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- Thread starter t3h Icy
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A Pimp Named Slickback
Smash Lord
have fun grabbing sheik with ganon's slow and small grab brah
or at least try to
or at least try to
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Hmm I can do it with proper mindgames. =P If the Sheik is not M2k, I can probably beat them. =P
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
zelda:fox
4:6
4:6
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Hi, I exist. Thanks.
Ganon is easier than Marth for Sheik, but not by much. So whatever Marth is, Ganon should be about the same.
It's a way to pass the time when I'm bored and have nothing productive I feel like doing.
And also on occasion someone posts something I'm genuinely interested in discussing so I keep poking my head in here.
I'm definitely going to need you to explain this one to me.
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
i pooped on kels and tink 2nite!!!! looooooool. and i can takem atches from M2k fox but his sheik and marth **** me for days
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Cool.
Her CG on space animals and Falcon is really hard when they DI behind you. I can only get it like half the time :/
edit: Will there be vids coming? :D
Her CG on space animals and Falcon is really hard when they DI behind you. I can only get it like half the time :/
edit: Will there be vids coming? :D
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Cosmo, what answers does Zelda have against smart laser and dash dance camping?
VGmasta
Smash Lord
I'll put my opinion in attempt to spark discussion. It's been said Marth vs. Ganon to be even for quite sometime now, but I can never confer with it.
How is Ganon even in the matchup where Marth has the same attack range, but then has faster attack speed, better attacking animations that allow Marth to be harder to punish? Marth has good combos. How about Marth's broken dancedash? And Marth has amazing edgeguarding on Ganon's slow@ss recovery.
I don't see where Ganon beats Marth on any aspect of the matchup other than attack power maybe.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Ganon is a big black dude.
Marth is a small little japanese dude.
The difference is OBVIOUS. Even a blind man can tell you Ganon will ****.
Marth is a small little japanese dude.
The difference is OBVIOUS. Even a blind man can tell you Ganon will ****.
Pi
Smash Hero
Shield pokes
If the marth has to shield it's not good, if the ganon gets any frontal attack on marth's shield, the marth is forced to go defensive, wavedashing away is probably not safe, rolling away is probably safe, but covers a lot of distance, and being forced to the edge doesn't allow much room for the marth to space attacks.
Getting back behind ganon is also a problem, going above meets the upair, and obviously approaching a ganon has it's own difficulties, especially if your intention is to get behind him.
And yea, a couple of attacks on marths shield means the next one is probably going to hit
otg
Smash Master
Ganon just punishes harder off of hits and has hitbox's that stay out for longer while most of Marth's moves are fast and have some cooldown time where he is vulnerable. I do agree that Marth > Ganon for the most part tho.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Serious time.
Marth > Ganon.
But Ganon can punish Marth pretty hard if he screws up which is why Ganon doesn't lose completely in this match up.
Marth > Ganon.
But Ganon can punish Marth pretty hard if he screws up which is why Ganon doesn't lose completely in this match up.
A Pimp Named Slickback
Smash Lord
marth punishes extremely hard
as soon as marth combos ganon off the stage ganon dies
as soon as marth combos ganon off the stage ganon dies
VGmasta
Smash Lord
And I forgot to mention in my post earlier Marth's d-tilt seems pretty effective. Doesn't that limit Ganon's options out of shield, especially when he's on the edge?!
BTW, I feel like the match up is 60:40 in Marth's favor.
BTW, I feel like the match up is 60:40 in Marth's favor.
Pi
Smash Hero
Dtilt limits a lot of characters options when they are shielding near the edge...
I usually just light shield and fall off to grab the ledge, I have more options there >.>
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
patience .
TheZhuKeeper
Smash Champion
I feel like Zelda should be more worried about a Fox that is aggressive / has good shield pressure specifically. Don't know the matchup though.
Archangel
Smash Hero
Ganon vs Marth to me is close on some stages not on others. I personally don't like Yoshi's vs Ganon because it feels like i'm in constant danger lol.
Yoshi's 45-55 Ganon(IMO)
FD 60-40 Marth
DL64 55-45 Marth
Battlefield 50-50
FoD 60-40 Marth
Yoshi's 45-55 Ganon(IMO)
FD 60-40 Marth
DL64 55-45 Marth
Battlefield 50-50
FoD 60-40 Marth
ivootjes(nr18)
Smash Lord
i just checked this for the first time, but how in hell is fox>puff, but fox=samus? o_0
Laijin
Smash Hero
That list is all sorts of weird.
Mahone
Smash Champion
Cuz fox beats jiggs and has an even matchup with samus.
Im confused as to why this is such a rediculous idea.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Ha everyone's talking about marth's combos/edgeguarding etc, vs ganon's power and range and all that...
No one has mentioned that marth's dashdance + grab game by itself is better than several characters in their entirety
Real talk though, marth's grab range actually allows him to relatively safely punish whiffed aerials ganon is using to space. Often characters/players try to punish a ganon who's spacing his aerials, trying to trick you, and often they just get jabbed underestimating the lag on his aerials... marth on the other hand actually has the ability to stay outside the jab range and get free grabs... fthrow and dthrow both lead to relatively easy tech chases, and at the right damages upthrow leads to nasty comboing.
This aspect of marth's game actually severely limits some of ganons standard spacing strategies; a good marth can force ganon out of his comfort zone far more than the reverse (as marth's standard game should just be DD anyway).
Just a thought no one seemed to bring up
No one has mentioned that marth's dashdance + grab game by itself is better than several characters in their entirety
Real talk though, marth's grab range actually allows him to relatively safely punish whiffed aerials ganon is using to space. Often characters/players try to punish a ganon who's spacing his aerials, trying to trick you, and often they just get jabbed underestimating the lag on his aerials... marth on the other hand actually has the ability to stay outside the jab range and get free grabs... fthrow and dthrow both lead to relatively easy tech chases, and at the right damages upthrow leads to nasty comboing.
This aspect of marth's game actually severely limits some of ganons standard spacing strategies; a good marth can force ganon out of his comfort zone far more than the reverse (as marth's standard game should just be DD anyway).
Just a thought no one seemed to bring up
Merkuri
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,860
I think Jigs vs Peach is 60:40 in Jigs favor.
What it comes down to is that
Overall Jigs aerials beats Peach even if not significantly.
Peach can be edge guarded while Jigs cannot.
Peach has no great or even good Punish for rest.
Anyone agree?
What it comes down to is that
Overall Jigs aerials beats Peach even if not significantly.
Peach can be edge guarded while Jigs cannot.
Peach has no great or even good Punish for rest.
Anyone agree?
Pi
Smash Hero
I'm unsure of how reliable DD camping would net you grabs vs. ganon's shffl'd aerials into jabs...that window is pretty dang small. Also ganon's waveland-> stuff covers quite a bit of distance.Ha everyone's talking about marth's combos/edgeguarding etc, vs ganon's power and range and all that...
No one has mentioned that marth's dashdance + grab game by itself is better than several characters in their entirety
Real talk though, marth's grab range actually allows him to relatively safely punish whiffed aerials ganon is using to space. Often characters/players try to punish a ganon who's spacing his aerials, trying to trick you, and often they just get jabbed underestimating the lag on his aerials... marth on the other hand actually has the ability to stay outside the jab range and get free grabs... fthrow and dthrow both lead to relatively easy tech chases, and at the right damages upthrow leads to nasty comboing.
This aspect of marth's game actually severely limits some of ganons standard spacing strategies; a good marth can force ganon out of his comfort zone far more than the reverse (as marth's standard game should just be DD anyway).
Just a thought no one seemed to bring up
samus is a good character ._. (not to say puff isn't, but I feel like people keep thinking she's garbage)
peach's options while jiggs is asleep isnt that bad Turnip to upsmash kills at like 45-50% and turnip to down smash deals like 35%
BigWenz
Smash Ace
so did that new tier list that i heard was in the makings come out yet?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Okay guys, I'll bite.
You're never getting a new tier list.
You're never getting a new tier list.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Didn't you hear the SBR? That was the FINAL tier list. Marth is CLEARLY better than everyone else in the game besides Fox
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
It's true.
Marth is the best character.
Mango says so.
Marth is the best character.
Mango says so.
Laijin
Smash Hero
If Mango says it then it must be true
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
@Kniht... it's true, aerial --> jab is a small window. At the same time, most good players (ESPECIALLY marth's) are used to DD and grabbing fox before he can even shine... I mean, dair/nair--> shine is an even smaller window, and any good marth player should have that down.
That said, I feel like DD grab is fairly reliable as far as avoiding the aerials and jabs. Though, I do agree about the wavelanding stuff; that **** goes far, and is great in general.
Mango should pick up marth and win Pound V, with a bracket of only sheik/puff/falcon =D
That said, I feel like DD grab is fairly reliable as far as avoiding the aerials and jabs. Though, I do agree about the wavelanding stuff; that **** goes far, and is great in general.
Mango should pick up marth and win Pound V, with a bracket of only sheik/puff/falcon =D
It's pretty much the same as the Samus v Falco matchup except Fox has better kill options and a ****ty gun.
I think that matchup rating is correct. And the top three statements.
Only character that has no good options to punish Jiggs for missing a rest is either Ness or Pichu. Every other character can punish that **** so hard.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
@rhan-Id say m2 at low to mid percents doesnt have anything special to punish rests. Downsmash isnt that strong and upsmash is aight. fsmash is garb. if they arent in upthrow kill percentage you gotta make something up. I guess pummel to downthrow to fair but still not ****.
Pichu with a full charged fsmash or a charged skullbash isnt ****?????? pk flash or full charged bat with ness isnt strong.
I actually dont recall the bat strength. ness is trash.
Pichu with a full charged fsmash or a charged skullbash isnt ****?????? pk flash or full charged bat with ness isnt strong.
I actually dont recall the bat strength. ness is trash.
Make me feel stupid one more 'gain....
lmao Pichu's fully charged F-smash is avoidable. Can DI out of it before the final blow (which is the strongest). Ness' smashes suuuuck.. but can PK flash even connect if you catch the Jiggs fail the rest instantly? Plus I'm sure the Jiggs won't just throw it out there. I'm sure there would be some stun before the rest potentiality misses. Like if the Jiggs tried to do nair -> rest.
I'm still skeptical on either that would connect or not... someone test it for me. I only got one controller with me...
Also speaking of punishment.. Can Mewtwo use disable on a Jiggs in mid rest? lmao that would be hella ****. (But yeah he really doesn't have a legit punish unless he has a stored shadowball or something).
lmao Pichu's fully charged F-smash is avoidable. Can DI out of it before the final blow (which is the strongest). Ness' smashes suuuuck.. but can PK flash even connect if you catch the Jiggs fail the rest instantly? Plus I'm sure the Jiggs won't just throw it out there. I'm sure there would be some stun before the rest potentiality misses. Like if the Jiggs tried to do nair -> rest.
I'm still skeptical on either that would connect or not... someone test it for me. I only got one controller with me...
Also speaking of punishment.. Can Mewtwo use disable on a Jiggs in mid rest? lmao that would be hella ****. (But yeah he really doesn't have a legit punish unless he has a stored shadowball or something).
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
well basically id much rather have puff sleeping. can't mash out plus set stun time. disable would only be useful at higher percents. like up throw kill percents lol.
m2 can alway charge sb b4 rest ends. sometimes its not enough, if it won't kill go for damage. throw combo or djc dair combo.
mewtwo is too tall to disable a sleeping puff. they have to be platformed or elevated and you may have to jump disable.
if rest fudges on a plat then pk flash would be easier to hit with if you di off the platform and get beneath her.
pichu would just f smash as close as possible making it harder to di out because of more distance needed. they actually could probably di behind or up idk. but im sure its not easy.
ness bat kills at solid numbers being 65 75 probably. so kinda weak.
but no di pk flash fresh kills at 35 off top fd. if you are grounded it can hit puff. I think there is a bit of leeway but not much, they last about the same.(but hit box comes out b4 rest end)
mid to higher percents I say they have decent punishes.
m2 can alway charge sb b4 rest ends. sometimes its not enough, if it won't kill go for damage. throw combo or djc dair combo.
mewtwo is too tall to disable a sleeping puff. they have to be platformed or elevated and you may have to jump disable.
if rest fudges on a plat then pk flash would be easier to hit with if you di off the platform and get beneath her.
pichu would just f smash as close as possible making it harder to di out because of more distance needed. they actually could probably di behind or up idk. but im sure its not easy.
ness bat kills at solid numbers being 65 75 probably. so kinda weak.
but no di pk flash fresh kills at 35 off top fd. if you are grounded it can hit puff. I think there is a bit of leeway but not much, they last about the same.(but hit box comes out b4 rest end)
mid to higher percents I say they have decent punishes.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
Pichu's skull bash is way more reliable than fsmash, and I think it's relatively the same power.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
It's not like pichu has a powerful up smash or anything... >_>
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