-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?
- Thread starter itsthebigfoot
- Start date
- Status
ZxChrono
Smash Journeyman
yeah he can, its like 60% from one side of FD to the other but thats banned as well at most tournaments, only the running chaingrab is allowed i believe.
MK26
Smash Master
DKs, we're discussing you in our matchup thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032
Its a full matchup guide, based on:
Character: (Duh)
Difficulty rating: (Your rating of the match)
Overview: (What general strategies does this character employ against a Kirby? Does he camp? Go all out offensive?)
Pros+Cons: (What does this character have going for him? Weight? Speed? How about things we can take advantage of?)
Watch out for: (This character's favourite moves and when he'll use them)
How to win: (What Kirby needs to do to beat this character)
Spit out or Swallow?: (Do we want to copy his ability or keep the inhale for Kirbycides/under-stage spits?)
What NOT to do: (If you want to lose, go right ahead)
Stages: (Which to counterpick? Which to avoid?)
Synopsis: (Tl;Dr version)
But the focus is on stagecounterpicks/bans and DK's favourite moves
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032
Its a full matchup guide, based on:
Character: (Duh)
Difficulty rating: (Your rating of the match)
Overview: (What general strategies does this character employ against a Kirby? Does he camp? Go all out offensive?)
Pros+Cons: (What does this character have going for him? Weight? Speed? How about things we can take advantage of?)
Watch out for: (This character's favourite moves and when he'll use them)
How to win: (What Kirby needs to do to beat this character)
Spit out or Swallow?: (Do we want to copy his ability or keep the inhale for Kirbycides/under-stage spits?)
What NOT to do: (If you want to lose, go right ahead)
Stages: (Which to counterpick? Which to avoid?)
Synopsis: (Tl;Dr version)
But the focus is on stagecounterpicks/bans and DK's favourite moves
i1337
Smash Ace
Lul.
10luls
10luls
ExCeL 52
Smash Lord
100-0 Ddd's favor.
Linguini
Smash Master
After a long hiatus, im back to brawl.
expect to see me ****** in FL with the ape as soon as i brush my rust off.
and new vids.
expect to see me ****** in FL with the ape as soon as i brush my rust off.
and new vids.
gantrain05
Smash Master
AndrewCarlson
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2008
- Messages
- 367
Donkey Kong is not 60:40 versus Marth. Our boards had the ratio as 50:50 at worst for Marth. Here is our summary.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
The difference between 50-50 and 60-40 isn't that huge. Different boards are bound to have different opinions, and I've seen much, much larger differences in numbers between some characters.
My personal experiences tell me its either even or a very slight DK advantage, so I don't have a problem with either ratio.
Donkey Bong
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 610
have IC's or pit been covered?
ness would also be a good one to cover, i've heard about the grab release shenanigans that we have on him, but its hard to grab the little ***** when hes fairing all over the place
yoshi would be good, it feels like it should be an easy matchup, but thats far from the truth.
ness would also be a good one to cover, i've heard about the grab release shenanigans that we have on him, but its hard to grab the little ***** when hes fairing all over the place
yoshi would be good, it feels like it should be an easy matchup, but thats far from the truth.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
I second doing either Ness or Lucas. The Lucas boards have the match rated as 8-2 our advantage, but you really need to actually know the matchup. I recently lost to Okins Lucas with my DK, and I would really like to improve on that.
We need to re-discuss for the reason alone that standing infinites are no longer being allowed so that is a reconsideration reason. Plus I believe without the standing infinite it becomes a quite a bit harder, mainly Ness Lucas I believe to be easier than Ness.
I play Pierre (a regionally unknown yet..) considerably PRO Lucas player alot.
I'd say 60:40 DK's advantage. I don't feel like going into all the detail right now, but i will if we so choose to discuss Lucas next.
I'd say 60:40 DK's advantage. I don't feel like going into all the detail right now, but i will if we so choose to discuss Lucas next.
The Pope
Smash Apprentice
So are we still talking about Peach?
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
Well, as I said, I played Okins Lucas last tourney I went to. It really made me feel it was Lucas advantage, but that could have just been him being Okin.
Maybe you just don't understand the matchup, most of the time knowing a matchup will help. I lost to NoR4U's sonic and it took me I was like WTF do I do to that.
But that doesn't mean it's a bad matchup, just have to know how to fight the match itself before calling it a bad matchup.
But that doesn't mean it's a bad matchup, just have to know how to fight the match itself before calling it a bad matchup.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
Yeah, I really didn't know the matchup, but even after getting some more practice in on it I still feel its a little rough. I can see it being even I suppose, but it definately isn't as good a match for DK as it was thought to be a few months ago. I feel like it deserves to be rediscussed, regardless of whos advantage it is.
lets just talk about lucas now.
One of LA's top players is Pierre. He consistently makes top 5 only using him. I have a lot of experience vs Lucas, so i think i can contribute to this one. To get started, i find lucas to be similarly to DK, in that they both have alot of gimmicks, but once you understand them its alot easier to not get ***** by them.
PK fire ecan be used safely vs DK, but its nothing to be scared of, since it only does like 8% and u should be hit by 1 out of every 5 probably if they're sneaky with delaying the timing. PK Thunder can hurt DK's recovey, if you gets the tail to combo off, especially if it stage spikes, but usually DK should be able to grab the ledge before its setup. PK Freeze/Maget are genuinely bad moves and don't serve an independent use vs DK beyond lucky flashyness =]
Lucas's D.air is his best tool vs DK. He'll full jump around you while using it, and usually go for smashes (especially if the d.air trips, which it often does). Elsehow, he can respond with his great Jabs or F.tilt.
His Nair is also really great for shield pressure and working his way behind, which can lead to an uptilt or 2. At low damages, D.throw combos into UpTilt, so you have to be ready to airdodge/jump immediately after.
If he's caught in b.airs you can usually stick him with 3 in a row, but he'll DI away and try to recover from a point, where you're not safe anymore to B.air. but you can always edgehog to ledgehop Giant Punch).
I tend to KO Lucas mostly with B.airs are mindgame'd F.smash. D.smash out of shield by the ledge is also pro, but they know how to mix up their edge-snaking with that extremely fast ledgehop-F.air, can be dangerous. They also can ledgehop with D.airs, if you're too close, and send you off the ledge right after w/ whatever they can fit.
I usually get killed by a F.smash from D.air/SexKick (but its avoidable often, yet so easy to set up, yet risky to try to punish his f.tilts afterward, lol). And at really percentages his F.tilt is an excellent KO tool, as well as his throw.
Lucas is most dangerous when he gets in your grill. Learn how to deal with d.air, and get back to where you can outspace him. Don't roll to avoid PK Fires, sidestep or shield them and be patient in approaching him with tilts. B.air, B.air, B.air. Don't make it obvious...when you u've got the chance just b.air the **** out of him. If he's DI's upward, b.air to upair.
I'd say DK has a slight advantage. Pretty much attrituted to the reach. Lucas being slightly light doesn't help him much either. But DK's weight surprisingly isn't as helpful in this matchup as others, soley because Lucas's smash attacks are almost broken. (watchout for D.smash when he's on a platform above), but all in all neither has anything really 'abusable' on each other, and its a fair fight, tilted in favor of DK's reach. 60:40, maybe 55:45 (depending by what definition u give the numbers)
One of LA's top players is Pierre. He consistently makes top 5 only using him. I have a lot of experience vs Lucas, so i think i can contribute to this one. To get started, i find lucas to be similarly to DK, in that they both have alot of gimmicks, but once you understand them its alot easier to not get ***** by them.
PK fire ecan be used safely vs DK, but its nothing to be scared of, since it only does like 8% and u should be hit by 1 out of every 5 probably if they're sneaky with delaying the timing. PK Thunder can hurt DK's recovey, if you gets the tail to combo off, especially if it stage spikes, but usually DK should be able to grab the ledge before its setup. PK Freeze/Maget are genuinely bad moves and don't serve an independent use vs DK beyond lucky flashyness =]
Lucas's D.air is his best tool vs DK. He'll full jump around you while using it, and usually go for smashes (especially if the d.air trips, which it often does). Elsehow, he can respond with his great Jabs or F.tilt.
His Nair is also really great for shield pressure and working his way behind, which can lead to an uptilt or 2. At low damages, D.throw combos into UpTilt, so you have to be ready to airdodge/jump immediately after.
If he's caught in b.airs you can usually stick him with 3 in a row, but he'll DI away and try to recover from a point, where you're not safe anymore to B.air. but you can always edgehog to ledgehop Giant Punch).
I tend to KO Lucas mostly with B.airs are mindgame'd F.smash. D.smash out of shield by the ledge is also pro, but they know how to mix up their edge-snaking with that extremely fast ledgehop-F.air, can be dangerous. They also can ledgehop with D.airs, if you're too close, and send you off the ledge right after w/ whatever they can fit.
I usually get killed by a F.smash from D.air/SexKick (but its avoidable often, yet so easy to set up, yet risky to try to punish his f.tilts afterward, lol). And at really percentages his F.tilt is an excellent KO tool, as well as his throw.
Lucas is most dangerous when he gets in your grill. Learn how to deal with d.air, and get back to where you can outspace him. Don't roll to avoid PK Fires, sidestep or shield them and be patient in approaching him with tilts. B.air, B.air, B.air. Don't make it obvious...when you u've got the chance just b.air the **** out of him. If he's DI's upward, b.air to upair.
I'd say DK has a slight advantage. Pretty much attrituted to the reach. Lucas being slightly light doesn't help him much either. But DK's weight surprisingly isn't as helpful in this matchup as others, soley because Lucas's smash attacks are almost broken. (watchout for D.smash when he's on a platform above), but all in all neither has anything really 'abusable' on each other, and its a fair fight, tilted in favor of DK's reach. 60:40, maybe 55:45 (depending by what definition u give the numbers)
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
Yeah, I'm really surprised by the strength of his smashes. I guess I can see this match being slightly DK favor once you learn it, I got ***** when I didn't know the character but after learning it I did better, I just need to keep working on it a little more.
Does Lucas have any combos into his smashes? I think I've seen him jab to Fsmash before, but I wasn't sure if that was escapable or not. It should also be noted that your shouldn't take him to Brinstar, its one of his best stages too. I didn't know that last time and made the worst counterpick choice ever.
Does Lucas have any combos into his smashes? I think I've seen him jab to Fsmash before, but I wasn't sure if that was escapable or not. It should also be noted that your shouldn't take him to Brinstar, its one of his best stages too. I didn't know that last time and made the worst counterpick choice ever.
TheNix
Smash Journeyman
Well, if you fail to tech the dair, he can d-tilt lock and force you into a charged smash or something. But that's only if you don't tech, and I don't think DK tumbles from it until like 90%.
I haven't fought a good Lucas, so I can't contribute much. I've used him a bit, but I'm no master, and I wouldn't have any experience fighting other DKs with him either
ZxChrono
Smash Journeyman
dair to fsmash is one of his combos.
his nair if he connects it can lead up to a few follow ups but not any smashes.
i know this matchup very well since i have 3 friends who i play regularly who use lucas and in different ways and ill put my input later, i have to get ready for work right now.
MasterCheeze
Smash Journeyman
The last hit of Lucas' Dair spikes you, so don't get caught in it offstage. >.<
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
Subscribing so i can contribute to the MU i know
Also, ppl on the Lucas boards say this is Lucas 25-75 DK. DK can cargo release to D-smash when lucas is at 95 % and it will most likely kill him (I don't know kill %s too well)
Also, ppl on the Lucas boards say this is Lucas 25-75 DK. DK can cargo release to D-smash when lucas is at 95 % and it will most likely kill him (I don't know kill %s too well)
The only Lucas i can remember playing was Oats. They were all friendlies and i did win them all but i dont think its 75-25 in DK's favor. Id say 60-40 in DK's favor.
Although now that CBK mentioned, keeping your down smash fresh would bump this up to 65-35/70-30 in DK's favor.
Although now that CBK mentioned, keeping your down smash fresh would bump this up to 65-35/70-30 in DK's favor.
Tujex
Smash Ace
I played Lucas for a while in my search for characters. Fsmash comes out fast ans has stupid high knockback for its quickness...watch out for it. Upsmash is also ridiculously strong with a hitbox that his up, to the sides, and a little bit under him. It also lingers after the initial hexagonal sparkle thing disappears so don't rush in until your sure its safe. But that can be seen coming from six miles away. Dair is ****, and makes it safe for him to move about the stage. Nair is the same, and Fair is almost as good as Bair when it comes to Lucas' air game. His Uair isn;t as strong as Ness' so....its fairly useless besides low% juggles.
His grab reach is pretty far, PK Thunder gimps recovery, his tilt game is crazy, his jab combo is amazing....but he stills falls short of DK in terms of chances to win (when equally skilled players fight).
His grab reach is pretty far, PK Thunder gimps recovery, his tilt game is crazy, his jab combo is amazing....but he stills falls short of DK in terms of chances to win (when equally skilled players fight).
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
I love DK mains, they're a funny bunch.
If you want to give the match-up numbers, I'd say 60-40 in DK's favor, but I personally just like to say that DK has a clear advantage. I've only played Jmex and Bigfoot (one in friendlies, other in tournament) and I'd say your best approach/bet is the bair. Grab release to dsmash is a complete *****, and it totally makes the match-up a little one-sided.
The best thing Lucas has against a good DK is nair. Dair can be punished with DK's utilt and proper spacing. Not to mention, a ****ed up Dair can lead to an easy grab for the DK, because not many Lucas' not how to perfectly auto-cancel the dair (I don't do it consistently.) So watch out for the nair. Keeping the Lucas outside of your face is going to be your strategy of choice, since so many of his moves come out so quickly, the Lucas player rarely has to worry about you getting a quick jab in when Lucas' comes out in 2 frames. Swap him away with a ftilt, and then proceed to bair. His only option then would be to PK fire or something, because the little guy has nothing against high priority aerial approaches. I guess at a specific point, the Lucas is going to be worried about the grab more than anything and you can play into that fear by baiting him away or to you and just giving him the donkey punch.
I don't have a counter-pick stage for DKs. I was actually pretty wrecked on Brinstar by Bigfoot because of the low ceiling and small level boundaries (lower % kills.) So I would say you guys are safe, level-wise. In terms of levels you can take a Lucas to, the most ****ed up ones by far would be Lylat or Yoshi's Island. I don't know how comfortable you guys are with those stages, but yeah. Yoshi's Island is a horrible Lucas stage because of recovering with PK thunder on the right side of the stage is glitched, and because the uneven terrain messes with auto-cancelling. Similar thing with Lylat.
If you want to give the match-up numbers, I'd say 60-40 in DK's favor, but I personally just like to say that DK has a clear advantage. I've only played Jmex and Bigfoot (one in friendlies, other in tournament) and I'd say your best approach/bet is the bair. Grab release to dsmash is a complete *****, and it totally makes the match-up a little one-sided.
The best thing Lucas has against a good DK is nair. Dair can be punished with DK's utilt and proper spacing. Not to mention, a ****ed up Dair can lead to an easy grab for the DK, because not many Lucas' not how to perfectly auto-cancel the dair (I don't do it consistently.) So watch out for the nair. Keeping the Lucas outside of your face is going to be your strategy of choice, since so many of his moves come out so quickly, the Lucas player rarely has to worry about you getting a quick jab in when Lucas' comes out in 2 frames. Swap him away with a ftilt, and then proceed to bair. His only option then would be to PK fire or something, because the little guy has nothing against high priority aerial approaches. I guess at a specific point, the Lucas is going to be worried about the grab more than anything and you can play into that fear by baiting him away or to you and just giving him the donkey punch.
I don't have a counter-pick stage for DKs. I was actually pretty wrecked on Brinstar by Bigfoot because of the low ceiling and small level boundaries (lower % kills.) So I would say you guys are safe, level-wise. In terms of levels you can take a Lucas to, the most ****ed up ones by far would be Lylat or Yoshi's Island. I don't know how comfortable you guys are with those stages, but yeah. Yoshi's Island is a horrible Lucas stage because of recovering with PK thunder on the right side of the stage is glitched, and because the uneven terrain messes with auto-cancelling. Similar thing with Lylat.
Cheeri-Oats
Smash Lord
Nah
Nah, I'm such an egotist, I search for my name on Smashboards, and saw it mentioned here so I had to say something.
So thank you, Jumex.
Nah, I'm such an egotist, I search for my name on Smashboards, and saw it mentioned here so I had to say something.
So thank you, Jumex.
itsthebigfoot
Smash Lord
oats, i didn't do it in that tournament cause it kills the fun, but dk infinites lucas with the cargo, it isn't just dsmashes.
one thing to note is lucas has ko problems against dk
i think i made it to like 210 against you on brinstar
one thing to note is lucas has ko problems against dk
i think i made it to like 210 against you on brinstar
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
so it's only 60-40, even with cargo grab-release dsmash? hmmm i'd say more like 75-25 DK
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
I think Lucas can avoid the infinite.
And watch out for Lucas Upsmash, with it's enormous lingering Hitbox that kills Dk very early
And watch out for Lucas Upsmash, with it's enormous lingering Hitbox that kills Dk very early
MasterCheeze
Smash Journeyman
The only way I ever get hit by Lucas' Up-Smash is if he gets me with it when I pull myself on the ledge and he ran up to me. Either way, Down-B will take care if him if you don't wanna get up close.
Mith_
Smash Champion
yeap, since its vertical =/
ftilt, down b and cargo tricks take care of lucas easy. watch out for his dtilt lock though.
Drizzt6195
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2008
- Messages
- 117
You can Fsmash him out of his Upsmash with good spacing and timing
daisho
Smash Lord
you don't need good spacing to do that... you need to have half a brain... teh guy sends super psycic powers out of his head, he needs a couple of seconds to recharge.
- Status