Matchup Chart

[DtJ Hilt]

I'm about to head out but if you'd like, I could help with it. It'll be about an hour.

 

[~Amaterasu~]

Fino wanted me to say he would rather post every MU in olis advantage than not including slights. Otherwise people will confuse matchups and think that ganon is as easy as lucario (inb4rich). Lol I been so inactive lately x]

 

[Noa.]

You should help me with it Hilt. You should've resonded to my text. x.x

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Get in the chat and I'll help X:

 

[Noa.]

Here's the chart.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

nice chart drac!

 

[Noa.]

Thanks Saget.

So now comes the next step.

First, really state if you have a big problem with a certain term decided for a matchup. Do not argue against the opinions of others but more against the average. Only if it's significant though. Like if you want to change disadvantage to advantage.

Here's where we're going with this. After everyone finds the chart ok for the most part, then we'll move on to make the chart more specific. We're going to change some matchups to small advantages, normal advantages, and big advantages. Same for disadvantages obviously.

Small dis/advantage: A character has slight leniency in the matchup. This isn't really too noticeable. It doesn't affect the outcome of the match, but during the match it may at times be difficult for the slightly disadvantaged character to keep up. Considering equal players of course. No johns for losing in this matchup.

Normal dis/advantage is the same as before

Big dis/advantage: this means that a character has a significant advantage. The disadvantaged character really needs to outplay the other character to win. You MUST be better than your opponent to win, and by a noticeable margin. Some johns are allowed in this matchup.

Absolute dis/advantage: This is for matchups like Ganon and Zelda. The ones that are basically unwinnable.

Everyone should just post there new beliefs. BUT, you must somewhat comply with the averaged matchup chart.

An even matchup can go up or down to a slight advantage or slight disadvantage. DO NOT change it to a full advantage or disadvantage, or something bigger than those. An advantage can grow to slight advantage, big advantage, or absolute advantage. It cannot become even or a disadvantage. AT ALL!!

Now if you personally feel that a certain matchup listing is wrong on the averaged out chart, convince these boards as a whole to change it.

Thank you and I hope to see your new matchup lists.

*you can participate in the new lists even if you didn't submit an old one.

 

[Geddan]

so i guess i'm going to go ahead and post first.

keep in mind that this was made when i was very very tired, and although i put much thought into it, i may edit it later after seeing what some of the rest of you put, or after reevaluating my list. :3


MK: Big Disadvantage

Snake: Even
Diddy: Even
Falco: Even
Icies: Small Disadvantage
Marth: Disadvantage
Wario: Even

DDD: Advantage
Pikachu: Advantage
Olimar: Even
Lucario: Advantage
G&W: Advantage

Pit: Advantage
Tink: Small Advantage
ZSS: Even
Kirby: Advantage
ROB: Advantage

DK: Advantage
Peach: Disadvantage
Fox: Advantage
Luigi: Disadvantage
Wolf: Even

Sheik: Small Advantage
PT: Small Advantage
Sonic: Advantage
Ness: Small Advantage
Bowser: Advantage

Lucas: Small Advantage
Ike: Big Advantage
Yoshi: Small Disadvantage
Mario: Small Advantage
CF: Advantage
Samus: Advantage
Jiggs: Advantage

Zelda: Big Advantage
Link: Advantage
Ganon: Absolute Advantage

 

[Voyeur]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=273379

 

[Denti]

good work guys, seriously.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Nice chart, sir. I'll post my votes later.

Two things:
1. I love how you COMPLETELY missed my joke, Draco. Check what I put for the Olimar matchup. X3

2. I see you put "Disadvantage" as my P.T. vote. We're assuming that the P.T. in question is primarily using Squirtle, then?
The P.T. matchup seems to have many nuances that make it difficult to make a set call on things like this.

 

[Denti]

squirtle makes me rage so hard. after him it's easier though

 

[Geddan]

squirtle is the only disadvantageous part of the match-up.

 

[Denti]

I just wish there was a **** squirtle move.. XD only thing i look forward to in that MU is that he has a low survival rate

 

[DtJ Hilt]

A PT user should be able to use squirtle a good 2/3 of the set, using charizard for the majority of the last third. Switching to Charizard from Ivysaur against Olimar, and taking the hit on the switch is worth a lot more than them dealing with how hard we **** Ivysaur lol

2/3 of the game being squirtle brings the matchup to even.

 

[Denti]

this is very very very true. up smash on squirtle is good. maybe i should camp harder? idk i just want this MU to feel easier XD

if it wasn't for his jab we could handle the MU no prob

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I find this interesting.

For most of the more notable MU's you have a consensus for the most part, that's better than some other areas of the forum that don't agree as well as you guys do.

 

[Zori]

should i post?

 

[ViS]

squirtle *****

 

[Denti]

should i post?

swap fogo's love for you onto me

 

[Zori]

sorry i know the key to his heart :d

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

MetaKnight: even, slight mk favor

Snake: even
Diddy: even
Falco: even, slight falco favor
Ice Climbers: too biased to say, haha, i feel all characters that don't have 5 jumps are at a disadvantage vs ic's.
Marth: even
Wario: even

King DDD: advantage
Pikachu: advantage
Olimar:
Lucario: idk
Mr. G&W: even

Pit: even
Toon Link: idk
Zero Suit Samus: even, slight zss favor (**** that jab)
Kirby: even, slight oli favor
ROB: pretty decent oli favor

Donkey Kong: decent oli favor
Peach: extreme disadvantage e.e
Fox: even
Luigi: even (or so everyone else thinks otherwise. have yet to struggle with a top luigi)
Wolf: even

Sheik: even
Pokemon Trainer: even (squirtle *****, we **** ivy, and charizard is even)
Sonic: who cares
Ness: even, slight ness favor
Bowser: who cares

Lucas: idk
Ike: even, slight oli favor
Yoshi: even
Mario: even, slight oli
Captain Falcon: who cares
Samus: who cares
Jigglypuff: who cares

Zelda: who cares
Link: who cares
Ganondorf: who cares

that pretty much sums it

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Fearless.......why do i see MK at even to small disadvantage!

I really don't think it's that close. Please explain. I hope you're right. Itd be pretty cool if the mu was that close but i doubt it is.

 

[Denti]

I swim with MK mains here in texas... I really don't believe it's that close. It's our most difficult MU imo. But then again, any match up is difficult if it makes you anxious. The more you believe you have the advantage and can win, the more likely you will play better and win.

 

[Sky Pirate]

That must be a North Texas thing. Austin has... one actual MK and he plays multiple characters.

Am I still allowed to argue against a certain averaged listing?
If so, I would really like to question putting ICs as "Even". Blizzard wall blocks almost anything we can throw out and they can space it to prevent us from Usmashing or Fsmashing it. Jumping over is incredibly risky, as is camping the edge. The main thing I hear is to "scrooge", but that option isn't always available.

Anyone care to argue against this? If this isn't significant, feel free to ignore me.

 

[Denti]

ban FD. every other stage has a platform, make that platform your friend and safezone from blizzard and CG. throw pikmin toss and f smashes off the platform at them. punish anything that you can when they attempt to hit you off the platform.

 

[Geddan]

ban FD. every other stage has a platform, make that platform your friend and safezone from blizzard and CG. throw pikmin toss and f smashes off the platform at them. punish anything that you can when they attempt to hit you off the platform.

tl;dr

Icies oli match-up: don't get grabbed?????

lol, i kid denti.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Try throwing pikmin toss and Fsmashes off the platform at a place like YI.
They do have an Uair, too.

 

[Denti]

I'm not saying YI is extra sexy but if you can predict their Uairs you can punish. you really can. the 2 most important things on that MU is to not get grabed, and to learn how to **** nana when their separated. we have long attacks and a quick spike.

 

[Fuujin]

LOL @ the Sheik ratios.
You guys know its considered like 35-65 for Sheik right?
I'm seeing even and disadvantages here.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Guess most sheik mains don't know how to fight Olimar. Sheik has a lot more in the matchup than you'd expect and gives Olimar a hard time in several ways. It's definitely not in Sheik's favor, but it isn't in Olimar's by much at all. Ask Judo about the Olimar matchup, bro.

 

[Fuujin]

Guess most sheik mains don't know how to fight Olimar. Sheik has a lot more in the matchup than you'd expect and gives Olimar a hard time in several ways. It's definitely not in Sheik's favor, but it isn't in Olimar's by much at all. Ask Judo about the Olimar matchup, bro.

Not trying to change the topic but how so?

None of her tricks work on him, pikmin get in the way of needles he racks up damage on her much faster than her (chaingrabs) and kills her at like 95-110. She can't get close to him without getting ***** by a rainbow of ikmin.
All she has is her gimping, and by the time she's able knock him off stage she's already taken far more damage.

His grab destroys her ground game so she's left trying to land b airs as its her only safe aerial on him.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Sheik does have to come at Olimar at an awkward angle but it's not as difficult as it sounds. If Sheik hits Olimar's shield with nair, landing right next to him, there's absolutely nothing he can do. Your jab covers every single one of our options. Our grab comes out in eleven frames, that's much, much more time than it takes sheik to do anything worthwhile. Olimar has to run away constantly the entire match and if he gets caught, he's ****ed. Sooner or later we're going to get cornered at a ledge. It's a game of momentum. And yeah, if Sheik gets Olimar to (or even close to) the ledge, it's oftentimes a stock. It's also difficult for Oli to land a kill on sheik with his decent speed, low priority smashes. Grab kills are our best option, and if the opponent knows better, we won't be getting anything other than a uthrow on anyone any time soon.

It's basically a case of Sheik having the problem of getting in, and Olimar having the problem of keeping her out. It definitely is in Olimar's favor, but not by that large of a margin. There's more to the matchup, such as chain, and recover options, but i'll leave that for a matchup discussion.

X:

 

[Geddan]

11 frames is so horrible. i knew it was pretty bad, but i didn't know it was 11 frames. >__<

 

[pulse131]

pretty sure wolf goes even or has a slight advantage. nair and fair get pikmin away quickly. ftilt on shield prevents grabs. wolfs can out camp oli. and of course a better aerial/offstage game.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

yeah it's even

 

[Geddan]

ftilt on shield so gay, he basically gets a free follow-up.

 

[Latias]

neds chart with actual pictures of the 39 smash peoples.

 

[Latias]

are we not making a mu chart anymore :?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Give us a bit of time, and we'll be working on it. It's going to take a bit more activity than what we have, at the moment, haha.