perf3ect level for gannon's jab, and where most air moves hit so you'd be attacking at the center. and i'd sheild di towards the attacker out of habit normally so it really covers him well.

but please for the love of God explain what you meant from above. I said pichu's sheild covers herself better than roy.

 

[Divinokage]

why? pichu's sheild covers himself better than roy's sheild does I don't understand your reasoning. you're saying it's easy to sheild stab someone with worse sheild coverage and pichu will be easier?

also to be fair you shield stab near the bottom or the reverse direction of their sheild di if your hitbox hits the sheild then the sheild takes the damage. pichu is a small target and the sheild is centered around the middle of his head. that's perf3ect level for gannon's jab, and where most air moves hit so you'd be attacking at the center. and i'd sheild di towards the attacker out of habit normally so it really covers him well.

but please for the love of God explain what you meant from above. I said pichu's sheild covers herself better than roy.

Why would I be attacking where the shield is... Shield stabbing = attacking where the shield is not.. is it also = Using hitboxes to hit the opponent accurately. Mastering that allows you to space yourself in a way where you can do that all the time. You are saying Pichu's shield covers better than Roy.. but your definition of better is so little that it makes pretty much no difference. Just Ganon's Fair can shield stab Pichu even after you shield one hit... it's gonna be so easy to do after, even before. Bair ftw too. It's not just mindless attacks.. if I see you shield, then my tactic is to hit you where the shield is not and if there's too much shield then I can grab.

 

[Druggedfox]

Marth shield pokes my almost full shield with his uncharged neutral b.

Falco can't shield poke marth with a downsmash when his shield only covers his stomach.

Hitboxes, how do they work.

Kage?

 

[KAOSTAR]

All I know is that m2 is mad good at shield poking a platformed foe wit that neutral air. Just cover that body up lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Low tiers are dumb talk about real characters.

 

[KAOSTAR]

SMH.

theres nothing to talk about unless ur trying to finish this MU chart...like for real

 

[Sethlon]

I dont know.. man Ganon/Roy is as bad as Ganon/Pichu. =P There's no way in hell a Ganon will lose to Roy. Sethlon got 3-4 stocked by me every single time. lol.

In Roy's defense, I have beaten many ganons before. I took down the texas ganons all the time back in the day, got a ganon or two in tourney at Genesis and won, and I would have beaten Hella's at WCSL if it wasn't for his sick comeback. You just **** me for some reason lol

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

full pichu pichu covers his full body I believe where roy's leaves his feet open. I watched you fight a few people with the same sheild size puff/ice climbers. from the matches I saw you got puished more offen then you sheild stabbed. pichu's body=smaller once this wasn't comparing gannon it was comparing roy's ded.

I like how you look at the little things.

 

[Divinokage]

full pichu pichu covers his full body I believe where roy's leaves his feet open. I watched you fight a few people with the same sheild size puff/ice climbers. from the matches I saw you got puished more offen then you sheild stabbed. pichu's body=smaller once this wasn't comparing gannon it was comparing roy's ded.

I like how you look at the little things.

I can do shield stabbing with every character now if I want. =)

DruggedFox, to me I just look how the move itself is.. and then I can adjust into where I can hit the opponent where their shield isn't. Like Ganon's Fair.. I managed to shield stab someone at the end frames of the fair when I overshot it basically in their shield, however it still hit him in the backside of their feet.. which was hilarious. =P

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Kage what do you do when you mess up and let someone inside your zone?

edit- do you just put your controller down?

 

[x After Dawn x]

This message is hidden because GOD! is on your ignore list.

Man, this thread just got a whole lot smarter. After Dawn, change your avatar back to sheik, i never realize it's you when i see ash.

I agree with Reaper, change it back to Sheik please.

ash isn't top tier?!

back to sheik it is

 

[rhan]

Gary is the only top tier Pokemon Trainer.

 

[NJzFinest]

Low tiers are dumb talk about real characters.

^This

+ Ganon isn't real.

ash isn't top tier?!

back to sheik it is

Thxxx