MD/VA Power Rankings: Updated 8/14/12

[Omni]

Or you can pick MK and try to place above 13th at a 20 man local.

 

[SuperSayianRenan]

Sure. I'll play mk from now on until I get a hang of him. I feel confident with him except for Up-b issues lol. Maybe I can place higher than 13th in a 40 man tourny :8

 

[KORNNNNN~]

..good luck

 

[OmniOstrich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAH2woFZ9jk&t=3m50s

Bring back the hair Logic :'(

 

[Deez.]

This thread is so hilarious... MK isn't easy to learn Boss. But he is the easiest to win with... he has a lot more options than other characters do. But the **** Omni tells me abput isn't basic **** the average player would know. So it does actually take time to learn that *** lol..I'm still tryna to learn him as we speak.

MK mains do have a right to be upset tho.. for the fact there bread & butter is out the window now.. MK didn't have to actually learn every single match up. he could literally just out space and nado him to death to win a set.. #Jussayin

But what do I know i'll say I don't care if hes banned or not..still gonna play the game because its fun.

 

[boss8]

exactly with spacing and nado...wtf can anyone do?

all u hafe to do is use it wisely...

what? are u mk mains gonna be like...(ok u try mk and see how it is)

 

[Omni]

What people really don't understand is that maining MK has its advantages and disadvantages.

The advantage is clear: You're the best character in the game. You have no bad match-ups.

Disadvantage: Every single person knows how to play against Metaknight. And there many, many top level Metaknight's. Therefore, if you don't fall into that upper 5% of skilled MK's your MK ain't worth nuthin'. Also, you have to play characters that you may be unfamiliar with that have a ******** amount of EXP against your character. Examples are players like Boss' Luigi, Nicole's Peach, NickRiddle's ZSS, or TKD's Fox.

So many people complain about MK, but I know if 90% of them used him they wouldn't be able to hold a cup to me. Ditto or not. And the funny part is that many have tried and failed, but most people won't admit it.

 

[boss8]

omni does make some points....

 

[Kenrawr]

 

[slikvik]

mk never grabbed released me. i got no beef with him

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

He nadoed me and my arrows couldn't pierce it so I got no beef with him being gone.

 

[Deez.]

Lol MK won't be gone for long... just don't see it.

 

[Matador]

They won't unban him...URC has too much pride.

People just won't use Unity if worse comes to worst.

MKs being forced to learn new characters kinda sucks this late in the metagame, but it's kinda similar to non-MKs being forced to learn match-ups to cover their bad ones.

MK never really needs to do that. Just some food for thought.

Edit: I meant characters. Learn new characters to cover bad match-ups.

 

[Coney]

i had to learn an entirely new character to even have a shot at beating good metaknights, because he won that matchup too, only a bit less so

again though, probably won't matter. the people that want to run URS will, and the ones who won't...won't. shame there's such a divide in the community.

 

[GimR]

What people really don't understand is that maining MK has its advantages and disadvantages.

The advantage is clear: You're the best character in the game. You have no bad match-ups.

Disadvantage: Every single person knows how to play against Metaknight. And there many, many top level Metaknight's. Therefore, if you don't fall into that upper 5% of skilled MK's your MK ain't worth nuthin'. Also, you have to play characters that you may be unfamiliar with that have a ******** amount of EXP against your character. Examples are players like Boss' Luigi, Nicole's Peach, NickRiddle's ZSS, or TKD's Fox.

So many people complain about MK, but I know if 90% of them used him they wouldn't be able to hold a cup to me. Ditto or not. And the funny part is that many have tried and failed, but most people won't admit it.

you're forgetting that MK players just have to learn match ups. It's character vs. character for him. It's not even player vs. player for your character like it is for most every other character. MK dittos are the only time a MK player really has to read his opponent TBH. Look at Jason. He'll be losing when he tries to Player vs. player an opponent. so then he goes, "oh yeah, my character is broken" and starts playing character vs. character by camping so much that the opponent has to put him or herself in a horrible position to even get close to him and then he wins because of this.

I've noticed most everyone complaining about the ban is a MK main. It's hard to believe that you guys aren't bias at all in your griping. BTW, about earlier, I said that I personally like him being banned because it makes the game fresher and more entertaining. I never said that it was a good reason to ban MK. It was just my opinion, no need to argue against it.

 

[B0NK]

Even if people don't use unity, doesn't mean they won't ban MK. (Gripes with standing infinites, stagelist, ledge grabs, suicide rules, etc.)

NY/NJ is pretty much going to have MK ban only tourneys after Jan. 9th. They are already having them now, although they shouldn't at all until Apex is over imo.

Personally I'm neutral in that I will play on any rule-set, but I lean more towards pro-ban. (No point in saying why, if the characters only weakness is he over-centralizes the metagame and rulesets, that's not much of a weakness to me).

Also why is anyone referencing 3S and MvC2 when people can just as easily reference ST:HDRemix (And MK's Planking, to ST Akuma's air fireball, etc.)? aka this is a different community, a different game, and has no relevance in the MK debate.

 

[Pitzer]

I mean, they tried so hard to compensate, the fact that brawl wasn't really designed for competitive play. With all this rules that limit a lot of functions characters can use. I.e Planking and the LGL, which hurts, Rob, Pit and some other characters that need to ledge to even deal damage. I mean, time out's happen a lot cause of the way brawl was designed it's a slow built game, not as fast as it's previous prequel. How much movement can go on in brawl vs how much movement can go in melee in like 45 seconds is like not even comparable.

They, can't compare Brawl to Street Fighter, because brawl isn't as linear as Street Fighter. Street Fighter 2 you only had like two options, Block or Jump, in terms of defending yourself.

Personally, Mk being banned does benefit my character a whole lot, however, maybe they should have tried getting rid of some stages before they took this major decision before hand.

It just saddens me that the brawl community might/will be looked upon as more of a joke than it already is because of this action.

Also, in every game it's gonna happen. The players who want to win will pick the best and abuse that characters strong points.

I.e


3rd Strike: Yun, Chun
SSF4AE: Yun, Yang, Fei
Marvel 3: Wolverine, Wesker, Phoenix, Taskmaster
Blazblue: Makoto, Noel, Jin, Hazama

 

[boss8]

The only thing i hate about MK is the fact....

yea u can read him and watever....but u cant punish him for it cause he has something else up his sleeve...

 

[B0NK]

I understand that, and from my characters point of view, I too would have much rather they get rid of Rainbow and Brinstar even if MK was still in the game.

But it's hard to say it's okay to simply have a lower ledge grab limit for MK, debate whether MK is too strong on Rainbow and Brinstar (compare to Wario and G&W), scrooging rules, propose rules like raising the timer, and in general keep finding ways to nerf him with our ruleset.

His match-ups don't even concern me as much, it's how over-centralizing he is, and simply how our rulesets revolve solely around him. (Also, this doesn't mean I support the URC ruleset at all, URC Ruleset =/= The only MK ban ruleset)

Sure MK with 35 ledge grab limit, scrooging rule, no rainbow and brinstar is deal-able but why should we have such rules just for one character? (Only other similarity in this game is D3 and walk-off/permanant wall stages, but I honestly think MK can fight him on even those stages except for Shadow Moses anyways lol)

And on a personal level, I'm glad I'll be able to see Bum, Wes, D1, and Jash at more brawl tourneys lol. They all said they're coming back after Jan. 9th to brawl simply because MK is banned.

EDIT: @Boss: Just like he can set up a frame trap with just his forward roll if you did anything but predicted the roll? and Nado covers a lot of options while being almost safe lol, but that depends on the match-up =P

 

[Matador]

It just saddens me that the brawl community might/will be looked upon as more of a joke than it already is because of this action.

Who cares tho? Those *****s over at SRK find a reason to hate EVERYthing. The people that matter won't be bothered all that much by this...especially if it does what it's supposed to do and increases variety.

 

[EPsilon933]

SRK posted news on their front page about the red carding events that happened a week after GENESIS 2 and they didn't post a thing about GENESIS 2

 

[NO-IDea]

What people really don't understand is that maining MK has its advantages and disadvantages.

The advantage is clear: You're the best character in the game. You have no bad match-ups.

Disadvantage: Every single person knows how to play against Metaknight. And there many, many top level Metaknight's. Therefore, if you don't fall into that upper 5% of skilled MK's your MK ain't worth nuthin'. Also, you have to play characters that you may be unfamiliar with that have a ******** amount of EXP against your character. Examples are players like Boss' Luigi, Nicole's Peach, NickRiddle's ZSS, or TKD's Fox.

So many people complain about MK, but I know if 90% of them used him they wouldn't be able to hold a cup to me. Ditto or not. And the funny part is that many have tried and failed, but most people won't admit it.

You're dumb. There's A LOT OF PLAYERS that could easily hold cup to you or be better than you had they started MK like you did. Your faulty argument of "Oh, I'd be on 'insert high level player here' level if I started 'insert character here'" applies to everybody who's a high calibur player of their character.

Not many people have tried, and therefore not many people have failed. Just because you see people mingle with MK doesn't mean they tried or devoted time into learning the character. The few that have tried, well there are a decent amount of success stories out there.

Exclude Logic tho. Not making fun of him or anything, but it's clear he's an Olimar Main First. He's only been on MK for little less than a year by now?

you're forgetting that MK players just have to learn match ups. It's character vs. character for him. It's not even player vs. player for your character like it is for most every other character. MK dittos are the only time a MK player really has to read his opponent TBH. Look at Jason. He'll be losing when he tries to Player vs. player an opponent. so then he goes, "oh yeah, my character is broken" and starts playing character vs. character by camping so much that the opponent has to put him or herself in a horrible position to even get close to him and then he wins because of this.

I've noticed most everyone complaining about the ban is a MK main. It's hard to believe that you guys aren't bias at all in your griping. BTW, about earlier, I said that I personally like him being banned because it makes the game fresher and more entertaining. I never said that it was a good reason to ban MK. It was just my opinion, no need to argue against it.

What a faulty *** argument crying over disadvantages of being a MK main.

But, to disagree with your last point, I'm still anti-ban. Deal with the hand you choose to give yourself. Or don't play the game competitively. Omni's points were stupid though.

 

[Seagull Joe]

What people really don't understand is that maining MK has its advantages and disadvantages.

The advantage is clear: You're the best character in the game. You have no bad match-ups.

Disadvantage: Every single person knows how to play against Metaknight. And there many, many top level Metaknight's. Therefore, if you don't fall into that upper 5% of skilled MK's your MK ain't worth nuthin'. Also, you have to play characters that you may be unfamiliar with that have a ******** amount of EXP against your character. Examples are players like Boss' Luigi, Nicole's Peach, NickRiddle's ZSS, or TKD's Fox.

So many people complain about MK, but I know if 90% of them used him they wouldn't be able to hold a cup to me. Ditto or not. And the funny part is that many have tried and failed, but most people won't admit it.

Well having no bad matchups is one thing, but it still comes down to player skill. Like I've learned to do that Nairo glide and Japanese backwards SL thingy that Rain did to Mikehaze and that improved my skill level slightly (Even just slightly is still better then nothing). Learning new adaptations, skills, mindgames, and maneuvers can benefit everyone. That doesn't tend to be character dependent.

The sad thing is that I would likely perform the same if I went all rather then use . I just have more pride and practiced a lot more with . Doesn't mean my is bad because I know matchups with him and can use him quite easily since I practiced said character for an extended period of time. I've used for a long time and mine is quite decent. If I practiced more with him compared to then I wouldn't have a substantial amount of success because I would then need to learn character matchups. I don't care what character you are, matchups still fall within the necessary to learn category. can obviously exploit certain things, but a smart player will ultimately overcome exploits unless it is borderline stalling.

If you practice any character then your limitations of how well you will do depend on your skill first and foremost and secondly your character's flaws. Take for an example. Verm can use him extraordinarily well and can beat a ton of people as evidenced by his successes, but his character can still be exploited so easily. I have this problem with because of his flaws and . Whether people want to accept it or not, indeed has flaws like every character. He just has less, which is why he is the best character.

 

[Omni]

you're forgetting that MK players just have to learn match ups. It's character vs. character for him. It's not even player vs. player for your character like it is for most every other character. MK dittos are the only time a MK player really has to read his opponent TBH. Look at Jason. He'll be losing when he tries to Player vs. player an opponent. so then he goes, "oh yeah, my character is broken" and starts playing character vs. character by camping so much that the opponent has to put him or herself in a horrible position to even get close to him and then he wins because of this.

Jesus, GIMR.

Just because MK is the best character in the game does not mean all matches end with only character vs. character. How are you going to argue that the player is not existent when there are top level MK's and scrub level MK's. Even if you know the match-up it doesn't mean you're going to win it. You're attempting to take out the skill level almost entirely which is silly.

I've noticed most everyone complaining about the ban is a MK main. It's hard to believe that you guys aren't bias at all in your griping. BTW, about earlier, I said that I personally like him being banned because it makes the game fresher and more entertaining. I never said that it was a good reason to ban MK. It was just my opinion, no need to argue against it.

You apparently haven't been reading. I don't care if MK is banned or not. It's the procedure that I'm more concerned about.

You're dumb. There's A LOT OF PLAYERS that could easily hold cup to you or be better than you had they started MK like you did. Your faulty argument of "Oh, I'd be on 'insert high level player here' level if I started 'insert character here'" applies to everybody who's a high calibur player of their character.

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that is the player's ability that determines how well they are in Smash. There are many MK mains but there are only a select few top MK mains. There is a reason for that gap aka skill level.

Also, stop being such a baby and flinging out ad homs. It's like you have a permanent stick stuck up your ***.

Not many people have tried, and therefore not many people have failed. Just because you see people mingle with MK doesn't mean they tried or devoted time into learning the character. The few that have tried, well there are a decent amount of success stories out there.

I'm talking based on my personal knowledge of players that I know. There's not much to dispute here from you POV.

Exclude Logic tho. Not making fun of him or anything, but it's clear he's an Olimar Main First. He's only been on MK for little less than a year by now?

No, don't. This is your misconception. Ally has been an MK main for a much smaller time than M2K, Anti, Tyrant, etc. yet his MK is one of the best. His natural talent and skill combined with experience is what separates his MK from people who have been using MK longer.

What a faulty *** argument crying over disadvantages of being a MK main.

No one is crying. Stop being a ****.

 

[boss8]

Well having no bad matchups is one thing, but it still comes down to player skill. Like I've learned to do that Nairo glide and Japanese backwards SL thingy that Rain did to Mikehaze and that improved my skill level slightly (Even just slightly is still better then nothing). Learning new adaptations, skills, mindgames, and maneuvers can benefit everyone. That doesn't tend to be character dependent.

The sad thing is that I would likely perform the same if I went all rather then use . I just have more pride and practiced a lot more with . Doesn't mean my is bad because I know matchups with him and can use him quite easily since I practiced said character for an extended period of time. I've used for a long time and mine is quite decent. If I practiced more with him compared to then I wouldn't have a substantial amount of success because I would then need to learn character matchups. I don't care what character you are, matchups still fall within the necessary to learn category. can obviously exploit certain things, but a smart player will ultimately overcome exploits unless it is borderline stalling.

If you practice any character then your limitations of how well you will do depend on your skill first and foremost and secondly your character's flaws. Take for an example. Verm can use him extraordinarily well and can beat a ton of people as evidenced by his successes, but his character can still be exploited so easily. I have this problem with because of his flaws and . Whether people want to accept it or not, indeed has flaws like every character. He just has less, which is why he is the best character.

pros-He is a GOD

cons-he is lightweight


sry the pros seem to overpower the cons xD

 

[Seagull Joe]

pros-He is a GOD

cons-he is lightweight


sry the pros seem to overpower the cons xD

Pros- He has tons of disjointed moves, many options, multiple recoveries, and multiple punishers.

Cons- Bad airspeed, lightweight, a bad grab release from a lot of characters, and one of the worst meteor cancels.

But I could do this for every character lol.

 

[NO-IDea]

Exactly. Which is why I'm saying that is the player's ability that determines how well they are in Smash. There are many MK mains but there are only a select few top MK mains. There is a reason for that gap aka skill level.

Also, stop being such a baby and flinging out ad homs. It's like you have a permanent stick stuck up your ***.

Get off your high horse, *** hole.

Again, to quote you: "So many people complain about MK, but I know if 90% of them used him they wouldn't be able to hold a cup to me. Ditto or not. And the funny part is that many have tried and failed, but most people won't admit it."

Who gives a **** about you saying "me, me, me." First off, you're not that good relative to the MKs out there. Who are you to compare yourself and put that group down? IF I bothered to quote all your other posts the past 5 pages, you've somehow managed to incorporate your skill level into your argument, or managed to put someone else down (SSR). But in the passive aggressive way. Not in the blatant EE way. You realize you're a bully right?

Secondly, the pro-ban brigade makes up the majority of the community and a significant number of high level players. At least acknowledge that before you go off trying to correlate skill level to the reason people want MK banned.

If you can't take the ad hom, then keep yourself and the personal pronouns out of your arguments. You're practically spreading your legs open.

I'm talking based on my personal knowledge of players that I know. There's not much to dispute here from you POV.

Perhaps not in this region, because there actually isn't an example in your PoV. But Kool-Aid from NE, all the MKs that have EVER been in the NJ PR who didn't originally main MK. (I'm talking back before NJ and NY combined, and even when they had a 15 man PR.)

That's only looking at it from an Atlantic North perspective. No matter what PoV you use, adopting MK is bound to give you a higher success rate, REGARDLESS of skill level. So why bother attacking a pro-ban smasher's skiill level?

No, don't. This is your misconception. Ally has been an MK main for a much smaller time than M2K, Anti, Tyrant, etc. yet his MK is one of the best. His natural talent and skill combined with experience is what separates his MK from people who have been using MK longer.

So in order to prove me wrong, you give me the BIGGEST ANOMALY to this community there is? The player who can basically play ANY high tier character with success? What kind of faulty *** argument is that?

Keep trying bro.

No one is crying. Stop being a ****.

ROFL. My bad. You aren't literally crying. Just being a bad debater.

 

[@TKbreezy]

expect me to be placing top 5 soon boys

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

in all srsness tho. IDRC about the ban either way. I never got extremely ****ed over by an MK so i don't know have that salt yet.

 

[Omni]

Not starting this again with you, Noid.

Go back to shooting missiles at CPU's and feeding my pot.

 

[boss8]

who needs airspeed when u have stupid dumb priority?

meteor cancel sucks huh? well jus uair to avoid it...

grab release? why are u getting grabbed? ur MK Dair camp/frame trap people...

 

[V1CE]

who needs airspeed when u have stupid dumb priority?

meteor cancel sucks huh? well jus uair to avoid it...

grab release? why are u getting grabbed? ur MK Dair camp/frame trap people...

DUDE WTF ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT.... LUIGIS MISFIRE IS THE BEST MOVE IN THE GAME AND ***** MK

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Still the center of attention even with him banned. smh

 

[GimR]

Jesus, GIMR.

Just because MK is the best character in the game does not mean all matches end with only character vs. character. How are you going to argue that the player is not existent when there are top level MK's and scrub level MK's. Even if you know the match-up it doesn't mean you're going to win it. You're attempting to take out the skill level almost entirely which is silly.

okay so in your opinion, in order for a character to be broken a horrible player has to be able to win with him? That's one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. Bad players are bad no matter what. They just don't have what it takes to win no matter what odds are given to them.


Mk requires certain skills like spacing and reaction time in certain cases. I said that because of his options he doesn't need to read his opponent for the most part. ( IE. Me and Vinnie always beat you with GW and then you learned the match up and it was easy for you.) It's like for every option a character has against you you have 3 options that beat it. I'm over here with GW and every thing I'm doing against you is a guess/read since you can beat all of them. You as MK just sit back and react to what I do, no reads necessary.

Think about it,

• you have a shoryuken that has to be seen coming in order to punish it. Just baiting it isn't enough. it cancels so fast that reacting to it is nearly impossible. Your shoryuken is so big that almost any move no matter how well space will be hit by this shoryuken out of shield.
• You have a multi-hit move that has more priority then almost every other move in the game. You can move around vertically and horizontally with said move. If at the right height this move autocancels perfectly when you land on the ground. This move also eats shields to the point where it shield pokes some characters when they have fresh shields. If you're using this move on some one's shield and you autocancel it you can cross them up on the left or right side to avoid a punish. if your opponent gets hit by this move it sets up for almost impossible to avoid frame traps.
• you're down and f-tilt come out as fast as jabs but are nearly twice the length of said jabs. Since none of you're moves clank and you have the biggest hitboxes your moves almost always win when they trade.
• D-tilt is so fast that it isn't possible to react to just one hit of it, you have to read it.
• F-tilt has 3 hits so even if you space it wrong on shield you get a 50/50 mix up with the 3rd hit where you can either catch your opponent dropping shield and hit him with the 3rd hit or catch him staying in shield too long and grab him. (Yes I know this is a read)
• u-air and d-air beat almost every other aerial in the game and they're quick so even if you do mess up you get a second chance. In order for an opponent to beat a d-airing mk they have to read the d-air and hit the mk right when the d-air hitbox is over. So they need perfect spacing, timing, and guessing in order to punish it. If you read some one who is trying to punish your next d-air(Which isn't hard to do since they're obviously trying to hit you since you're camping them and you're usually in the lead in this situation) you can just tornado their attack
• forward roll, wtf was sakurai thinking? Why would a roll ever be fast then a spot dodge? Why would a roll ever be made almost impossible to react to?

I could go on...



@Noid: was the disadvantages thing supposed to be pointed at Omni?

 

[Seagull Joe]

who needs airspeed when u have stupid dumb priority?

meteor cancel sucks huh? well jus uair to avoid it...

grab release? why are u getting grabbed? ur MK Dair camp/frame trap people...

I'm not argueing semantics. I'm just stating the weaknesses and strengths to . If those weaknesses aren't amazingly exploitable then great, but they still exist nonetheless.

 

[Omni]

okay so in your opinion, in order for a character to be broken a horrible player has to be able to win with him? That's one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.

It is a stupid argument; that's why I didn't make it.

Mk requires certain skills like spacing and reaction time in certain cases. I said that because of his options he doesn't need to read his opponent for the most part. ( IE. Me and Vinnie always beat you with GW and then you learned the match up and it was easy for you.)

Actually, you didn't always beat me. I use to always beat you. Vinnie and I never played before that tournament so he didn't always use to beat me. After losing to you like twice in a row I studied our matches and watched how I kept putting myself open. Then realized G&W sucks if you just space him out.

It was easy for me in particular because MK has as really good match-up against G&W.

It's like for every option a character has against you you have 3 options that beat it. I'm over here with GW and every thing I'm doing against you is a guess/read since you can beat all of them. You as MK just sit back and react to what I do, no reads necessary.

Think about it,

• you have a shoryuken that has to be seen coming in order to punish it. Just baiting it isn't enough. it cancels so fast that reacting to it is nearly impossible. Your shoryuken is so big that almost any move no matter how well space will be hit by this shoryuken out of shield.
• You have a multi-hit move that has more priority then almost every other move in the game. You can move around vertically and horizontally with said move. If at the right height this move autocancels perfectly when you land on the ground. This move also eats shields to the point where it shield pokes some characters when they have fresh shields. If you're using this move on some one's shield and you autocancel it you can cross them up on the left or right side to avoid a punish. if your opponent gets hit by this move it sets up for almost impossible to avoid frame traps.
• you're down and f-tilt come out as fast as jabs but are nearly twice the length of said jabs. Since none of you're moves clank and you have the biggest hitboxes your moves almost always win when they trade.
• D-tilt is so fast that it isn't possible to react to just one hit of it, you have to read it.
• F-tilt has 3 hits so even if you space it wrong on shield you get a 50/50 mix up with the 3rd hit where you can either catch your opponent dropping shield and hit him with the 3rd hit or catch him staying in shield too long and grab him. (Yes I know this is a read)
• u-air and d-air beat almost every other aerial in the game and they're quick so even if you do mess up you get a second chance. In order for an opponent to beat a d-airing mk they have to read the d-air and hit the mk right when the d-air hitbox is over. So they need perfect spacing, timing, and guessing in order to punish it. If you read some one who is trying to punish your next d-air(Which isn't hard to do since they're obviously trying to hit you since you're camping them and you're usually in the lead in this situation) you can just tornado their attack
• forward roll, wtf was sakurai thinking? Why would a roll ever be fast then a spot dodge? Why would a roll ever be made almost impossible to react to?

I could go on...

What's your point? G&W sucks against MK and MK is really good. I never said any of these things weren't true.

 

[GimR]

It is a stupid argument; that's why I didn't make it.

The argument was implied with your previous statement. If it wasn't why would you basically ask, "If mk is so broken why are there lesser players who main MK that never did well with him?". That implies that in order for a character to be broken then everyone should be able to be good with him. Some people don't learn match ups. Thus they are bad.

Actually, you didn't always beat me. I use to always beat you. Vinnie and I never played before that tournament so he didn't always use to beat me.

You're right about vinnie. My bad.

We've only played 5 times in tournament. You've won 3 I've won 2. The first time you beat me was like 6 months after the game came out so I'd say we're actually 2 and 2. So no, you did not use to always beat me.

After losing to you like twice in a row I studied our matches and watched how I kept putting myself open. Then realized G&W sucks if you just space him out.

yeah, the same can basically be applied to most every match up that MK has besides the ditto and a couple top tiers. You never do what M2K does though. Try it once. get the lead on smashville and then start scrooging the platform back and forth under smashville. force your opponent to approach you in a ridiculous fashion. You won't lose... unless you try this against Falco.

 

[SuperSayianRenan]

Pros- He has tons of disjointed moves, many options, multiple recoveries, and multiple punishers.

Cons- Bad airspeed, lightweight, a bad grab release from a lot of characters, and one of the worst meteor cancels.

But I could do this for every character lol.

Joe he was tryig to say which out weigh eachother.... And by the pros you gave comared to the cons .... Mk is broken

Most lethal thing about mk on your pro list is his many options.

 

[NO-IDea]

Yeah GIMR, it was directed to Omni.

I don't even know what kind of argument Omni is presenting. It sounds more like Omni can't control the meaning of the posts he makes.

Also, gtfo @ your Falco statement. We all know Falco doesn't have the tools either.

 

[Omni]

The argument was implied with your previous statement. If it wasn't why would you basically ask, "If mk is so broken why are there lesser players who main MK that never did well with him?". That implies that in order for a character to be broken then everyone should be able to be good with him. Some people don't learn match ups. Thus they are bad.

No. I'm specifically stating that player skill is directly involved with character dominance. I'm not touching anything regarding MK being broken. That argument is so out-dated and opinionated that I've left it alone.

We've only played 5 times in tournament. You've won 3 I've won 2. The first time you beat me was like 6 months after the game came out so I'd say we're actually 2 and 2. So no, you did not use to always beat me.

Well, I beat G&W's. But okay, I concede to this.

yeah, the same can basically be applied to most every match up that MK has besides the ditto and a couple top tiers. You never do what M2K does though. Try it once. get the lead on smashville and then start scrooging the platform back and forth under smashville. force your opponent to approach you in a ridiculous fashion. You won't lose... unless you try this against Falco.

The argument is like saying get the lead with Jigglypuff and rising pound under FD. I agree that it's broken and it's ********. Which is why I like ledge rules. It's also why I like neutrals. Take out ledge rules and characters with ******** planking skills breaks certain match-ups.

I feel like we don't disagree on much. Just that our perspectives are a bit off.

 

[Kaffei]

you guys are still arguing about MK what the fk