Meta Match Up Discussion - Vs. Ryu

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Brain vs. Brawn people. Let's go!

General Rules:

• No Flaming. Respect the opinions of others even if you disagree. Let's not get heated on an online forum for a family-friendly game. Failure to abide by this will result in the wrath of the law.
• Human error isn't something worth serious consideration. Discussions will assume both characters are being played to utmost potential.

The following are suggested subtopics of conversation:

• Character strengths and weaknesses
• How to effectively approach/deter approaches
• Off-stage game
• Positional play
• Punishes/punishing
• Specific moves/strings that are strong for both characters
• Suggested custom movesets
• Stage strengths and weaknesses
• Overall score [NOTE: THIS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT DURING THE FIRST ROUND OF DISCUSSION]

***For general questions not related to the current topic in this thread please use the General Match Up thread.***

This thread shall last for around 8-9 days, with the next thread opening up in about 5-7 days.

 

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Tough to choose any one character this week due to the patch, but this match seemed popular a couple weeks back plus the above seemed like a good talking point. "shrugs"

 

[meleebrawler]

Ryu can be very, very scary to go up against with the high damage on most his moves and powerful shoryuken that can be set up in a lot of ways. He is also possibly the biggest winner in the recent patch with pretty much all of his aerials and tilts becoming safe on shield, and his collarbone breaker becoming a reliable breaker.

Still, we do have a number of advantages to help offset his power. Confusion and shadow ball prohibit him from simply hadouken zoning in neutral to get a reaction giving us the edge at range. We have better mobility to get around his high damage spacing (important when shielding is often a liability) via having much more options. Focus Attack isn't reliable for getting out of a jam thanks to the multihitting nair and usmash. His recovery, while good in distance and having decent mixup potential often leaves gaps of vulnerability that can be exploited.

With all that in mind the key to victory lies in being almost constantly mobile, never letting him get a bead on you while spacing your moves as best as you can. Do not engage in close combat for any longer than necessary as he can easily turn the tables there, and above all do not let him pin you down near the edge

It's pretty close to even since matches between the two really comes down to which player is better at spacing and/or makes fewer mistakes, though it could be slightly favourable to Ryu (55/45) on account of usually needing to make fewer correct moves to win.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I haven't played the MU since the update and Ryu is getting a lot of hype from this update. So I'm not sure how to feel about this MU just yet. EL vs Blue happened and blue switched to sonic after game 1. Here's the link...the video.is long but it's the first match.
https://youtu.be/Bq0uzP-wabM

 

[meleebrawler]

I haven't played the MU since the update and Ryu is getting a lot of hype from this update. So I'm not sure how to feel about this MU just yet. EL vs Blue happened and blue switched to sonic after game 1. Here's the link...the video.is long but it's the first match.
https://youtu.be/Bq0uzP-wabM

Not much has changed really. We could never really punish things Ryu did on shield and 1.1.1 is no different. The main difference is that Collarbone Breaker is now a reliable blockstring.

Luckily with our low traction and great short-hop airdodge we are fairly good at dodging shield pressure. But you have to condition yourself to not use shield much first.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu wins for one reason.

Reliable kill confirms. That's all.

 

[meleebrawler]

Ryu wins for one reason.

Reliable kill confirms. That's all.

You know this applies to like almost 80% of the roster?

Come back with an actual analysis when you're done riding the high of maining super-viable Ryu.

Oh and for the record, I seem to recall that you believe the matchup for Ryu doesn't bode well for him, and as far as I can tell Rock doesn't have much in the way of kill confirms either. So obviously there's more to winning matches than just "I have kill confirms and you don't so I win".

 

[Browny]

Rosalina has how many kill confirms and is top tier.

Also kill confirms are worthless when you cant actually get the confirmation. Look at that video of Ginko. Absolutely perfect spacing. NOT ONCE the entire match did he give Ryu a chance to KO with shoryuken. You can have the greatest kill confirms in the world but if you cant actually get them, they are worthless.

So no, that is not a reason why Ryu wins the matchup because Mewtwo has the mobility, the mixups, the range and the safety to stay out of utilt range forever.

If Ryu is trying to land on you with nair or dair, just take the shield pressure. Dont try to grab it or anti-air it coz you'll probably die from it. Ryu only kills you if you mess up. His grabs are far less threatening than his nair.

 

[MulfordnSons]

Like someone mentioned earlier, most of Ryu's moves still can't be punished out of shield, unless a powershield is involved. However, as a Ryu main, I have found it easier to land more safely with him in 1.1.1...now that most of his aerials do a decent amount of shield pressure.
Ryu is indeed super-viable and the skill cap for this character is extremely high (making him that much more fun to play with), however, he most definitely has flaws.
First, his ground speed isn't anything that actually makes an opponent follow him in order to know where's he's going to go, this coupled with his **** air mobility make it even easier to know/judge where Ryu will land...if Ryu is going one way in the air, he is most likely going to continue to go that way.
Second, his neutral game is good, but not great. And when going into tournament setting, Ryu will undoubtedly face a horde of Sheiks and Diddy's and ZSS's (ZSS...S'S??). Hadoken does not have priority over sheiks needles, Hadoken does have priority over banana, however, the frames of cooldown for Hadoken and Fireball leave Ryu open to those damned naner combos...ZSS is known for mobility and eats Ryu up in the neutral.
Thirdly, and the most important, Ryu's recovery. Ryu DOES have ALOT of mix-ups at his disposal when it comes to recovery, however, they are all fairly readable. All it takes to gimp Ryu is a projectile or move that has priority of Tatsumaki and he can very easily lose a stock.

Ryu is a straight up G when he gets up close and personal, though. Little Mac is known for being a counter fighter, get in and get out. Ryu, However, is Holyfield dirty when he gets up close and personal. I can't tell you how many times I would get chewed out in neutral playing as Ryu, down by like 50% and as soon as I get one u-tilt (followed by x amount more because of c stick uptilt infinite) true combo into shoryuken, the game is tied. His combo ability is some of the best in Smash 4, and when he has Rage....just stay away from him...seriously.

I think the Smash 4 development team has done an INSANE job of adding Ryu and balancing him and his street fighter characteristics into Smash's engine. From this last patch, it seems the sky is the limit for the timeless wanderer...and I have no complaints!

SHORYUKEN!

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

You know this applies to like almost 80% of the roster?

Come back with an actual analysis when you're done riding the high of maining super-viable Ryu.

Oh and for the record, I seem to recall that you believe the matchup for Ryu doesn't bode well for him, and as far as I can tell Rock doesn't have much in the way of kill confirms either. So obviously there's more to winning matches than just "I have kill confirms and you don't so I win".

Have you not played the MU? You have played the MU and you know exactly how it goes. I think you're attempting to strawman what EL is saying. Now I'm seeing people claim that tyu being able to pressure Mewtwo shield for free isn't a big deal. When I see post like it really makes me wonder if you guys have a basic u of the game.

 

[meleebrawler]

Have you not played the MU? You have played the MU and you know exactly how it goes. I think you're attempting to strawman what EL is saying. Now I'm seeing people claim that tyu being able to pressure Mewtwo shield for free isn't a big deal. When I see post like it really makes me wonder if you guys have a basic u of the game.

As of 1.1.1 Ryu can pressure ANYBODY's shield. The key difference for Mewtwo is that he has both low traction sliding him away from Ryu('s kill confirms) and a very fast airdodge making it harder for him to do so on Mewtwo. I don't really care if Ryu bairing my shield sends me two feet away and unable to punish, I have distance between him now and that's good for Mewtwo.

I never denied what he said isn't true, those kill confirms are real and definitely a point in Ryu's favour, but they're not unavoidable. Quite the opposite, in fact if you play your spacing game well.

Ryu in disadvantage is in a serious bind, but do keep in mind that he can dash cancel Focus Attack to throw you off his trail so don't get too lax (and as an extra tidbit... disable beats it).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

As of 1.1.1 Ryu can pressure ANYBODY's shield. The key difference for Mewtwo is that he has both low traction sliding him away from Ryu('s kill confirms) and a very fast airdodge making it harder for him to do so on Mewtwo. I don't really care if Ryu bairing my shield sends me two feet away and unable to punish, I have distance between him now and that's good for Mewtwo.

I never denied what he said isn't true, those kill confirms are real and definitely a point in Ryu's favour, but they're not unavoidable. Quite the opposite, in fact if you play your spacing game well.

Ryu in disadvantage is in a serious bind, but do keep in mind that he can dash cancel Focus Attack to throw you off his trail so don't get too lax (and as an extra tidbit... disable beats it).

You do realize that being able to not punish things that hit our shield isn't a positive thing right ?

 

[meleebrawler]

You do realize that being able to not punish things that hit our shield isn't a positive thing right ?

Hardly anyone can really punish his moves on shield now unless the attacks are a) powershielded or b) really badly spaced.

You don't shield against Ryu to punish anymore. You do it to stay safe. And Mewtwo's shield does it better than anyone except Luigi who HATES getting pushed out. If you can't punish, moving out of harm's way is the next best thing.

You want to get hits in on Ryu, you're going to have to outwit and outmaneuver him. Mewtwo already couldn't rely on his shield as crutch, now practically everyone is in the same boat leaving Mewtwo's low traction shield giving him a leg up in safety.

 

[Karsticles]

Nair is incredible in this matchup. Biggest Mewtwo issue is watching out for a Tatsu read to counter weak Shadow Ball.