Matchup Discussion

[Uncle Pie]

I just had a look at ZSS (she's all I seem to face online), and I discovered that in sm4sh she has a zair which reaches further than samus' and can tipper for 6%...

By the way, ZSS down B is anything but laggy if it misses. Try using ZSS and holding shield after down B misses.

The things we have in this matchup are... well not much. Literally the only 2 things I can think of are charge shot, as a ranged kill move, and a significant weight advantage. Over time I imagine this is going to become an awful matchup.

 

[FlAlex]

I just had a look at ZSS (she's all I seem to face online), and I discovered that in sm4sh she has a zair which reaches further than samus' and can tipper for 6%...

Over time I imagine this is going to become an awful matchup.

The hell were the game balancers thinking? Why is Zamus' longer AND stronger?

just about EVERY match-up will be awful/disadvantageous for Samus.

Thanks for the info, Uncle Pie. I'll keep this in mind.

 

[DungeonMaster]

If Zamus attacks within the backflip, and she misses, say you spot-dodge it, the landing lag is huge. You could drive a truck through that window, try it for yourself. If she just does the move without mid-air kick, there is still landing lag, like every landing.
Essentially every move in this game has landing lag, there are few exceptions very specifically reflectors/absorbers (say fox/ness).
If you time a missile, or more importantly a charge shot with its wide area, to hit them as they land, it's a guaranteed hit.
Even "auto-canceled" aerials have 4 frames. The design choice for reflectors and absorbers having no landing lag is not random, neither the omnipresence of it otherwise.
I want to make a detailed video of my playstyle in a bit, I'm not claiming it's competition level but I win quite a bit. My theory is Sakurai was right, she is the overall best in the game. There is no character that better punishes the land and roll in this game. You make them jump, or roll, and then blast them. It's the skill I've been cultivating now and it's really not terribly hard and amazingly fun and effective. Right now people are enamoured with throw combos and rush-down speed, I have a hunch that strategic play into the only true openings in defence will eventually dominate and Samus is the best at this. We'll see, it's still early. There's a lot of very careful design in this game, I find new things every week and I'm greatly enjoying exploring the matchups.

Samus' f-tilt considerably out-ranges Zamus' incidentally. I have yet to fight a good Zamus but I have very clearly frustrated a whole pile of them online. Most jump or roll, and therefore, die.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

The hell were the game balancers thinking? Why is Zamus' longer AND stronger?

just about EVERY match-up will be awful/disadvantageous for Samus.

Thanks for the info, Uncle Pie. I'll keep this in mind.

Yeah this seemed odd to me, so I tested it and they're the same length.

The differences between them is Samus' is multi hit while Zss' is 1 hit at the tip. ZSS' does 6 damage at full range and 3 if it isn't full range. Samus' does 1 and then 3 at full range for a total of 4. ZSS can only hit with the move once unlike Samus, so you have to space it well to get the 6%. Since Samus' is multihit it can eat projectiles making her life much easier vs a select few.

Overall I'd say Samus' is better but ZSS can utilize her's easier.

 

[IsmaR]

Samus' functions better for its intended purpose, actually recovering. ZSS is better off using her Side B (also tether recovery effect).

I feel as if Samus has the advantage in general off stage. Most people fail to realize multi-hit moves like F-air and U-air are amazing for disrupting recoveries (if ZSS is left with only her up B, she's more than likely screwed).

 

[FlAlex]

Yeah this seemed odd to me, so I tested it and they're the same length.

The differences between them is Samus' is multi hit while Zss' is 1 hit at the tip. ZSS' does 6 damage at full range and 3 if it isn't full range. Samus' does 1 and then 3 at full range for a total of 4. ZSS can only hit with the move once unlike Samus, so you have to space it well to get the 6%. Since Samus' is multihit it can eat projectiles making her life much easier vs a select few.

Overall I'd say Samus' is better but ZSS can utilize her's easier.

Okay, this makes the tether competition much better for Samus. Thanks for the find. I was about to rage about how yet another Samus feature is inferior to her half-dressed counterpart and all the mind-boggling silly decisions the team made for Samus (her jab specifically).

Has anyone found a usefulness to Samus' jab yet? I've heard you can use it to trick the opponent into shielding for an easy grab but the timing is a pain and Samus could jab1>grab had she a jab-cancel like Ike and Shulk.

 

[meleebrawler]

Try a Nair, or perhaps bomb over them after the jab.

It's an intercept move that helps create an opportunity
for Samus to get some breathing room. Works well
against short hops.

 

[Afro Smash]

How to beat Olimar?

His height obviously makes hitting him an issue, then he can just throw his pikmin on to you for damage or to absorb all your projectiles. Is there any way to avoid the pikmin other than spot dodging? and whats the best way to get them off?

And then keeping track of which is his current pikmin so u can know their grab range, whether its a purple one which will knock you back etc ughhhhhhhhhhhh I hate this match up

Edit: Any tips would still be appreciated but I think I'll just switch to a rush down character like Falcon if I come across another in the future

 

[IsmaR]

I usually work around the MU with tilts. Especially pivot F-tilt and PP U-tilt (if they just barely miss you with a Smash attack, the U-tilt will kill all but full health Purple Pikmin). I also usually either N-air or U-tilt to rid myself of latched Pikmin. If all else fails, find a safe place to use Screw Attack (either on stages with platforms, or fun off stage/do it into a ledge). Use things like uncharged shots to stop random ones thrown at you/trying to get back to Olimar, and make sure to get good use of your grabs (saves you a lot more than you'd expect). Grabs are also great for getting Olimar off stage, where you can wreak havoc on his recovery with your aerials, or charge neutral B.

Keeping track of Pikmin is also essential for which moves/projectiles they'll block. Use less missiles/D-tilt if Red one is up front, and less Charge Shot/Z-air if Yellow is in front. I can't tell you how many times I've had yellow unintentionally eat a fully charged Neutral B.

-

As for bomb > jab 1 them into bomb > jab 2, I think it has its merit due to quickness/for baiting. However usually F-tilt or grabs are better.

 

[Zaprong]

What to do against a very aggro Sheik?

I was in a tournament and He/she didnt even get hurt by projectiles, and cant get grabbed at all since Sheik is always in the air, you cant charge your charge shot either because of how fast the needles are...

 

[KevJames]

Recently started playing Samus and hit a brick wall that is Duck Hunt Dog.

Just can't seem to get past all his projectiles. His clay pigeons neutralize our fully charged charge shot and missles. Approaching without taking too much damage is difficult. Once I do get in, it seems like DH is able to easily put some space in between us and continue what he was once doing. How is this matchup for Samus?

 

[Uncle Pie]

Okay, this makes the tether competition much better for Samus. Thanks for the find. I was about to rage about how yet another Samus feature is inferior to her half-dressed counterpart and all the mind-boggling silly decisions the team made for Samus (her jab specifically).

To be honest, ZSS zair is better than ours for hitting people. Ours is better for recovery.

After calming down a bit about this questionable design choice, samus does have some stuff against ZSS. Her weight advantage is genuinely significant, her tilts outrange ZSS' tilts, bombs are amazing against people who try to wait you out, and charge shot is incredibly scary for ZSS. I think Samus also has a much easier time killing than ZSS - bair, charge shot, up B oos, uair at high percents (lol, this is actually a thing) & fsmash, while ZSS has...up B, fmsash and gimps?

 

[Afro Smash]

How to beat Sanic? I thought the match up was ok since I'd beaten some before, but I just faced a really good one and I found it basically impossible to punish anything he did. He has so maany lagless or low endinng lag attacks that grabbing him out of them is almost impossible, and of the few times you think he might be punishable he can just Up B away for free. Then obviously the massive speed difference and the fact Samus' attacks are generally much laggier means everything you do is basically a read.

This is another match up that I feel is just far easier to switch to a different character, unless you guys have any good tips

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

How to beat Sanic? I thought the match up was ok since I'd beaten some before, but I just faced a really good one and I found it basically impossible to punish anything he did. He has so maany lagless or low endinng lag attacks that grabbing him out of them is almost impossible, and of the few times you think he might be punishable he can just Up B away for free. Then obviously the massive speed difference and the fact Samus' attacks are generally much laggier means everything you do is basically a read.

This is another match up that I feel is just far easier to switch to a different character, unless you guys have any good tips

Like with other fast characters you need to slow them down. If they play as fast as they're character allows them to, we're done for. It's mostly reads, yeah.

 

[FlAlex]

Like with other fast characters you need to slow them down. If they play as fast as they're character allows them to, we're done for. It's mostly reads, yeah.

I'd personally go for another character.

If we were to stay Samus though, GdspdUblkprzdnt, is correct. You need to predict where he will be NOT where he is. So yes, too much reading for a comfortable, or even fair, MU (Sakurai? Where are my new balances?)

Just wondering, what secondaries do you guys carry to help out your Samus? I use: Marth, Pikachu, and Kirby.

Edit: Do the bombs actually help against SANIK?

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I'd personally go for another character.

If we were to stay Samus though, GdspdUblkprzdnt, is correct. You need to predict where he will be NOT where he is. So yes, too much reading for a comfortable, or even fair, MU (Sakurai? Where are my new balances?)

Just wondering, what secondaries do you guys carry to help out your Samus? I use: Marth, Pikachu, and Kirby.

Edit: Do the bombs actually help against SANIK?

My secondary is Wii Fit Trainer which does rather poorly against the same bad MUs for Samus anyways save for Yoshi most notably. Dabbling with as many other characters but I might pick up DK for a third auxiliary character.
I think Pikachu and Marth pretty much cover you for any and all of Samus' bad MUs so you're golden, man.

 

[FlAlex]

My secondary is Wii Fit Trainer which does rather poorly against the same bad MUs for Samus anyways save for Yoshi most notably. Dabbling with as many other characters but I might pick up DK for a third auxiliary character.
I think Pikachu and Marth pretty much cover you for any and all of Samus' bad MUs so you're golden, man.

I thought about WFT. She looked similar to Samus but with greater speed and better crawl (REALLY love fox-laser avoiding crawls). Do you like her?

I play DK for fun. You can piss off sooo many people on for glory.

I did notice that Martha and Pika cover Samus well. Just don't think I chose them for that reason. I had always admired Marth mains because I viewed them as the most skilled players due to using the tipper. So I just had to pick him up. None of the characters I have ever played I chose due to cold calculations, except for a few that I dropped and pikachu. Kinda need Pika's thunder-jolts against those campers and I really loved how that Pika Main I talked about earlier played him. I picked Kirby up for fun (mostly) because I just got done playing Kirby: Triple deluxe and it kinda re-inspired my love for Kirby.

Anyhow... thanks for replying back. The Samus boards were kinda quite for a while.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I thought about WFT. She looked similar to Samus but with greater speed and better crawl (REALLY love fox-laser avoiding crawls). Do you like her?

I play DK for fun. You can piss off sooo many people on for glory.

I did notice that Martha and Pika cover Samus well. Just don't think I chose them for that reason. I had always admired Marth mains because I viewed them as the most skilled players due to using the tipper. So I just had to pick him up. None of the characters I have ever played I chose due to cold calculations, except for a few that I dropped and pikachu. Kinda need Pika's thunder-jolts against those campers and I really loved how that Pika Main I talked about earlier played him. I picked Kirby up for fun (mostly) because I just got done playing Kirby: Triple deluxe and it kinda re-inspired my love for Kirby.

Anyhow... thanks for replying back. The Samus boards were kinda quite for a while.

No worries, man. Good to be able to share with someone else besides just lurking.

I could go on for paragraphs comparing and contrasting the dynamics of Samus and WFT. Know that should you decide to give WFT a try, your sensibilities when it comes to using your CS will translate almost perfectly to using the sun salutation. The main difference between the two projectiles is that Wii Fit's does less knock back fully charged and has far less priority (a fully charged SS clanks with our Super Missile) but lesser charged units provide more knockback so their overall more suited for a quick projectile for pestering or staggering an approach. Both Samus and WFT shine defensively. The threat of both characters charging their neutral B forces opponents to approach but where Samus succeeds and holding her ground, using her grab and tilts to space enemies or playing keep away with her excellent shield dash, WFT prefers to just stay airborne and do loop-d-loops, using her airspeed to her advantage, using her multiple stalls to fakeout opponents and feint landings and footstooling shielded opponents to charge up her SS from up high. Not only does WFT have her Neutral B charge to force approaches, she also has her down B which makies opponents approach even more hurriedly. Her aerial options open up for a lot of mind games. Overall I find WFT to be a huge breath of fresh air to the constant pressure of having to make correct reads with Samus and I can just leisurely jump around and play a sort of projectile capable Jigglypuff with better agility albeit no options against shields except the player's own wits and conditioning.

As for DK, I love all the options he has to deal with shields and playing a character who hits hard and moves so fast.

Kirby, man. Kirby seems like such a fun character to main. The ability copy adds such an awesome dynamic to certain matchups. Even though I'm sure some like Mario or Luigi are pretty negligible, characters like Shulk and Villager make such a impact on the way Kirby has to play.

 

[Afro Smash]

My secondaries are mainly ROB, Pit, Marth and soon to be Zelda, though I never really use them to actually counterpick my opp, just other fun characters I like.

Though in theory ROB should patch up Samus' weaknesses fairly well

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Anyone here have experience dealing with Ness? His small frame makes him hard to keep out and actually landing a kill move against a dodge happy Ness is tough.

 

[Afro Smash]

Yh Ness and Falco seem to be the most popular salty counterpicks people choose after losing.

Ness can be tricky, as you said his short stature can make him difficult to hit, and he has great aerial priority and deceptive range, the best way to kill him ive found is getting him off stage, hitting him out of his 2nd jump and then attempting to gimp him when hes forced to pk thunder, either by getting in the way of the thunder or hitting him with an aerial.

If you hit him with a charge shot off stage they will usually start down b'ing off stage too, which just gives you more time to land an aerial.

And finally just being sneaky with the charge shot can land some easy kills too

 

[DungeonMaster]

Dodge happy is good, absorb happy is bad. My main sparring partner mains Ness, he's easily the character I have the most experience fighting against.
He's in the class of priority happy small things with disjoints (i.e. irritating). You want to fight at ftilt range and kick him quite a bit. You can kick away the pk-fire and frustrate him since he does not have range or speed to run in and grab. Repeated kicks. A pivot kick and a grab for good measure as mixup, but a lot of kicking.
His aerial approach you punish with up-B. Your aerials will generally lose. I've been experimenting with short-hop d-air recently, to some success and it leads to many true combos. I don't really challenge him in the air except from coming from below, which is quite safe. They love that fair string to death and will use it at any opportunity. Thing is, keep in mind all those little hits sum to just 4% if they all hit. If he chases you high with pk thunder you want nair to get rid of it. Up-air also works but the angle is sometimes bad.
You want to read the roll and charge shot. If he gets absorb happy you must shoot missile before charge shot. Homing version because super does too much knockback if he's at kill percents and you want to be quite close. It becomes a bait-game, where you send your missile out, he decides to try for bat or absorb, you decide on charge shot or dash grab. But it's very much in your favour.
Ness will always be fishing for the grab when you are at high percents. I like to pull out bombs then because disrupting the grab and n-air him to his face is priceless.
Ness' recovery is very very predictable offstage.

 

[RoachCake]

Just learned the hard way multiple times from a decent Link player recently that you just can not shield grab Link out of a SH N-air.
Link's N-air has almost no endlag on it so he can pull out a Jab combo or a tilt of his choice as soon as he lands, you gotta be extra patient in shield against these guys.

Alot of them still fall for the SH Charge Shot though, it's kinda funny watching them just sit there and get headshotted.

 

[FlAlex]

No worries, man. Good to be able to share with someone else besides just lurking.

I could go on for paragraphs comparing and contrasting the dynamics of Samus and WFT. Know that should you decide to give WFT a try, your sensibilities when it comes to using your CS will translate almost perfectly to using the sun salutation. The main difference between the two projectiles is that Wii Fit's does less knock back fully charged and has far less priority (a fully charged SS clanks with our Super Missile) but lesser charged units provide more knockback so their overall more suited for a quick projectile for pestering or staggering an approach. Both Samus and WFT shine defensively. The threat of both characters charging their neutral B forces opponents to approach but where Samus succeeds and holding her ground, using her grab and tilts to space enemies or playing keep away with her excellent shield dash, WFT prefers to just stay airborne and do loop-d-loops, using her airspeed to her advantage, using her multiple stalls to fakeout opponents and feint landings and footstooling shielded opponents to charge up her SS from up high. Not only does WFT have her Neutral B charge to force approaches, she also has her down B which makies opponents approach even more hurriedly. Her aerial options open up for a lot of mind games. Overall I find WFT to be a huge breath of fresh air to the constant pressure of having to make correct reads with Samus and I can just leisurely jump around and play a sort of projectile capable Jigglypuff with better agility albeit no options against shields except the player's own wits and conditioning.

As for DK, I love all the options he has to deal with shields and playing a character who hits hard and moves so fast.

Kirby, man. Kirby seems like such a fun character to main. The ability copy adds such an awesome dynamic to certain matchups. Even though I'm sure some like Mario or Luigi are pretty negligible, characters like Shulk and Villager make such a impact on the way Kirby has to play.

HMmm. Thanks for all that info. Looks like i'll give WFT a try. Any good place to learn the basics? (kill moves, general tech and strategies)

Yes, DK was surprisingly quick for someone so large. Was quite a fun learning experience.

Kirby is fun, but not for his copy ability. I actually prefer to suck-em in then spit them out, especially in teams where the fired opponent can do some good damage and hit-stun on the other. Inhale is just so risky in 1v1 and the abilitie are almost never worth it. I like kirby because he is my kind of boxer. He has some of the best aerials because every single move has a use with little landing lag, his Dair and Nair can combo into uptilt combos or jabs, and he has mulitple jumps. Yet, he also has a great ground boxing game, or at least a SH boxing game. His jabs don't have much reach but they come out sooo fast you can punish many approaches with them and his last jab hit, the one that knocks the opponent away with decent knockback, has surprising range with little lag. Also, his crouch is useful against those Zamus' and other tall or projectile based characters. I love everything about him besides his specials. Hammer is useful against those you can play mind games with but is way to risky to use against the competent. Only useful time to use it is as a punish against things like Falcon punch and other very slow moves. It can also be used in the air. When used quickly and without charging, kirby will actually swing the hammer twice making it a heavier version of Fair (I want a buffed version of his melee aerial hammer. That spin has potential). His rock isn't very useful either. Only real purpose is for those Upair happy people who don't understand what spacing is. Up special is a rare case. It is useful as an anti-air, a projectile, and as a ledge guard since the last hit from the blade can actually soft-spike opponents. I've used it while recovering with my opponent and I ended up sweeping them up and them spiking them down for the last KO. You can also do this right on the edge for opponents who have difficulty ledge snapping. The beam that comes out might cancel the spike though.

If you want a great in-yo-face boxer, i'd say try kirby out. He's just so darn cute! That and Monado(Shulk) Kirby is just a priceless character to main when you get the chance.

 

[FlAlex]

Dodge happy is good, absorb happy is bad. My main sparring partner mains Ness, he's easily the character I have the most experience fighting against.
He's in the class of priority happy small things with disjoints (i.e. irritating). You want to fight at ftilt range and kick him quite a bit. You can kick away the pk-fire and frustrate him since he does not have range or speed to run in and grab. Repeated kicks. A pivot kick and a grab for good measure as mixup, but a lot of kicking.
His aerial approach you punish with up-B. Your aerials will generally lose. I've been experimenting with short-hop d-air recently, to some success and it leads to many true combos. I don't really challenge him in the air except from coming from below, which is quite safe. They love that fair string to death and will use it at any opportunity. Thing is, keep in mind all those little hits sum to just 4% if they all hit. If he chases you high with pk thunder you want nair to get rid of it. Up-air also works but the angle is sometimes bad.
You want to read the roll and charge shot. If he gets absorb happy you must shoot missile before charge shot. Homing version because super does too much knockback if he's at kill percents and you want to be quite close. It becomes a bait-game, where you send your missile out, he decides to try for bat or absorb, you decide on charge shot or dash grab. But it's very much in your favour.
Ness will always be fishing for the grab when you are at high percents. I like to pull out bombs then because disrupting the grab and n-air him to his face is priceless.
Ness' recovery is very very predictable offstage.

Is dodge happy good for us or for them?

Also, Why Charge shot ever? I say bait the absorb and hit them with a missile. Keep the CS for when they get off stage and in the middle of their PK thunder2 or when you predict a Pk Fire. You probably have better knowledge in this MU so i'd like to know what you think about baiting the absorb and teasing them with the CS. The threat of the CS has done me greater than the CS itself has.

Other than that, thanks for the indepth info. Very useful against those salty players on For Glory.

 

[meleebrawler]

Don't forget Zairs against Ness Fairs in the air. Though in general being on the ground
is more favourable.

 

[FlAlex]

Just learned the hard way multiple times from a decent Link player recently that you just can not shield grab Link out of a SH N-air.
Link's N-air has almost no endlag on it so he can pull out a Jab combo or a tilt of his choice as soon as he lands, you gotta be extra patient in shield against these guys.

Alot of them still fall for the SH Charge Shot though, it's kinda funny watching them just sit there and get headshotted.

They are probably expecting their precious shield to protect them.

What do you think our answers for Nair are? It's been a while since I've gone against a good link and I can't remember much from the past. Our UpTilt is a bit too laggy and slow making it primarily a read-move. We can't play the SH game cuz we fall too slow. Will angled FTilt work? HAve you tried Screwattack OoS?

 

[FlAlex]

Don't forget Zairs against Ness Fairs in the air. Though in general being on the ground
is more favourable.

Zair is a pain to land already, let alone on the small. It will work wonders but will be difficult especially when they are on the ground.

 

[RoachCake]

They are probably expecting their precious shield to protect them.

What do you think our answers for Nair are? It's been a while since I've gone against a good link and I can't remember much from the past. Our UpTilt is a bit too laggy and slow making it primarily a read-move. We can't play the SH game cuz we fall too slow. Will angled FTilt work? HAve you tried Screwattack OoS?

I didn't try Up B OoS because he wasn't close enough.
Tilts just gets interrupted by his Jab combo or F-tilt, what worked best for me was waiting in shield until he used a Jab combo or a tilt, I was then able to effectively punish him with a grab.
I think if he caught on to what I was doing he could have easily thrown out a grab instead of a tilt, so watch out for that.

 

[Afro Smash]

I've played some good links recently, I tend to jump backwards and zair if i see them approaching in the air, or stay in shield until they land and grab if they jab, or down smash if they roll behind. Can't say I can recall Up B'ing out of shield vs them being too effective, I think it trades 1 hit (1%) with their Nair if u do it whilst theyre in the air, and if they hit the shield and land, their jab comes out instantaneously so its near impossible to time effectively.

Dropping a bomb and moving backwards, rolling forwards (to go underneath them), or predicting their jump and meeting it with a fair are all decent options too

 

[FlAlex]

I didn't try Up B OoS because he wasn't close enough.
Tilts just gets interrupted by his Jab combo or F-tilt, what worked best for me was waiting in shield until he used a Jab combo or a tilt, I was then able to effectively punish him with a grab.
I think if he caught on to what I was doing he could have easily thrown out a grab instead of a tilt, so watch out for that.

I meant tilt them while using Nair to see if it beats the nair out.

Reason why i would prefer NOT to shield is because if the opponent is smart enough, they WOULD grab.

 

[RoachCake]

I meant tilt them while using Nair to see if it beats the nair out.

Reason why i would prefer NOT to shield is because if the opponent is smart enough, they WOULD grab.

I'm pretty sure Link's N-air out prioritizes Samus' F-tilt, but I could be wrong, U-tilt and D-tilt I don't know, I'll try them all out on the next good Link player I face.

 

[DungeonMaster]

Is dodge happy good for us or for them?
Also, Why Charge shot ever? I say bait the absorb and hit them with a missile.
Keep the CS for when they get off stage and in the middle of their PK thunder2 or when you predict a Pk Fire. You probably have better knowledge in this MU so i'd like to know what you think about baiting the absorb and teasing them with the CS. The threat of the CS has done me greater than the CS itself has.

You're absolutely right that the charge shot threat is often bigger than its bite. I know some people love the surprise factor of not having that flashing arm cannon, and that's a fair tactic as well, but I like having it as much as possible to change the dynamic.
The flip side is like any true feint in fighting, if you don't come good on the feint some of the time, they won't buy into it. So you must occasionally just toss it out there, preferably when you can get it back quickly.
There is a range where missile->charge shot is a true combo. That is the murder range on the pk kid.

That crazy 0 -> 50% string RC taught me does work on Ness incidentally, I got some jaw dropping mileage out of it yesterday. dash attack -> cross up-air -> jump -> b-air -> b-air. Really upped my game.
Still trying to land those d-air strings. Many hundred attempts in training. D-air can actually true combo into itself...! This is probably old news for some. The hitboxes are weird and all varying priority. 14-10-11.

Link has some of the least landing lag from his aerials in the entire game. And he can cross up with some of them. Basterd. Better to use up-B before shield my opinion and try and get him with the invincibility. IF he screws up his spacing.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I'm pretty sure Link's N-air out prioritizes Samus' F-tilt, but I could be wrong, U-tilt and D-tilt I don't know, I'll try them all out on the next good Link player I face.

There is no priority between an air and ground move. Air moves are transient and will go through other active hit boxes, this is why you can often trade air moves with other players. In the case of link's nair and our ftilt, depending how the frames line up (link's sex kick is a hit box for the vast majority of the animation) we'll either trade or get beat out.

 

[RoachCake]

There is no priority between an air and ground move. Air moves are transient and will go through other active hit boxes, this is why you can often trade air moves with other players. In the case of link's nair and our ftilt, depending how the frames line up (link's sex kick is a hit box for the vast majority of the animation) we'll either trade or get beat out.

Ah, right.
I was able to test it out just now, and you can trade hits with all tilts. I'd say the U-tilt trade is the the best though, because it knocks Link farther away then the others, giving you some time to charge your charge shot.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Ah, right.
I was able to test it out just now, and you can trade hits with all tilts. I'd say the U-tilt trade is the the best though, because it knocks Link farther away then the others, giving you some time to charge your charge shot.

Additionally, Utilt can be a kill move on airborne opponents which makes it an even better trade at higher percentages. A good thing to keep in mind on Links who play air heavy.

 

[Afro Smash]

I'm thought I'd go through all characters and list how good/bad the match up, feel free to disagree!

30/70
40/60
60/40
60/40
40/60
50/50
60/40
40/60
50/50
50/50
50/50
50/50
20/80
70/30
50/50
30/70
40/60
50/50
60/40
70/30
60/40
50/50
80/20
60/40
60/40
40/60
40/60
30/70
70/30
50/50
60/40
40/60
50/50
50/50
40/60
50/50
50/50
40/60
50/50
40/60
40/60
60/40
50/50
50/50
50/50
30/70

Favourable: 13
Unfavourable: 16
Neutral: 19

Pretty even all around, just those favourable match ups are vs none of the top tiers.

 

[RoachCake]

These are the ones I have to disagree with, all the others are pretty close to how I would put them.

20/80

There's no way Sheik beats Samus this badly, I know the matchup can be hard, but it's definitely not close to impossible. I'd say 35/65.

30/70

This may sound ridiculous, but, I honestly feel this matchup is close to even.

80/20

What? Mind explaining how this matchup is basically hopeless for Dedede?

 

[FlAlex]

I'm thought I'd go through all characters and list how good/bad the match up, feel free to disagree!

I take it the number on the right is the opponent's number and ours is on the left?

I'll come back later to add my own opinion.

PS: Off topic, but was I the only one to receive an update on my WiiU version of Smash4? I cannot remember what the first version was but now mine says 1.0.2. Just wanted to check.

Edit: according to IGN, the only thing added were a couple of stages for 8-player smash.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/29/new-smash-bros-wii-u-update-adds-15-8-player-stages

 

[Afro Smash]

Sheik eh, I guess it might be closer to 30/70, but Fast Falling + Bouncing Fish means she can easily dodge Samus's projectiles (apart from close Range CS), then she can apply immense amounts of pressure and constantly be up in Samus's space, where Samus is at her worst, and Samus is usually too laggy to punish most of the things she does. And finally you cant really edgeguard Sheik with her Vanish, which is where Samus usually picks up a lot of kills.

ZSS p much the same as Sheik, except a lot more SH aerial pressure and can juggle Samus a lot with Samus being floaty. I'd say the only saving grace is they cant really ever use paralyzer for risk of getting blasted with CS.

Dedede is heavy which means we can combo him really easily, he cant use his gordos, and if he does they will always be blasted back, Zair beats his F Tilt, so this basically forces him to approch via air which becomes predictable and punishable.

And yes @ FlAlex they released an update to allow more stages to be used in 8 player Smash