matchup thread!

[KingsGambit27]

Don't call it a comeback. But I don't know how the Ivysaur MU is Favorable for Sheik, can someone explain what the advantages are?

 

[Captain Faceroll]

Don't call it a comeback. But I don't know how the Ivysaur MU is Favorable for Sheik, can someone explain what the advantages are?

On phone so this'll be brief, but basically you can combo ivy super well off of throws. It feels like sometimes they'll have good di, but you can follow up anyway. Besides that if you needle well, you can actually edgeguard ivy, along with you interrupting her tether and such.

Her edgeguarding is dumb and if she camps it can be hard to get in though, so you need to get around that.

 

[KingsGambit27]

On phone so this'll be brief, but basically you can combo ivy super well off of throws. It feels like sometimes they'll have good di, but you can follow up anyway. Besides that if you needle well, you can actually edgeguard ivy, along with you interrupting her tether and such.

Her edgeguarding is dumb and if she camps it can be hard to get in though, so you need to get around that.

There is a decent Ivy player around here, and I know that Ivy edge-guards shiek pretty well for quick damage/kills. What extended combos besides DThrow/BThrow > FTilt > Fair are there on Ivy? Is she also susceptible to juggles? Thanks for the Needles tip, I'll try to use that more than trying to Bair offstage.

The other thing is that when Ivy is recovering high and being all floaty its hard to reach her in the air. This is mainly from decent DI and her repeated Dair recovery so that she can save her tether. My guess would be to pick a stage with platforms so that I can jump up and threaten with Bairs, or is it a better option to try to juggle in your opinion?

 

[Captain Faceroll]

In situations like that, if she's coming from the upper right/left corners, you can always try to reverse needle cancel -> bair spam. That should outrange her attacks, and if she's recovering she most likely isn't going to be attacking you anyway.

You can also try getting on a platform and doing standing needles, it'll interrupt her forward momentum a bit and make it harder for her to recover.

As for tether recoveries, if you can't/don't feel comfortable going off stage to hit her, you can always just hold ledge and attack her reel in. Wait for her to reel in, then ledgehop slap or upair depending on positioning.

I think she's pretty easy to juggle tbh, tilt -> slap -> slap happens often I feel like, as well as just general sheiky things.

I'm going to reiterate on how powerful bair really is. It has such strong range and power that you can honestly just wall out slower/floatier characters with it. You can full jump rising bair to falling bair, and Ivy can't really do a lot about it. You can't do that against faster characters because they'll be able to run under it, but against ivy it can work well.

 

[KinGly]

I'm a mario main looking for falcon and marth counters. I've looked at the pit threads and they claim that both those match ups are 55:45. Does anyone know the MU ratio for sheik against those two?

 

[Captain Faceroll]

Defininitely in sheik's favor, but I'd say slightly less than in melee.

Probably 60/40 for falcon and 55/45 for marth, but that's just me.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

-Wipes away dust- Is this thread relevant anymore?

 

[Captain Faceroll]

This thread is the most relevant of all time. Although I now think Marth sheik is either even or slightly in marth's favor at high levels of play.

I don't play that much pm anymore though so I probably can't provide real-world applications, just theorycrafting :/

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Hmmk. I was thinking of making a cute match up chart if these match ups still hold true.

 

[Captain Faceroll]

You can try, but it's so hard to get accurate matchup charts

 

[KinGly]

if yall want something to talk about, how's the sheik kirby matchup? I don't really play sheik, but I just play everyone against my friends kirby.

 

[Captain Faceroll]

Depends on how cheesy the kirby wants to play it. Kirby dies pretty easily off of d tilt -> slap/uair, as well as off of grab -> slap/uair, but getting those are honestly pretty hard.

If kirby crouches the whole time, idk what you can do in response to that. Kirby's d tilt is actually godlike. Conveniently for me, I've never played a kirby that crouched the whole time, just ones that spammed dash attack and herp derp up b in neutral rofl

I don't see there being a huge advantage one way or another, so I feel like it's even or slightly in one of their favors.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

this thread is horribly outdated

 

[RedEyesWhiteSwaggin]

The below list is completely tentative so let's discuss/debate!

edit 12/2/14 (first 3.5 update)
DK from favorable to even
ZSS from unfavorable to even

What is the reasoning here? DK got a notably worse recovery and a LOT less silly disjoints/intangible hitboxes. He got easier to gimp and his nair/fair are less crazy. I don't see any reason for this MU to have gotten harder.

Is the general consensus that ZSS got worse in 3.5? The grab seemed like a huge buff to me. The paralyzer change doesn't seem like a big deal. All the ZSSs would just dash cancel it previously so I knew where they were going/what they'd do.

I don't really agree with Puff/ICs/M2 being hard or Squirtle not being even but I don't have much 3.5 experience.